Opinion of the 7800 vs 8bit

[+Stephen]

 

No offense, but I know full well what he was saying. I just disagree with it. Why do I get every single thing explained to me as if I didn't understand it when I disagree on something here?

Maybe because you are wrong.

Funny how it's always the same "two" people that come into a thread, and then the thread turns to shit.

[Divya16]

 

No offense, but I know full well what he was saying. I just disagree with it. Why do I get every single thing explained to me as if I didn't understand it when I disagree on something here?

Maybe because you are wrong.

Funny how it's always the same "two" people that come into a thread, and then the thread turns to shit.

 

 

What's so funny about something that's true. Ms. Pacman, Joust, and Robotron are better on Atari 800. Go play it and tell me why you think otherwise. I have free will to post and disagree according to my experience. Only one turning things into crap here is you. Go get a life and leave me alone. I am through with you idiot. I have put you on ignore with Appolloboy as well. Don't serve as his sidekick as he is dumber than you.

[BrianC]

 

No offense, but I know full well what he was saying. I just disagree with it. Why do I get every single thing explained to me as if I didn't understand it when I disagree on something here?

Maybe because you are wrong.

 

So I'm wrong because I don't agree that 7800 games are slow and choppy? Because I like the 7800 Centipede over the crappy 800 port with the slowdown glitch?

 

As for Ms. Pac-Man, I'm aware of the lack of Ms. Pac-Man slowing down when she eats dots in the 7800 one, but I disagree about it being "not that good". BTW, I didn't say which version I liked better (same with Joust), but I feel Ms. Pac-Man is a solid port with ghost AI close to the arcade. I haven't had a problem with turning in either version and I think that collision "issue" is just a carry over from the arcade. Some of the issues with the 7800 version were fixed with the 7800 Pac-Man Collection hack.

 

I just played Ms. Pac-man on 7800 and it not only doesn't slow down by eating dots but speeds up. You actually gain speed on the monsters. And in some levels, the monsters are suppose to catch up to you even when you don't eat dots. The AI is inferior on 7800 and both versions have inferior controls to pac-man on Atari 800. Robotron is also better on 8-bit and harder as 7800 seems to have more slowdowns when there's a lot of content on the screen. I guess you haven't played both versions as much as I have to notice the defects on the 7800. Joust is also better on Atari 800.

 

I mentioned certain games only because they are smooth on the 7800 and even said "I didn't say which is better".

So why am I still being told which games are better? BTW, I heard about the slowdown in Robotron 7800, but I didn't get far enough to notice. However, a lot is on screen when that happens and the 7800 still goes without slowdown for awhile when more is on screen than in the Atari 800 version. I don't know what to say on the Ms. Pac-Man AI, but there are multiple posts here from Pacmanplus, someone who knows a lot about the arcade version, saying that the AI is based on the arcade algorhythm (and I didn't comment on the AI in the 800, which is well done and close to the arcade). I'm going by my experience with the games, but as for Joust, though I haven't played it on 800 (I plan to get it and heard good things), I have played the 7800 one quite a bit and it certainly isn't choppy or slow (and I'm NOT out to prove which is better. My point is that it runs smooth on the 7800).

Edited January 22, 2011 by BrianC

[+Stephen]

What's so funny about something that's true. Ms. Pacman, Joust, and Robotron are better on Atari 800. Go play it and tell me why you think otherwise. I have free will to post and disagree according to my experience. Only one turning things into crap here is you. Go get a life and leave me alone. I am through with you idiot. I have put you on ignore with Appolloboy as well. Don't serve as his sidekick as he is dumber than you.

Sweet - I have graduated from envious snake to idiot and am now on ignore. A better solution would be to leave the board so everyone else doesn't have to ignore you.

[atariksi]

 

No offense, but I know full well what he was saying. I just disagree with it. Why do I get every single thing explained to me as if I didn't understand it when I disagree on something here?

Maybe because you are wrong.

 

So I'm wrong because I don't agree that 7800 games are slow and choppy? Because I like the 7800 Centipede over the crappy 800 port with the slowdown glitch?

In your post #20, you quoted someone who made several points besides smoothness which by itself is also subject to interpretation of what it means. He made point about sound, cripped Maria, etc. You're the one missing out on the glitches of Ms. Pac-man, Robotron, Joust, etc. I made a statement "in general" meaning you can still have some good smooth games for A7800. You have more flexibility in games like Robotron and Joust using linear graphics modes given the memory buffers available on A8. Char-based collisions aren't so good nor are software-based collisions better than hardware ones. So what glitch are you talking about Centipede or is this another one of your one-sided plays where you have yet to fully play on both platforms.

 

I mentioned certain games only because they are smooth on the 7800 and even said "I didn't say which is better".

So why am I still being told which games are better?

If you say "A7800 has more and is smoother" that's the same as saying that version if better. You implied it rather than state is explicitly.

 

BTW, I heard about the slowdown in Robotron 7800, but I didn't get far enough to notice. However, a lot is on screen when that happens and the 7800 still goes without slowdown for awhile when more is on screen than in the Atari 800 version. I don't know what to say on the Ms. Pac-Man AI, but there are multiple posts here from Pacmanplus, someone who knows a lot about the arcade version, saying that the AI is based on the arcade algorhythm (and I didn't comment on the AI in the 800, which is well done and close to the arcade). I'm going by my experience with the games, but as for Joust, though I haven't played it on 800 (I plan to get it and heard good things), I have played the 7800 one quite a bit and it certainly isn't choppy or slow (and I'm NOT out to prove which is better. My point is that it runs smooth on the 7800).

 

It doesn't matter what the arcade version is, but comparing A8 vs. A7800 the faster Ms. Pac-man throws off the AI as now you have an easier game. And then making the power pills last for such a short time doesn't make the AI any better but actually makes the "power pill" feature useless. Collisions are also part of smoothness along with other things. Having Joust eggs flying around as if they were on the moon isn't as good as having them with some solid gravity-- I guess that's an example of what he meant by the "physics is missing." It's the same with Ms. Pac-man. I would say both A8 and A7800 versions aren't that good although A8 version has less issues. The "lock-up" of the controls bug shows up unexpectedly here and there especially in later levels. The misaligned graphics cause bad turns on both versions when you are in faster moving levels.

[atariksi]

I think he's stating in general and technically that the Atari 7800 sucks in all respects except where you need tons of sprites and computation time isn't that big of an issue.

 

So you have this on A8 (image from Atarimania) :-

 

 

And this on the 7800 :-

 

 

Hmmm....

 

I haven't run either one but how do those screenshots show which is smoother, which sounds better, etc. I am pretty sure A7800 can produce better looking screenshots for games like King's Quest but I did say "unpaused" mode. As a general rule, the controls/collisions have higher priority over graphics and audio since if controls are bad or collisions are off, the other things don't make up for them.

[Cebus Capucinis]

Well, it's probably because the A8 has digital sticks (which have been scientifically proven to be better, remember!) whereas the 7800 has ---

 

Oh, wait.

 

I say get both! I play my 7800 all the time, and having backward compatibility with almost the entire 2600 library is awesome, but there are just SO many games on A8 that you won't see with plain consoles. I get a lot of use out of my 130XE playing games like Conan, Alternate Reality, and the like -- games you won't see anywhere else!

[atariksi]

You're asking this question from a gaming perspective, it seems to me. If you were asking from a broader perspective I'd say the 8bits are completely advantaged over the 7800 because they have apps and languages and computer capabilities in addition to games.

 

Even in a broad gaming perspective. the 8bits are advantaged, because in addition to cartridge games, you have the ability for keyboard-using and disk-based games, like text adventures and games too complex and large to fit in a cartridge's limited memory capacity.

 

These are the reasons I never got a 7800, along with the sucky controller and sucky sound. The 7800 Expansion Module seeks to ameliorate some of the 7800 disadvantages over the 8-bit, but it's of course easier and obviously cheaper to get a $15 800XL. The 8-bit computer Donkey Kong and Star Raiders make them worth more than a 7800 to me, even without all the many other reasons.

Yeah, Donkey Kong is no contest win for Atari 400/800. But you can use the Atari 400/800 joystick with the Atari 7800 which is what I do. Backward compatibility with Atari 2600 is a nice thing about Atari 7800 as well but it's not backward compatible with Atari 5200 console so you got some superior chips in the Atari 5200/Atari 400 that didn't get incorporated in the Atari 7800.

[BrianC]

 

No offense, but I know full well what he was saying. I just disagree with it. Why do I get every single thing explained to me as if I didn't understand it when I disagree on something here?

Maybe because you are wrong.

 

So I'm wrong because I don't agree that 7800 games are slow and choppy? Because I like the 7800 Centipede over the crappy 800 port with the slowdown glitch?

In your post #20, you quoted someone who made several points besides smoothness which by itself is also subject to interpretation of what it means. He made point about sound, cripped Maria, etc. You're the one missing out on the glitches of Ms. Pac-man, Robotron, Joust, etc. I made a statement "in general" meaning you can still have some good smooth games for A7800. You have more flexibility in games like Robotron and Joust using linear graphics modes given the memory buffers available on A8. Char-based collisions aren't so good nor are software-based collisions better than hardware ones. So what glitch are you talking about Centipede or is this another one of your one-sided plays where you have yet to fully play on both platforms.

 

I agree the sound is crap. Why do I need to comment on that? I need to comment on every one of his points I disagree with? He pretty much bashed the 7800 hardware with innaccurrate comments about the games having poor physics and animation. He also said all this was fact rather than opinion, which is part of why I posted (but when I post people always talk to me as if I'm not posting opinion. What the heck?). Missing out on glitches? I'm aware of Joust having different physics and animation from the original, but the action is still fluid and it still controls well. And I'm getting all this one sided crap that doesn't even listen to my posts simply because I like the game, even when I said I wasn't comparing it? As for Centipede, the action moves slower when you hold down the fire button. I thought it was common knowledge, yet you refuse to check for youself and throw this crap at me? Not to mention that the 800 Centipede is a game with a lot of negative buzz and I'm being questioned for saying something negative about it? Also, everything positive I said about the 800 was ignored simply becuase my opinions seem odd. That is completely messed up.

 

I mentioned certain games only because they are smooth on the 7800 and even said "I didn't say which is better".

So why am I still being told which games are better?

If you say "A7800 has more and is smoother" that's the same as saying that version if better. You implied it rather than state is explicitly.

 

Misquote. I said the 7800 Robotron has more on screen, as in more enemies on screen, and is smoother. I wasn't taking the 7800's slowdown (and I got to about level 20 or 30 on advanced and didn't notice the slowdown) into account, but it's slowdown with a lot on screen vs. no slowdown with less on screen. I need to play the 800 one to decide for sure, but the bigger sprites and what I tried and saw and videos doesn't convice me that it's objectively better.

 

It doesn't matter what the arcade version is, but comparing A8 vs. A7800 the faster Ms. Pac-man throws off the AI as now you have an easier game. And then making the power pills last for such a short time doesn't make the AI any better but actually makes the "power pill" feature useless. Collisions are also part of smoothness along with other things. Having Joust eggs flying around as if they were on the moon isn't as good as having them with some solid gravity-- I guess that's an example of what he meant by the "physics is missing." It's the same with Ms. Pac-man. I would say both A8 and A7800 versions aren't that good although A8 version has less issues. The "lock-up" of the controls bug shows up unexpectedly here and there especially in later levels. The misaligned graphics cause bad turns on both versions when you are in faster moving levels.

 

I played both quite a bit on real hardware and never noticed the Ms. Pac-Man bug. Not saying it isn't there, but it's not doing me much good when people are giving me "yeah right" posts instead of talking TO me. I did notice the lack of dot slow down makes the game somewhat easier, but compared to other Ms. Pac-Man versions (not the 800), the AI is still better. I'm aware of another bug where one of the ghosts slows down instead of speeds up, but I didn't mention it since I didn't expect these annoying internet assumptions to arise from it. As for the power pill, I think the 7800 pill behavior is closer to the arcade (I remember the 800 versio. having longer pill times than the arcade), though that doesn't prove which is better, I doubt this was done to compensate for the lack of slowing down (pacmanplus stated that the lack of dot slowdown is a glitch due to a programming mistake).

Edited January 23, 2011 by BrianC

[DracIsBack]

Oh gawd

 

With all due respect, having this thread in the A8 and the 7800 forums seems like an attempt to provoke a cross-forum flame war. As I wrote in the 7800 forum as well, how about we all take a deep ole' breath and spend the afternoon playing fun games on our 7800s and A8's?

 

Egad ....

 

Meanwhile, on good ole Drac's TV ...

Edited January 23, 2011 by DracIsBack

[Tubular Gearhead]

With all due respect, having this thread in the A8 and the 7800 forums seems like an attempt to provoke a cross-forum flame war. As I wrote in the 7800 forum as well, how about we all take a deep ole' breath and spend the afternoon playing fun games on our 7800s and A8's?

 

+1 I second the motion. I have both, love both, play both.

[Ransom]

Why limit yourself? That's my philosophy.

 

But I must say I struggle with some of the systems I own, asking myself whether buying them was worth it. The 7800 is one, just because I enjoy so few games on it -- and the ones I do enjoy are available on multiple other platforms (although they're really nice on the 7800). I'm hoping some good exclusive titles will be created once the XM's been out for a while.

[+Stephen]

With all due respect, having this thread in the A8 and the 7800 forums seems like an attempt to provoke a cross-forum flame war. As I wrote in the 7800 forum as well, how about we all take a deep ole' breath and spend the afternoon playing fun games on our 7800s and A8's?

 

+1 I second the motion. I have both, love both, play both.

I'll third that. I have every Atari console made from the Atari Video Music through the Jaguar CD (all of the pre-2600 stuff like Touch Me, Stunt Cycle, Video Pinball). It was easier to just grab everything rather than try to decide

[atariksi]

 

No offense, but I know full well what he was saying. I just disagree with it. Why do I get every single thing explained to me as if I didn't understand it when I disagree on something here?

Maybe because you are wrong.

 

So I'm wrong because I don't agree that 7800 games are slow and choppy? Because I like the 7800 Centipede over the crappy 800 port with the slowdown glitch?

In your post #20, you quoted someone who made several points besides smoothness which by itself is also subject to interpretation of what it means. He made point about sound, cripped Maria, etc. You're the one missing out on the glitches of Ms. Pac-man, Robotron, Joust, etc. I made a statement "in general" meaning you can still have some good smooth games for A7800. You have more flexibility in games like Robotron and Joust using linear graphics modes given the memory buffers available on A8. Char-based collisions aren't so good nor are software-based collisions better than hardware ones. So what glitch are you talking about Centipede or is this another one of your one-sided plays where you have yet to fully play on both platforms.

 

I agree the sound is crap. Why do I need to comment on that? I need to comment on every one of his points I disagree with?

You're not making any sense. If you say you disagree that means you disagree with his points unless you specify explicity that you disagree with something specific.

 

He pretty much bashed the 7800 hardware with innaccurrate comments about the games having poor physics and animation. He also said all this was fact rather than opinion, which is part of why I posted (but when I post people always talk to me as if I'm not posting opinion. What the heck?). Missing out on glitches? I'm aware of Joust having different physics and animation from the original, but the action is still fluid and it still controls well. And I'm getting all this one sided crap that doesn't even listen to my posts simply because I like the game, even when I said I wasn't comparing it?

You can like whatever you want but then people have the right to disagree with you especially if it's true.

 

As for Centipede, the action moves slower when you hold down the fire button. I thought it was common knowledge, yet you refuse to check for youself and throw this crap at me? Not to mention that the 800 Centipede is a game with a lot of negative buzz and I'm being questioned for saying something negative about it? Also, everything positive I said about the 800 was ignored simply becuase my opinions seem odd. That is completely messed up.

Again, you aren't making any sense. Centipede is pretty good on both systems. Maybe you have the versions mixed up as there are two versions I have seen of Centipede on Atari 800.

 

I mentioned certain games only because they are smooth on the 7800 and even said "I didn't say which is better".

So why am I still being told which games are better?

If you say "A7800 has more and is smoother" that's the same as saying that version if better. You implied it rather than state is explicitly.

 

Misquote. I said the 7800 Robotron has more on screen, as in more enemies on screen, and is smoother. I wasn't taking the 7800's slowdown (and I got to about level 20 or 30 on advanced and didn't notice the slowdown) into account, but it's slowdown with a lot on screen vs. no slowdown with less on screen. I need to play the 800 one to decide for sure, but the bigger sprites and what I tried and saw and videos doesn't convice me that it's objectively better.

It's not a misquote. It's what you said-- you wrote Centipede is crap and still claim "I am not making a preference as to which is better." Before your started arguing a particular game, you should play both versions. I.e., don't comment on Joust nor Robotron. I'll just say it in general and by playing you can figure out for yourself how Robotron is not as good on Atari 7800 as it is on Atari 800.

 

It doesn't matter what the arcade version is, but comparing A8 vs. A7800 the faster Ms. Pac-man throws off the AI as now you have an easier game. And then making the power pills last for such a short time doesn't make the AI any better but actually makes the "power pill" feature useless. Collisions are also part of smoothness along with other things. Having Joust eggs flying around as if they were on the moon isn't as good as having them with some solid gravity-- I guess that's an example of what he meant by the "physics is missing." It's the same with Ms. Pac-man. I would say both A8 and A7800 versions aren't that good although A8 version has less issues. The "lock-up" of the controls bug shows up unexpectedly here and there especially in later levels. The misaligned graphics cause bad turns on both versions when you are in faster moving levels.

 

I played both quite a bit on real hardware and never noticed the Ms. Pac-Man bug. Not saying it isn't there, but it's not doing me much good when people are giving me "yeah right" posts instead of talking TO me. I did notice the lack of dot slow down makes the game somewhat easier, but compared to other Ms. Pac-Man versions (not the 800), the AI is still better. I'm aware of another bug where one of the ghosts slows down instead of speeds up, but I didn't mention it since I didn't expect these annoying internet assumptions to arise from it. As for the power pill, I think the 7800 pill behavior is closer to the arcade (I remember the 800 versio. having longer pill times than the arcade), though that doesn't prove which is better, I doubt this was done to compensate for the lack of slowing down (pacmanplus stated that the lack of dot slowdown is a glitch due to a programming mistake).

 

I don't care about the arcade version-- what makes a good game is what I'm all about here. To have a power pill last about 2 seconds (in later levels) is pretty much useless. Graphics look better on Atari 800 as well (that's what I meant by "crisp").

[Charlie_]

I like Joust and Robotron better on the 7800. However there is just not enough great 7800 games to keep the thing hooked up. Mine is in a box and it comes out maybe once a year. I have most all the games and I look them over and remember why I keep this system in a box.

 

The A8/5200 are much better game systems. If you look at the back of a XEGS box its like looking at the "best of" for the 7800. Get an A8 and sio2pc cable and you have thousands of games to play.

 

Do we have to put a IMO disclaimer to every post we make?

[atariksi]

I would grab an 800xl and get the AtariMax programmer. What a great combo.

Thanks. I was going to ask what XL computer do you guys think I should go with. I like the top loading design of the 800XL but also like the 1200XL for some reason. which of the two would you pick.

 

1200XL is huge so if you want to carry it around or have little desktop space, I would go for the 800XL.

[BrianC]

 

No offense, but I know full well what he was saying. I just disagree with it. Why do I get every single thing explained to me as if I didn't understand it when I disagree on something here?

Maybe because you are wrong.

 

So I'm wrong because I don't agree that 7800 games are slow and choppy? Because I like the 7800 Centipede over the crappy 800 port with the slowdown glitch?

In your post #20, you quoted someone who made several points besides smoothness which by itself is also subject to interpretation of what it means. He made point about sound, cripped Maria, etc. You're the one missing out on the glitches of Ms. Pac-man, Robotron, Joust, etc. I made a statement "in general" meaning you can still have some good smooth games for A7800. You have more flexibility in games like Robotron and Joust using linear graphics modes given the memory buffers available on A8. Char-based collisions aren't so good nor are software-based collisions better than hardware ones. So what glitch are you talking about Centipede or is this another one of your one-sided plays where you have yet to fully play on both platforms.

 

I agree the sound is crap. Why do I need to comment on that? I need to comment on every one of his points I disagree with?

You're not making any sense. If you say you disagree that means you disagree with his points unless you specify explicity that you disagree with something specific.

 

He pretty much bashed the 7800 hardware with innaccurrate comments about the games having poor physics and animation. He also said all this was fact rather than opinion, which is part of why I posted (but when I post people always talk to me as if I'm not posting opinion. What the heck?). Missing out on glitches? I'm aware of Joust having different physics and animation from the original, but the action is still fluid and it still controls well. And I'm getting all this one sided crap that doesn't even listen to my posts simply because I like the game, even when I said I wasn't comparing it?

You can like whatever you want but then people have the right to disagree with you especially if it's true.

 

As for Centipede, the action moves slower when you hold down the fire button. I thought it was common knowledge, yet you refuse to check for youself and throw this crap at me? Not to mention that the 800 Centipede is a game with a lot of negative buzz and I'm being questioned for saying something negative about it? Also, everything positive I said about the 800 was ignored simply becuase my opinions seem odd. That is completely messed up.

Again, you aren't making any sense. Centipede is pretty good on both systems. Maybe you have the versions mixed up as there are two versions I have seen of Centipede on Atari 800.

 

I mentioned certain games only because they are smooth on the 7800 and even said "I didn't say which is better".

So why am I still being told which games are better?

If you say "A7800 has more and is smoother" that's the same as saying that version if better. You implied it rather than state is explicitly.

 

Misquote. I said the 7800 Robotron has more on screen, as in more enemies on screen, and is smoother. I wasn't taking the 7800's slowdown (and I got to about level 20 or 30 on advanced and didn't notice the slowdown) into account, but it's slowdown with a lot on screen vs. no slowdown with less on screen. I need to play the 800 one to decide for sure, but the bigger sprites and what I tried and saw and videos doesn't convice me that it's objectively better.

It's not a misquote. It's what you said-- you wrote Centipede is crap and still claim "I am not making a preference as to which is better." Before your started arguing a particular game, you should play both versions. I.e., don't comment on Joust nor Robotron. I'll just say it in general and by playing you can figure out for yourself how Robotron is not as good on Atari 7800 as it is on Atari 800.

 

It doesn't matter what the arcade version is, but comparing A8 vs. A7800 the faster Ms. Pac-man throws off the AI as now you have an easier game. And then making the power pills last for such a short time doesn't make the AI any better but actually makes the "power pill" feature useless. Collisions are also part of smoothness along with other things. Having Joust eggs flying around as if they were on the moon isn't as good as having them with some solid gravity-- I guess that's an example of what he meant by the "physics is missing." It's the same with Ms. Pac-man. I would say both A8 and A7800 versions aren't that good although A8 version has less issues. The "lock-up" of the controls bug shows up unexpectedly here and there especially in later levels. The misaligned graphics cause bad turns on both versions when you are in faster moving levels.

 

I played both quite a bit on real hardware and never noticed the Ms. Pac-Man bug. Not saying it isn't there, but it's not doing me much good when people are giving me "yeah right" posts instead of talking TO me. I did notice the lack of dot slow down makes the game somewhat easier, but compared to other Ms. Pac-Man versions (not the 800), the AI is still better. I'm aware of another bug where one of the ghosts slows down instead of speeds up, but I didn't mention it since I didn't expect these annoying internet assumptions to arise from it. As for the power pill, I think the 7800 pill behavior is closer to the arcade (I remember the 800 versio. having longer pill times than the arcade), though that doesn't prove which is better, I doubt this was done to compensate for the lack of slowing down (pacmanplus stated that the lack of dot slowdown is a glitch due to a programming mistake).

 

I don't care about the arcade version-- what makes a good game is what I'm all about here. To have a power pill last about 2 seconds (in later levels) is pretty much useless. Graphics look better on Atari 800 as well (that's what I meant by "crisp").

 

ugh. Now you are just arguing semantics. I was purposely non specific when I said I disagreed and you only assumed that I included the sound with that. I compared both Centipede games becaused I played them both (and if you checked, you would see that the most common official 800 version slows down the game when you press the fire button), and I of course meant I was not comparing the games I haven't played (and robotron was impressions of what I have seen and heard from reliable sources). Robotron wasn't a full blown comparison and Joust I felt plays smooth and fast. I'm sorry if you can't accept that I can still find some things about about some games without fully playing them and that I can give a valid impression of just the 7800 Joust without a comparison since I played it quite a bit. I played Joust and Robotron both quite a bit on 7800, and Robotron 800 I played via emu and seen in action (and I still plan to pick it up, BTW. I buy games to play them). 7800 Robotron pushes more sprites on screen, which is important in a comparison, and something you would see if you checked both games. Also, telling me the arcade is useless is just plain rude. It's the original version of the game and the differences from the arcade version as well as how true the game is to the original can affect the quality of the port.

 

I have no problem with your opinion, what I have a problem with is that you can't respect others opinions. The first poster stated opinion as fact, BTW. I find this argument rather silly. If you can't respect my opinion or trust what I say, please put me on ignore. I'm not good at explaining things any every attempt to do so resulted in this silly argument.

Edited January 24, 2011 by BrianC

[Mirage]

As a founding member of the Envious Snake Club, this is just a token post to make sure I get in on the ground floor of this new venture.

[atarian63]

Pac man collection mad me love my 7800 again! Tempest Extreme give love on the 8-bit XL/XE!

[kool kitty89]

Oh gawd

 

With all due respect, having this thread in the A8 and the 7800 forums seems like an attempt to provoke a cross-forum flame war. As I wrote in the 7800 forum as well, how about we all take a deep ole' breath and spend the afternoon playing fun games on our 7800s and A8's?

 

Egad ....

 

Meanwhile, on good ole Drac's TV ...

Yeah, the topic wasn't about which is better (technically), but whether someone should have one or both and some other variables.

 

If you go on the technical level there's miles of trade-offs with both (the 7800's hardware is technically newer, more efficient, and more advanced, but also crippled by the low-cost requirement for the design and being frozen for production in early 1984 -albeit there's some odd design trade-offs that you could argue shouldn't have been made, even without hindsight -with hindsight of the 1986 release there's obviously tons of modifications that could have been made and still retained very low cost and compatibility). Not nearly as straightforward as the 5200 where the technical capabilities are virtually identical. (other than the closed architecture of the 5200 -even the stock controller issues can be bypassed with low-precision analog joysticks using pull-up resistors for pseudo 8-way control -with 8 analog states fallign within the acceptable ranges for games assumign full-throw pot based controllers, better buttons, etc, or better quality high precision analog stick -I'm leaving it at that as I don't want to start the digital vs analog crap again and the 5200 comment was off topic anyway )

 

 

Then there's the real-world side for the existing libraries and homebrew support, the 7800 has many fewer games but quite a few that are very notable and/or exclusive (or absent from the A8) and better than the A8 version (or different enough to merit both versions). Though it also depends on your preferred genres and if you care for the convenience of having built-in 2600 support with better placement of the joysticks as well. And that's what the topic was about before it got derailed. (and even if you did favor the A8 you'd have to determine the model preferred as well 800/400 with 4 ports and only up to 48k -normally and iirc 64k+ mods aren't compatible with the MMU scheme later used- vs the added RAM and compact form factor of some later models but lack of the 4 ports a handful of programs take advantage of)

[ATARI7800fan]

Oh gawd

 

With all due respect, having this thread in the A8 and the 7800 forums seems like an attempt to provoke a cross-forum flame war. As I wrote in the 7800 forum as well, how about we all take a deep ole' breath and spend the afternoon playing fun games on our 7800s and A8's?

 

Egad ....

 

Meanwhile, on good ole Drac's TV ...

Yeah, the topic wasn't about which is better (technically), but whether someone should have one or both and some other variables.

 

If you go on the technical level there's miles of trade-offs with both (the 7800's hardware is technically newer, more efficient, and more advanced, but also crippled by the low-cost requirement for the design and being frozen for production in early 1984 -albeit there's some odd design trade-offs that you could argue shouldn't have been made, even without hindsight -with hindsight of the 1986 release there's obviously tons of modifications that could have been made and still retained very low cost and compatibility). Not nearly as straightforward as the 5200 where the technical capabilities are virtually identical. (other than the closed architecture of the 5200 -even the stock controller issues can be bypassed with low-precision analog joysticks using pull-up resistors for pseudo 8-way control -with 8 analog states fallign within the acceptable ranges for games assumign full-throw pot based controllers, better buttons, etc, or better quality high precision analog stick -I'm leaving it at that as I don't want to start the digital vs analog crap again and the 5200 comment was off topic anyway )

 

 

Then there's the real-world side for the existing libraries and homebrew support, the 7800 has many fewer games but quite a few that are very notable and/or exclusive (or absent from the A8) and better than the A8 version (or different enough to merit both versions). Though it also depends on your preferred genres and if you care for the convenience of having built-in 2600 support with better placement of the joysticks as well. And that's what the topic was about before it got derailed. (and even if you did favor the A8 you'd have to determine the model preferred as well 800/400 with 4 ports and only up to 48k -normally and iirc 64k+ mods aren't compatible with the MMU scheme later used- vs the added RAM and compact form factor of some later models but lack of the 4 ports a handful of programs take advantage of)

 

Sorry about that guys. I did not think people would go so overkill when I posted this thread. Just wanted some opinions on the systems from people that have owned them.

[Divya16]

Oh gawd

 

With all due respect, having this thread in the A8 and the 7800 forums seems like an attempt to provoke a cross-forum flame war. As I wrote in the 7800 forum as well, how about we all take a deep ole' breath and spend the afternoon playing fun games on our 7800s and A8's?

 

Egad ....

 

Meanwhile, on good ole Drac's TV ...

Yeah, the topic wasn't about which is better (technically), but whether someone should have one or both and some other variables.

You should really read the thread before commenting. We aren't talking about technical sides of the systems but about various implemented games and their flaws which is relevant to the topic. On the contrary, it's you who are talking off-topic and erroneously:

 

If you go on the technical level there's miles of trade-offs with both (the 7800's hardware is technically newer, more efficient, and more advanced, but also crippled by the low-cost requirement for the design and being frozen for production in early 1984 -albeit there's some odd design trade-offs ...

Their sound chip is from Atari 2600 if you care to note. Their graphics chip is crippled due to less RAM and has same amount of colors as Atari 800. Their I/O system and OS is bare bones. Etc. Etc.

 

...or better quality high precision analog stick -I'm leaving it at that as I don't want to start the digital vs analog crap again and the 5200 comment was off topic anyway )

 

So you admit you are trying to derail the subject.

 

Then there's the real-world side for the existing libraries and homebrew support, the 7800 has many fewer games but quite a few that are very notable and/or exclusive (or absent from the A8) and better than the A8 version (or different enough to merit both versions).

 

So you aren't sure whether they are different or better, but its just your opinion anyway as lacking a frame buffer and RAM restricts the system to the games getting ported from A8. And if you cared to play some, you can clearly see some games are inferior on Atari 7800 and I don't just mean the sounds.

[kool kitty89]

Sorry about that guys. I did not think people would go so overkill when I posted this thread. Just wanted some opinions on the systems from people that have owned them.

And I think that's been mostly answered: there's plenty of reasons to get both (A8 wins in sheer quantity of games obviously, but that's just one factor). The best way to get an idea of which you'd prefer is to look around at the games available (lists, videos, reviews, emulators, etc) and how those cater to your tastes. Then there's things like shelf space and stock controllers (and whether you're willing to buy alternate controllers), price/availability of games, interest in using peripherals on the A8 (disk/tape/SIO-to-PC/etc), etc.

 

If you can afford to get both, all the better, but otherwise you should definitely look around and try things out (via emulation if nothing else) before any final decision.

 

You obviously already have a good amount of experience (and investments) in the 7800, and I'd tend to agree with many of the posts suggesting you keep the 7800 regardless of deciding to get an A8. (it sounds like you don't have a 5200 either, and it would almost certainly be better to go with an A8 over that -a few games that weren't officially released on the A8 but were on the 5200 and a few that have better control schemes -mainly 2 buttons, but a handful with good use of analog joysick control, but overall the A8 should be far less of a hassle: easier/cheaper to find, more software due to the longer lifespan, more reliable -especially the RF box issue on the 5200, more compact -save for the 800, better stock controllers for almost all games officially released, etc -but it sounds like you've already got the A8 as a higher priority anyway, so that argument is a bit unnecessary)

 

 

 

 

I haven't played Food Fight on both systems, but Joust and Robotron are a win for Atari 400/800. Robotron is too slow and easier on 7800. Joust looks terrible (when unpaused) on the 7800 and sloppy in collision detection. I guess that's what he was trying to get to with better playability.

What makes joust better? It looks and sounds great on the 7800 (many of the sounds are closer to the arcade -very nice use of TIA there, not surprising given it's pretty competitive with POKEY for SFX -can even do things POKEY can't- and especially since those Willaims 6809 board arcade games only ever used 1 channel sound; the graphics definitely are more like the Arcade too).

 

You also seem to ignore the difficulty settings on Robotron... the higher difficulties push it up close to the arcade level of harsh difficulty and the game is far closer to the arcade without the heavily cut-down and stretched-out sprite (soft sprites I think) of the 5200/A8 version. (way less going on on-screen because of that) Again, the sound is also fairly competitive if not ahead in some areas. (again, the circumstances favor TIA due to only 1 sound channel being needed)

 

 

 

I just played Ms. Pac-man on 7800 and it not only doesn't slow down by eating dots but speeds up. You actually gain speed on the monsters. And in some levels, the monsters are suppose to catch up to you even when you don't eat dots. The AI is inferior on 7800 and both versions have inferior controls to pac-man on Atari 800. Robotron is also better on 8-bit and harder as 7800 seems to have more slowdowns when there's a lot of content on the screen. I guess you haven't played both versions as much as I have to notice the defects on the 7800. Joust is also better on Atari 800.

That does seem odd... have you compared all possible configurations of both versions as well as the arcade game. (would seem especially odd since GCC programmed the 7800 version and not only knew the hardware well -as they designed it- but they also designed/programmed Ms. Pac Man as well -or rather Crazy Otto which then got swapped graphics for Ms Pac Man by Midway)

 

 

In any case, the ONLY reason to play any of the above 3 games on the 7800 or A8 is for the nuances of those specific/unique versions (and nostalgia for any who owned them years ago). You can easily get arcade perfect versions of the Williams games (and Ms Pac man among others) for a variety of other systems or use direct emulation of the arcade games. (and some console ports add other unique features missing from the arcade and A8/7800 versions -like the added levels and co-op modes on the Genesis version of Ms Pac Man)

 

 

 

 

Also, some video issues may by on the analog side, not digital/inherent hardware issues. Unless you've modded the 7800 for composite output, the RF will be a weakness (especially dependent on the quality of the modulator in your specific system and the TV being used), but also reduced quality due to intentionally weakening the MARIA video signal along with the TIA one for the mixed video output (since there's no switch they must both be enabled and mixed together). The latter issue is easily fixed by adjusting the pots on the motherboard, but without correspondingly adding a switch to toggle between 7800 and 2600 video you'll have an unstable picture for one or both modes. (you could turn down the TIA pot and turn up the MARIA one for good 7800 video alone and no switch)

Edited January 24, 2011 by kool kitty89

[atariksi]

Oh gawd

 

With all due respect, having this thread in the A8 and the 7800 forums seems like an attempt to provoke a cross-forum flame war. As I wrote in the 7800 forum as well, how about we all take a deep ole' breath and spend the afternoon playing fun games on our 7800s and A8's?

 

Egad ....

 

Meanwhile, on good ole Drac's TV ...

Yeah, the topic wasn't about which is better (technically), but whether someone should have one or both and some other variables.

 

...controller issues can be bypassed with low-precision analog joysticks using pull-up resistors for pseudo 8-way control -with 8 analog states fallign within the acceptable ranges for games assumign full-throw pot based controllers, better buttons, etc, or better quality high precision analog stick -I'm leaving it at that as I don't want to start the digital vs analog crap again and the 5200 comment was off topic anyway )

You can discuss A5200 controllers in the Atari 5200 forum as there's always some issues with those that spring up every other day or so. And digital vs. analog isn't crap. Opinions are crap like. Facts are reality. I am more interested in facts than opinions about things.

 

...convenience of having built-in 2600 support with better placement of the joysticks as well. And that's what the topic was about before it got derailed. (and even if you did favor the A8 you'd have to determine the model preferred as well 800/400 with 4 ports and only up to 48k -normally and iirc 64k+ mods aren't compatible with the MMU scheme later used- vs the added RAM and compact form factor of some later models but lack of the 4 ports a handful of programs take advantage of)

 

Topic is not derailed. Robotron for example is superior on the Atari 800. Why not try both and state some facts why you think otherwise rather than state opinions. Anyone can have an opinion and say anything. I think the moon is made of yellow cheese.

[atariksi]

As a founding member of the Envious Snake Club, this is just a token post to make sure I get in on the ground floor of this new venture.

 

Well, as long as you don't behave like an envious snake, I don't mind your posts.