142 replies to this topic

[therealbountybob]

I did write to the moderator but I wanted to make my thoughts public…

I love my atari and this forum and have done my best to support it and help out atari users where I can. I have moderated the 8-bit High Score Club for a couple of years. I have no personal connection to the people concerned here. I have not read all the posts and am not fully aware of all the comments and history but these are based on what I have seen over my time here…

Certain topic/thread types e.g. “a vs b” or “which is better…” are obviously going to be contentious. In others, especially of a technical nature (which seems to be where the issues arise), a change of tone can usually be detected and people can choose to back off. On this forum as in life there will be people who “push your buttons” in which case simply do not respond to their comments, this would prevent escalation.

If anyone makes an offensive remark then do not respond – report it to a forum moderator. Even advise a moderator if you think the topic should be closed before it gets to this stage and begin a new one.

It seems to me that people hold over general grudges from previous topics and these continue, I also feel that some amount of goading of certain individuals takes place.

An official warning (clearly explaining why a remark is unacceptable)  could be issued to anyone making offensive remarks. Then a suspension and/or a system of three strikes and you are out could be employed. If a person has genuinely caused offense then they could be give opportuninty to apologise.

In addition people should remember that some users are from different cultures and have different language skills, heck it’s sometimes easy to misinterpret the tone from either side of the Atlantic.

Atariksi has been very helpful to myself (and others) on many occasions with programming queries and such. He kindly donated a hardware prize for this season’s High Score Club. He has offered to supply hard to come by atari hardware and spares to others on this forum on several occassions and also his company produce products supporting the atari.

I share a computer with another atariage user and at times we post accidentally under each others names. If you are someone who posts many times a day (in many forums) and leaves their computer on you will post under the main logon, when the 2nd user then logs on to posts in the high score club etc this is then left on and used instead as it’s a pain to keep logging on and off and having to return to the forum/topic.

Atariksi and divya16 have been regular players (in several high score clubs) and have been polite and helpful throughout. Without regular players like these there is a strong possibility that these clubs may fold.

I can assure people that from their performances in the high score club they are two different people and should be considered as individuals.

I appreciate that for a moderator it may seem like loss of face to change a decision and they have much better things to do than deal with disputes, but I hope that my comments will be considered and these people can be given a second chance.

It saddens me to see Atari people removed from these great forums. If you broadly agree with my sentiments of an apology/suspension/warning/3 Strikes system then please click the + next to this post.

Best Regards
Jason

[doctorclu]

If Therealbountybob is making a pitch to give Atariksi and divya16 a second chance, I second that notion.

[NorthPole(heeHAW)]

i) He violated the terms of use.

ii) He was rubbing people up the wrong way intentionally.

iii) There are now threads and threads of just crap that are not of any use to anyone unless you have 20+ hours to sift through the diarrhoea that came from Atariksi/Divya.

I think it's perfectly logical to ban him for the above reasons plus countless others.

Aaron

Edited by NorthPole(heeHAW), Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:22 AM.

[andym00]

doctorclu, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:21 AM, said:

If Therealbountybob is making a pitch to give Atariksi and divya16 a second chance, I second that notion.

I sincerely third that.. Much as he reacts badly sometimes there are those that enjoy poking him with a stick to see what reaction they'll get.. I've had my disagreements with him in the past, but that doesn't alter the fact that I do hold him in a technical high regard.. It's a shame to see him booted for what was tantamount to a circle of people stood around poking a snake with a pointy stick and then complaining when they got bit.. Makes me a bit sad actually..

[sack-c0s]

If Therealbountybob is making a pitch to give Atariksi and divya16 a second chance, I offer my account as a replacement in the banlist.

They were told countless times, they took no notice. They moved over to threads that were perfectly healthy before their involvement and damn near killed them - although the 7800 one recovered quite nicely once they were ejected from it.

People like emkay can wind people up at times, but at least in their case it just  comes out of their enthusiasm and they are trying to progress things a bit with experiments and bits of code, music and graphics here and there so it's not really a bad thing. Atariksi and divya16 were just outright looking for a fight with no other motivation.

I'm thinking things are better without them and the forum is pretty much pointless with them because anything worth discussing (for example a potential weakness of the A8, or a new technique adapted from another platform which would involve, god forbid, *acknowlidging that it exists*) would stir up debate, which if done with an ounce of common sense can lead to people trying to prove/disprove/experiment with things and some good can come of it.

If you can't have those kinds of discussions then there's no point really.

[Stephen]

They had MANY chances to change their behavior.  They constantly attacked members here with personal insults.  Neither would ever admit fault.  They trolled many threads looking to start arguments.

I've been on this forum for nearly a decade and not once have I had an issue with anyone else.  It was not a personal vendetta against those two.  They simply cannot play well with others.  They are not capable of having a rational discussion.  They cannot accept the fact that people have different opinions.

Nobody on here needs to be called a "stupid idiot", "skunk", "envious snake" for disagreeing with an opinion.  The forum is a better place without them.

[Stephen]

andym00, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:58 AM, said:

doctorclu, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:21 AM, said:

If Therealbountybob is making a pitch to give Atariksi and divya16 a second chance, I second that notion.

I sincerely third that.. Much as he reacts badly sometimes there are those that enjoy poking him with a stick to see what reaction they'll get.. I've had my disagreements with him in the past, but that doesn't alter the fact that I do hold him in a technical high regard.. It's a shame to see him booted for what was tantamount to a circle of people stood around poking a snake with a pointy stick and then complaining when they got bit.. Makes me a bit sad actually..

It didn't take poking either of them with a stick to wind them up.  They start is consistently.  I do not need to walk on eggshells at a place I have frequented for a decade simply because someone has no people skills.  I also do not feel the need to hold back on discussions or sharing my opinion because I will be branded a "stupid idiot" for disagreeing with someone.

[The_Laird]

I agree with Stephen and Northpole - Divya16/Atariski is incredibly lucky to have not been banned already. The rap list reads like a guide to trolling.

[Stephen]

One more thing to point out.  Simply participating in a forum does not give one the right to stick around (or get preferential treatment).  Doug Engel (Thunderbird) worked his ASS off for years on the Jaguar game Battlesphere.  He contributed countless hours to assisting others with programming questions.  When a few people worked him up over copyright violations, arguments ensued and he was permanently banned.  He contributed WAY more to the Atari scene than atariksi/divya16 ever did.

Keep that in mind when trying to stir up sympathy for them.

[beamer320i]

As a relative newcomer to these forums (just under a year) I follow all threads 8-bit related and enjoy members banter and various/opposing points of view. However, any topic that has had posts by atariski/divya16 descends into chaos (in my humble opinion) and contributes nothing of value.  I, for one, am not shedding any tears, sorry.

[carmel_andrews]

Stephen, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:54 AM, said:

andym00, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:58 AM, said:

doctorclu, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:21 AM, said:

If Therealbountybob is making a pitch to give Atariksi and divya16 a second chance, I second that notion.

I sincerely third that.. Much as he reacts badly sometimes there are those that enjoy poking him with a stick to see what reaction they'll get.. I've had my disagreements with him in the past, but that doesn't alter the fact that I do hold him in a technical high regard.. It's a shame to see him booted for what was tantamount to a circle of people stood around poking a snake with a pointy stick and then complaining when they got bit.. Makes me a bit sad actually..

It didn't take poking either of them with a stick to wind them up.  They start is consistently.  I do not need to walk on eggshells at a place I have frequented for a decade simply because someone has no people skills.  I also do not feel the need to hold back on discussions or sharing my opinion because I will be branded a "stupid idiot" for disagreeing with someone.

What did you do with the eggs, i like mine scrambled between two slice of brown bread (j/k)

My 2p's worth, if you ain't going to listen to reason and listen and follow what others are saying (as well as accepting that others have an opinion and the right to express that view) then there is only one way that situation will end (as it has done)....Perhaps our two friends forgot that humans are born with 2 ears and a mouth and they to be used accordingly

[MEtalGuy66]

therealbountybob, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:06 AM, said:

I did write to the moderator but I wanted to make my thoughts public…

I love my atari and this forum and have done my best to support it and help out atari users where I can. I have moderated the 8-bit High Score Club for a couple of years. I have no personal connection to the people concerned here. I have not read all the posts and am not fully aware of all the comments and history but these are based on what I have seen over my time here…

Certain topic/thread types e.g. “a vs b” or “which is better…” are obviously going to be contentious. In others, especially of a technical nature (which seems to be where the issues arise), a change of tone can usually be detected and people can choose to back off. On this forum as in life there will be people who “push your buttons” in which case simply do not respond to their comments, this would prevent escalation.

If anyone makes an offensive remark then do not respond – report it to a forum moderator. Even advise a moderator if you think the topic should be closed before it gets to this stage and begin a new one.

It seems to me that people hold over general grudges from previous topics and these continue, I also feel that some amount of goading of certain individuals takes place.

An official warning (clearly explaining why a remark is unacceptable)  could be issued to anyone making offensive remarks. Then a suspension and/or a system of three strikes and you are out could be employed. If a person has genuinely caused offense then they could be give opportuninty to apologise.

In addition people should remember that some users are from different cultures and have different language skills, heck it’s sometimes easy to misinterpret the tone from either side of the Atlantic.

Atariksi has been very helpful to myself (and others) on many occasions with programming queries and such. He kindly donated a hardware prize for this season’s High Score Club. He has offered to supply hard to come by atari hardware and spares to others on this forum on several occassions and also his company produce products supporting the atari.

I share a computer with another atariage user and at times we post accidentally under each others names. If you are someone who posts many times a day (in many forums) and leaves their computer on you will post under the main logon, when the 2nd user then logs on to posts in the high score club etc this is then left on and used instead as it’s a pain to keep logging on and off and having to return to the forum/topic.

Atariksi and divya16 have been regular players (in several high score clubs) and have been polite and helpful throughout. Without regular players like these there is a strong possibility that these clubs may fold.

I can assure people that from their performances in the high score club they are two different people and should be considered as individuals.

I appreciate that for a moderator it may seem like loss of face to change a decision and they have much better things to do than deal with disputes, but I hope that my comments will be considered and these people can be given a second chance.

It saddens me to see Atari people removed from these great forums. If you broadly agree with my sentiments of an apology/suspension/warning/3 Strikes system then please click the + next to this post.

Best Regards
Jason

This is a bunch of driveling crap.. If I want to offend someone, its my right to do so.. And that person should take it up with ME not the forum moderator..

If I repeatedly piss off EVERYONE, at every possible opportunity, like Atarski/Divya16 did (They really ARE the same person) then I deserve to be banned. I don't want him back, and niether does anyone else on this forum who's worth keeping.. If you want to go hang out with him, do it on another forum.. He's on PLENTY of them..

Albert runs this forum, and his decision to Ban Atarski was not one that was made lightly. This is after MONTHS of people complaining about his abuse of the forum, worthless waste of space with his off-topic and often meaningless posts, and MANY MANY people complaining about his use of dual accounts.

If you don't like it, then that's just tuff-sh!t for you.. This place is not going to become a steaming pile of socialist crap resembling what the liberal human garbage is trying to do to this country..

Be a man.. Stand up for your actions, and accept the consequences of them. And if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!

[JayWI]

MEtalGuy66, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:07 AM, said:

If you don't like it, then that's just tuff-sh!t for you.. This place is not going to become a steaming pile of socialist crap resembling what the liberal human garbage is trying to do to this country..

[orpheuswaking]

therealbountybob, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:06 AM, said:

I have not read all the posts and am not fully aware of all the comments and history

I think this is why you don't realize just how disruptive they have been in the last six months. In the HSC area they are fine, but otherwise they have been nothing but trouble.

[Stephen]

LMAO - I think the Texas heat has fried your brain MG.  Maybe you need to come north and chill in the lovely Ohio snow

[PingvinBlueJeans]

atariksi & Divya16 were the same person?  Color me shocked!  

MEtalGuy66, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:07 AM, said:

Albert runs this forum, and his decision to Ban Atarski was not one that was made lightly. This is after MONTHS of people complaining about his abuse of the forum, worthless waste of space with his off-topic and often meaningless posts, and MANY MANY people complaining about his use of dual accounts.

Indeed.  He would've been banned ages ago on just about any other site.  You have to really try to get banned here.

The dual accounts thing was the icing on the cake.  He often responded to his own posts and even posted high scores in the HSC using both accounts in an effort to appear to be different people.  There's simply no place here for that kind of dishonesty.  What's really baffling is that he apparently expected to get away with it.  

[Hatta]

Atariski's gone?

Never understood why people participated in those threads.

[Mclaneinc]

I support a proper system towards a ban and I suggest a better use of the ignore options in the profile but I don't think anyone has the right on a public forum to hurl abuse, you need to do that then PM the person.

There's nothing more annoying than trolling jibes at people, you don't like them then ignore them. If you post the jibes simply because you like to do it then just clear off and join an abuse forum. Sorry Metalguy, I don't agree you have the right to abuse someone just because you love free speech, I liken it to youths on the bus while I'm taking my daughter home from school, potty mouthing away like anything, generally being aggressive so I tell them to shut up and remember there are other people around who don't want to hear.

If that's classed as stopping someone's freedom of expression then the worlds going mad, with a mouth and a brain comes responsibility, lets use them wisely please.

[andym00]

Stephen, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:10 AM, said:

One more thing to point out.  Simply participating in a forum does not give one the right to stick around (or get preferential treatment).  Doug Engel (Thunderbird) worked his ASS off for years on the Jaguar game Battlesphere.  He contributed countless hours to assisting others with programming questions.  When a few people worked him up over copyright violations, arguments ensued and he was permanently banned.  He contributed WAY more to the Atari scene than atariksi/divya16 ever did.

Keep that in mind when trying to stir up sympathy for them.

lol, really I don't care what happened before.. The point is simply that I think this particular circumstance was deliberately escalated and pursued to its inevitable conclusion.. It was fox hunt, nothing more, nothing less..

[MEtalGuy66]

andym00, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:22 AM, said:

lol, really I don't care what happened before..

Then your oppinion is not relavant to the situation.

Quote

The point is simply that I think this particular circumstance was deliberately escalated and pursued to its inevitable conclusion.. It was fox hunt, nothing more, nothing less..

Deliberately? By who? By 20+ people? on 10+ threads spread across the whole forum site, over a year's time!?!?!  These people just happened to decide to single out Atariksi and conspire to get him banned??

Ive been on this forum for many years. and Im sorry.. Either you haven't, or you don't live in the same reality I do..

Atariksi/Divya16 was not banned as the result of a single "particular" isolated incident.. There is such a thing as cumulativity (or woul accumulation be more correct?)..  There is also such thing as "the final straw" or "The straw that broke the Camel's back"..

Edited by MEtalGuy66, Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:54 AM.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Anyone who is banned is banned for a reason. If people are going to keep second guessing and wanting to review the situation or vote against each banning then it holds no weight anymore. If you don't want to be banned it is simple, don't be an ass and follow the rules. To the OP, your intentions are good but you admit yourself you have not read the thread or are aware of all the reasons they were banned so then you should just trust the mods had reason enough to do so. All your suggestions on what to do, how to react and behave are fine and also well intentioned but it is not like people do not already know this, if someone get's baited into participating in a conflict they are well aware of what they are doing, people are not going to change. If someone is constantly being an ass, baiting others or fueling a conflict then I WANT THEM BANNED! It is a good hard lesson.

[The_Laird]

OMG A thread about the result of a flame war is turning into a flame war!  

The facts are that Atariski/Divya16 deserved to be banned a long time ago and anyone who dosn't agree hasn't bothered to look at the threads they were involved in.

[Random Terrain]

OldSchoolRetroGamer, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:58 AM, said:

If someone is constantly being an ass . . . I WANT THEM BANNED!

So you're the one who keeps asking Albert to ban me!   

OldSchoolRetroGamer, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:58 AM, said:

It is a good hard lesson.

*Insert boner joke here.*

[JamesD]

I didn't witness the latest brawl but I can't say I'm surprised at who was involved.
It's sad it had to come to a complete ban but atariksi had plenty of 2nd chances.  People constantly tried to get him to stop the personal attacks and tried to carry on reasonable discussions while no such effort came from him.  He was even banned from a thread but apparently that wasn't enough to change his behavior as he posted in the very thread with a sockpuppet (Divya16) immediately after the ban... which is pretty much thumbing your nose at the admin.  
He brought it on himself and would have been banned long ago on some other boards.
Not gonna miss him at all.

[ApolloBoy]

Sure, atariksi/Divya16 may have contributed to the HSC and helped get people some nice A8 stuff, but that still doesn't excuse what he's done. Even if he was somehow given a second chance, he'd just start his silly insults and pointless arguments all over again. That always seems to happen to people who were once banned, at least in my experience. I know someone on one of the other forums I go to who has been banned more than 3 times. And even though he plays nice for a bit, it doesn't take him long to start insulting people and whining about things all over again.

JayWI, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:26 AM, said:

MEtalGuy66, on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:07 AM, said:

If you don't like it, then that's just tuff-sh!t for you.. This place is not going to become a steaming pile of socialist crap resembling what the liberal human garbage is trying to do to this country..

Agreed, hateful bile like that doesn't belong here. Nobody deserves to be called "human garbage" simply because they have a different opinion, and that's all I have to say on that matter without the discussion devolving into a total flamewar.