MaXStaR Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Hi there, I just got my Atari 800XL off of eBay in the mail yesterday, and the power adapter today. Now, the adapter came from a trusted source, but the Console was sold untested. I don't currently have any software to use on it or a disk drive. Now, I have it plugged in, and using the same video cable to the TV I use with my Colecovision, and when I turn it on, I have nothing displayed on screen, the screen is black. Sometimes when I turn it off and on I get either a green screen or a screen with Bars like a 2600 would get without a cartridge. My question is, is this normal if there's no built in Basic or Disk/Cartridge inserted? Or should I be cracking it open to check for bad/poorly seated ICs? Serial# is 024558 174 if that helps. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Hi there, I just got my Atari 800XL off of eBay in the mail yesterday, and the power adapter today. Now, the adapter came from a trusted source, but the Console was sold untested. I don't currently have any software to use on it or a disk drive. Now, I have it plugged in, and using the same video cable to the TV I use with my Colecovision, and when I turn it on, I have nothing displayed on screen, the screen is black. Sometimes when I turn it off and on I get either a green screen or a screen with Bars like a 2600 would get without a cartridge. My question is, is this normal if there's no built in Basic or Disk/Cartridge inserted? Or should I be cracking it open to check for bad/poorly seated ICs? Serial# is 024558 174 if that helps. Thanks. When you say video cable, are you talking about straight up RF? also is your TV on the right channel (there is a channel switch on the rear of the 800XL for channel 2 or 3 - set accordingly) When you turn on an 800XL you should get a blue screen with a ready prompt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaXStaR Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 [quote name='orpheuswaking' date='Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:54 AM' timestamp='1297785282' post='2210604' When you say video cable, are you talking about straight up RF? also is your TV on the right channel (there is a channel switch on the rear of the 800XL for channel 2 or 3 - set accordingly) When you turn on an 800XL you should get a blue screen with a ready prompt. Yeah, straight up RF output to channel 2. Same no display on screen if I set it to Channel 3. I should mention the power light on the unit comes on, and the screen blinks on the TV, I can tell theres a signal getting to the TV, which is occasionally green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I usually only get green with memory problems... Time to check for loose IC's, also test the RAM for heat... After that, you might want to wait for the hardware guys to check in on the thread, they can probably give you more help than I can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaXStaR Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 I usually only get green with memory problems... Time to check for loose IC's, also test the RAM for heat... After that, you might want to wait for the hardware guys to check in on the thread, they can probably give you more help than I can... I opened up the console to take a look at the seating of the chips. I got lucky and have one with Socketed ICs. I grabbed my IC puller and gently pulled up on each RAM chip and the larger other chips on the board, and pressed them back in, just in case there may have been something poorly seated or a lightly corroded contact. I also pulled every RAM IC off and switched them around to see if the RAM test would pop up. The 800XL still does not boot up but now more often it's booting to either a Yellow screen with black borders on the sides, a screen with vertical yellow bars or flickers between a few different mainly yellow screens before going blank black. Possible bad ROM? Could it still be RAM, and anyone think it might boot a Cartridge if inserted? (I have some games on order) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puppetmark Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) I opened up the console to take a look at the seating of the chips. I got lucky and have one with Socketed ICs. I grabbed my IC puller and gently pulled up on each RAM chip and the larger other chips on the board, and pressed them back in, just in case there may have been something poorly seated or a lightly corroded contact. I also pulled every RAM IC off and switched them around to see if the RAM test would pop up. The 800XL still does not boot up but now more often it's booting to either a Yellow screen with black borders on the sides, a screen with vertical yellow bars or flickers between a few different mainly yellow screens before going blank black. Possible bad ROM? Could it still be RAM, and anyone think it might boot a Cartridge if inserted? (I have some games on order) Trying a cartridge is a good idea. In the mean time: - Do you get any kind of audio when you turn on the unit? - did you check to see if any of the RAM chips are overheating? - Are you sure the power supply is putting out 5V DC? My suspicion at this point is bad RAM or a bad OS chip, but it's tough to say without more info. In the past I have seen Yellow screens and / or banding with bad RAM, ROM, MMU, but it could also be a bad latch (U28), or PIA chip. Edited February 16, 2011 by puppetmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaXStaR Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Trying a cartridge is a good idea. In the mean time: - Do you get any kind of audio when you turn on the unit? - did you check to see if any of the RAM chips are overheating? - Are you sure the power supply is putting out 5V DC? My suspicion at this point is bad RAM or a bad OS chip, but it's tough to say without more info. In the past I have seen Yellow screens and / or banding with bad RAM, ROM, MMU, but it could also be a bad latch (U28), or PIA chip. Power supply is putting out 5.17v DC, it seems to be OK. I checked the chips, none are getting really warm. There's no audio at all, silent. I was testing the unit on an LCD TV, but I've moved the computer to a CRT TV, and the colours more of a Deep Red/Maroon (with the occasional yellow bars/screen) instead of black. I guess I'll have to wait until the Carts arrive before I can do anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Red/maroon... Find a spare parts machine and swap out GTIA, ANTIC, OS (in that order)... (although this is my opinion, and I'm NOT a hardware guy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puppetmark Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Power supply is putting out 5.17v DC, it seems to be OK. I checked the chips, none are getting really warm. There's no audio at all, silent. I was testing the unit on an LCD TV, but I've moved the computer to a CRT TV, and the colours more of a Deep Red/Maroon (with the occasional yellow bars/screen) instead of black. I guess I'll have to wait until the Carts arrive before I can do anything else. OK, that 's good info. At this point I would say Orpheuswalking has a good idea. If you have another working machine that has socketed chips, You could start swapping chips one at a time. Antic, GTIA and OS are a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unholy Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 . Antic, GTIA and OS are a good start. I'd add PIA to that list. A "dead" unit I got a few months ago had similar symptoms, and malfunctioning PIA chip turned out to be the culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Don't forget the CPU - but really the easiest way to diagnose this is to do a one-at-a-time swap in of chips from this machine into a known good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaXStaR Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 The Cartridges came in the mail today, still nothing on screen. I'll have to somehow obtain a parts machine to see what I need for parts, which won't be for a bit yet. Loose Translation: Drat. Thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Where are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 are any of the carts star raiders? if so then they wouldnt work any who... star raiders is special (there are others but it is a very common cart so many people have them), as it identifies itself as a diagnostic cart, so it takes control of the machine early in the boot process. and while somethings may not be working the SR cart will work anyway... finding another A8, and use one as a parts machine is usually a good idea... sloopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaXStaR Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 are any of the carts star raiders? if so then they wouldnt work any who... star raiders is special (there are others but it is a very common cart so many people have them), as it identifies itself as a diagnostic cart, so it takes control of the machine early in the boot process. and while somethings may not be working the SR cart will work anyway... finding another A8, and use one as a parts machine is usually a good idea... sloopy. That makes sense, and I guess that would mean that if Star Raiders works, then that would rule out CPU/PIA/MMC/ANTIC and RAM and there could be something wrong with the OS chip - which I already found was covered with very black tarnished pins, cleaned up, and to no effect. I may just find one, I want that game anyway. The games I have now are Pac-Man, Centipede and Frogger. Also, I'm from New Brunswick, Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 with Star Raiders, you can still have bad ram, its just in the section SR doesnt use, same with PIA, and MMC... but it would signify the CPU/Antic/GTIA are good... sloopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaXStaR Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 are any of the carts star raiders? if so then they wouldnt work any who... Are all Star Raiders carts created equal, like will all of them act as Diagnostic carts per se? Just wondering if there's anything specifc about the carts I should be looking for when trying to find an inexpensive Star Raiders cart that may help, like a different Sticker, or number stamped on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 are any of the carts star raiders? if so then they wouldnt work any who... Are all Star Raiders carts created equal, like will all of them act as Diagnostic carts per se? Just wondering if there's anything specifc about the carts I should be looking for when trying to find an inexpensive Star Raiders cart that may help, like a different Sticker, or number stamped on it... Nope all Star Raiders carts (NOT Star Raiders 2) are diagnostic mode carts. BTW - this doesn't mean they run diagnostics on your machine, just that they take control of the system very early which can rule some failures in or out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 All should be the same. Also they only use the bottom 8K. Although in all standard XL/XE machines, at least half the RAM chips are involved in every RAM access due to them providing either 1 or 4 bits each. The thing is though, the startup RAM "POST" is totally bypassed so at least SR will attempt to run, and you might get some sign of life or "different lockup" scenario than with no cart that can indicate that at least the CPU is OK and the OS ROM is at least partially OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Hi there, I just got my Atari 800XL off of eBay in the mail yesterday, and the power adapter today. Now, the adapter came from a trusted source, but the Console was sold untested. I don't currently have any software to use on it or a disk drive. Now, I have it plugged in, and using the same video cable to the TV I use with my Colecovision, and when I turn it on, I have nothing displayed on screen, the screen is black. Sometimes when I turn it off and on I get either a green screen or a screen with Bars like a 2600 would get without a cartridge. My question is, is this normal if there's no built in Basic or Disk/Cartridge inserted? Or should I be cracking it open to check for bad/poorly seated ICs? Serial# is 024558 174 if that helps. Thanks. I just spent hours swapping chips on my 256K Newell 800XL. I compared my 256K with a test board, one plugged into the composite input of the TV and one plugged in via the RF cable. I kept getting a dark screen with noise on the 256K that was connected to the RF. Turned out that my channel 2-3 selector switch was bad, so I don't know what I did, but it was fixed half way. So, I suggest you wiggle the RF selector switch. On mine, if I pushed down on the switch the screen came on. An even better test would be to hook up a composite connection from the monitor port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaXStaR Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 That sounds interesting. I may check that out, however as for a Composite cable, the closest thing I have is an AV cable for a Sega Master System/Genesis 1. (I also have a Commodore Chroma/Luma cable but my 1702 monitor is broken) I checked out the wiring diagrams, the Sega's Composite line matches the 800XL's Luminance output, otherwise the pins are the same. Now, here's my question - would using the Sega Cable on the 800XL actually show an image on screen - only it would just be Black and White? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 That sounds interesting. I may check that out, however as for a Composite cable, the closest thing I have is an AV cable for a Sega Master System/Genesis 1. (I also have a Commodore Chroma/Luma cable but my 1702 monitor is broken) I checked out the wiring diagrams, the Sega's Composite line matches the 800XL's Luminance output, otherwise the pins are the same. Now, here's my question - would using the Sega Cable on the 800XL actually show an image on screen - only it would just be Black and White? Monitor Jack (all but 400, N. American 600XL, XE Game System, SECAM systems): I think this is looking at the holes on the port, not looking at the pins on the plug 3.......1 .5.....4 ....2 1. Composite Luminance 2. Ground 3. Audio Output 4. Composite Video 5. Composite Chroma (not on 800XL,1200XL; grounded on 600XL) Don't know about how the formatting will come out in this post. The Commodore monitor port I think uses the same cable as the Atari. Most TVs have composite and audio inputs, RCA ports. I'm not sure that's what you're asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaXStaR Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 The pins on the Sega Cable are the same except the Composite line on the cable matches the Composite Luminance pin on the 800XL(N.American), and not the straight composite. Older monitors like the Commodore's use two separate cables for the Composite (Chroma/Luma) where the single cable has the signals mixed. I think Luminance controls the brightness and Chromanance controls the colour. Basically, if you used the Commodore/Atari monitor cable on the 800XL, and plugged the Luminance line into the yellow Composite on the TV, would it get a Picture, except only in Black and White? Or would I run the risk of cooking something on the TV, Atari or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Just try each cable on the yellow video input on the TV in turn. Plugging the wrong one in shouldn't matter - if it did, the "standard" of using exact same RCA jacks for such things would never have been adopted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 plugging the luma into the composite input will give you a B&W pic, and wont hurt anything... sloopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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