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Be Aware of the 3DS User Agreement


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#1 Mendon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:33 AM

I wanted to post this, not as a rant, but simply to make people aware of what they are getting into when they purchase a 3DS. The User Agreement states:

"You understand that the Nintendo 3DS System specifications and the Nintendo 3DS Service are constantly evolving and that we [Nintendo] may update or change the Nintendo 3DS System or the Nintendo 3DS Service in whole or in part, without notice to you. Such updates may be required for you to play new Nintendo 3DS games, enjoy new features, or continue to access the Nintendo 3DS Service. After the Nintendo 3DS menu is updated, any existing or future unauthorized technical modification of the hardware or software of your Nintendo 3DS System, or the use of an unauthorized device in connection with your system, will render the system permanently unplayable. Content deriving from the unauthorized modification of the hardware or software of your Nintendo 3DS system will be removed. Failure to accept the update may render games and new features unplayable."


Speaking for myself, while I didn't purchase a 3DS at launch, I figured pretty much that at some point this year I would probably buy one. But after reading the above user agreement, I've decided that I will not purchase this handheld. Reason: the fact that Nintendo states that it will brick 3DS systems for any reason they deem legitimate goes beyond the scope of what I wish to give Nintendo the power to do.

I do not pirate software nor mod any of my consoles and handhelds. But I do buy used games and often shop at flea markets and sometimes eBay. And since there are very professional looking pirate cartridges with legitimate looking labels & cases floating around, the opportunity to save money by buying used or thru non-retail store outlets is eliminated for me due to the fear that my handheld may be rendered permanently unplayable by Nintendo, though I did nothing intentionally wrong or illegal.

I understand that piracy is hurting all software companies. I understand companies are losing a lot of money due to pirate carts and R4 devices. But I do not wish to give Nintendo the right to brick MY system for whatever reason they see as reasonable and legitimate as a solution to their problems.

I would no more agree to give Nintendo this power than I would give this power to General Motors if they stated "Alter, modify, or remove any factory installed equipment and your vehicle will be disabled".

There has to be a better solution to any problems caused by piracy and mod'ing of consoles than rendering a system inoperable.

Sorry Nintendo.... you lost a customer who has spent a LOT of money on your products.


Mendon

Edited by Mendon, Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:53 AM.


#2 Emehr OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:30 AM

In the excitement of all the 3DS news I almost forgot about this little rub. I believe online connectivity is the biggest culprit that will kill the spirit of video games. It's certainly put a damper on my spirits for enjoying modern gaming. Patches for software that should come out of the gates with better integrity, downloadable content that should be included within the game anyway, digital rights management that phones home to the mother ship and requires an internet connection, and now the ability to remote-brick the consumer's property. It all adds up to a major can of buzz-kill. :thumbsdown:

#3 swlovinist OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:36 AM

I dont think that Nintendo will be the only ones doing this in the future, I predict that the "big three" will start doing this.

#4 StoneAgeGamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:05 AM

Just because something is in a EULA does not make it legal to do. However, it is sickening to read some of these EULAs nowadays.

#5 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:19 AM

So what's new here? Don't all EULAs basically boil down to "fuck you"?

#6 revolutionika OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:33 AM

This is the way of the future for ALL new systems going forward. get used to it or stick with the classics.

#7 svenski OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:40 AM

One of the problems I can see with this is that, taking the DS as an example, there is so much pirated software out there and a lot of it is pretty well done that you don't know you're getting a pirate (China) version until you've bought it. Is Nintendo going to fry your 3DS because you unwittingly bought a copied cart off of ebay?

#8 Galeforcerm OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:48 AM

I think its going to be like the psp. If you want to play a new game you have to update. I dont think they will completely disable your device. If its like the psp stuff just wont run unless you have the latest firmware.

#9 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:54 AM

Well, it's nice to see one of these software companies striking back at the little guy for once.... wait, huh?

#10 godslabrat OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:15 AM

Just because something is in a EULA does not make it legal to do. However, it is sickening to read some of these EULAs nowadays.


To put it another way, just because Nintendo (says they) can do something doesn't mean they will. If Nintendo never intentionally bricks a system, is there really any harm?

I don't like this at all, but until words are put into action, I don't see any reason to deny myself a 3DS. It doesn't make sense for Nintendo to start bricking systems all willy-nilly, even if they have the right to do so, which it's debatable if they do or not.

#11 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:27 AM

It doesn't make sense for Nintendo to start bricking systems all willy-nilly, even if they have the right to do so



*cough cough $150 profit per unit sold ACHHHHEM*

Man, that was nasty.

#12 godslabrat OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:01 PM


It doesn't make sense for Nintendo to start bricking systems all willy-nilly, even if they have the right to do so



*cough cough $150 profit per unit sold ACHHHHEM*

Man, that was nasty.


Yeah, because if Nintendo bricks my system, I'm TOTALLY going to go buy another one!

People are already boycotting the 3DS because of this, and not one system has been bricked. What kind of backlash will we see if it actually happens? It'll make the 360's RRoD drama look like nothing by comparison.

I fully respect anyone's decision to not have a 3DS because of this, but don't act like the EULA puts the ball entirely in Nintendo's court...

#13 RevEng ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:30 PM

To put it another way, just because Nintendo (says they) can do something doesn't mean they will.

If they don't intend to do it, why would they explicitly assert it's their legal right to do so in their EULA? It's pretty reasonable to assume they'll follow through.

From my perspective this is just another example of companies trying to change "stuff we own" into "stuff they let us pretend we own".

#14 rockman_x_2002 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:32 PM

Sounds like standard EULA fare these days. Does it suck? Sure. But I think the Wii and DSi had similar EULAs, and I would wager that future consoles from other manufacturers will have the same or similar after the whole PS3 hacking scenario.

That being said, it does suck for the tinkerer and hobbyist. But at least they're telling you up front instead of not telling you for months or years, and then jerking the rug right out from under you at the last minute. That would suck even more.

That being said, the Wii's EULA says the same but Nintendo hasn't actively gone and bricked Wiis. They've deleted homebrew applications, however. I think this language exists mostly as a CYA play for unforseeable events. I.e., You're using a custom firmware that has a dependency on some homebrew application or driver set. Nintendo comes along and wipes the driver set but doesn't get the CFW's OS proper. End result, bricked system. So I think this is Nintendo's way of being able to say, "Not our problem," if that situation should arise. To do anything more heinous than that would lose a huge amount of all this consumer goodwill that they've worked to build in the past 5-7 years since the DS and Wii launched.

#15 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:34 PM


It doesn't make sense for Nintendo to start bricking systems all willy-nilly, even if they have the right to do so



*cough cough $150 profit per unit sold ACHHHHEM*

Man, that was nasty.

M$ has been doing a great job of gouging with their lovely 360 system. I know at least 3 people that ended up having to buy new units because M$ either wouldn't stand by their product or would send another defective model after their broken box sat in Texas for a month or two. Gouging and turning the end user into a beta tester is just the way the game is played today. pun intended

Edited by save2600, Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:38 PM.


#16 Mord OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:49 PM

So what's new here? Don't all EULAs basically boil down to "fuck you"?


Yes, but that doesn't mean we're required to bend over if we're not totally hurting for new games or consoles. I'm more worried about the rumour a while back on kotaku about the 3DS downloading firmware upgrades while in stand-by mode if it detects another 3DS with a later version - at which point it attempts to get it from that system.

Even without that though, I can't say I'm too interested in the 3DS. I'll probably be able to skip this upcoming generation entirely just playing my backlog of DS and PSP titles. :ponder:

I need to save money anyway, so Nintendo (and Sony) will need to be a LOT less possessive than this to earn any of my money. (For the next generation anyway, although I'm being pretty conservative with this generation at this point.)

#17 godslabrat OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:24 PM

If they don't intend to do it, why would they explicitly assert it's their legal right to do so in their EULA? It's pretty reasonable to assume they'll follow through.



Tons of reasons, not the least of which being than they need to show that they actively defend their IP. It's easier to reserve a legal right and never use it than it is to Ty and justify an action after the fact.

As far as I'm concerned, they can put whatever they want in the EULA, but the second Aaron is no longer a happy customer, the money stops flowing in the direction of Nintendo.

#18 svenski OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:31 PM

Rockman got it right. I doubt Nintendo will openly tell you they've bricked your 3DS. They'll just release a firmware update ("to improve the entertainment experience") that they know will crash anything that is not 100% as they shipped it.

#19 wood_jl OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:55 PM



It doesn't make sense for Nintendo to start bricking systems all willy-nilly, even if they have the right to do so



*cough cough $150 profit per unit sold ACHHHHEM*

Man, that was nasty.

M$ has been doing a great job of gouging with their lovely 360 system. I know at least 3 people that ended up having to buy new units because M$ either wouldn't stand by their product or would send another defective model after their broken box sat in Texas for a month or two. Gouging and turning the end user into a beta tester is just the way the game is played today. pun intended

Classify that one under "faulty hardware" and at least they did extend the warranty for 3 years. Still sucks, but it's not the same thing (at all) as intentionally "bricking" your system. The scenario where you buy a used pirate game off of Ebay or Amazon is real - as I have done both. Nintendo would happily tell you to go to a retailer and buy a brand new, full-price game with the Nintendo seal of quality, or (more profitably) download the game (and some system updates, while you're connected) from them, I imagine.

#20 atarian63 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:00 PM



It doesn't make sense for Nintendo to start bricking systems all willy-nilly, even if they have the right to do so



*cough cough $150 profit per unit sold ACHHHHEM*

Man, that was nasty.


Yeah, because if Nintendo bricks my system, I'm TOTALLY going to go buy another one!

People are already boycotting the 3DS because of this, and not one system has been bricked. What kind of backlash will we see if it actually happens? It'll make the 360's RRoD drama look like nothing by comparison.

I fully respect anyone's decision to not have a 3DS because of this, but don't act like the EULA puts the ball entirely in Nintendo's court...

Not quite the same but 360's self bricked and people still bought another one... LOL! Anyway, I bought a 3DS and don't like the policy but I do like the system so far. What am I going to do? stop buying new systems..not likely.
As an example my retail store had a tough return policy, it was in place for those trying to commit theft or other. We seldom enforced it to it's full extent but posting it and putting in on your credit card receipt meant we could. Probably what Nintendo is doing.

#21 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:06 PM




It doesn't make sense for Nintendo to start bricking systems all willy-nilly, even if they have the right to do so



*cough cough $150 profit per unit sold ACHHHHEM*

Man, that was nasty.


Yeah, because if Nintendo bricks my system, I'm TOTALLY going to go buy another one!

People are already boycotting the 3DS because of this, and not one system has been bricked. What kind of backlash will we see if it actually happens? It'll make the 360's RRoD drama look like nothing by comparison.

I fully respect anyone's decision to not have a 3DS because of this, but don't act like the EULA puts the ball entirely in Nintendo's court...

Not quite the same but 360's self bricked and people still bought another one... LOL!
As an example my retail store had a tough return policy, it was in place for those trying to commit theft or other. We seldom enforced it to it's full extent but posting it and putting in on your credit card receipt meant we could. Probably what Nintendo is doing.


Well, accepting returns is a bit different than destroying paid merchandise. And Microsoft purposefully crippled a lot of 360s, including one of mine, and I did buy another... so there :P

#22 Animan OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:47 PM

I think they are more referring to flash carts the illegal copies. It'd be plain stupid for Ninty to brick a system for using illegal copies that someone didn't even know were fakes. I can see them sending a message to the user that the copy they are using is illegal. Then it becomes an issue of knowing if the user was doing so intentionally or not.

I am glad that Nintendo is taking big steps to curb piracy, and I think that they are being reasonable.

#23 Tr3vor OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:52 PM

I wonder if this has anyything to do with this?

http://ds.ign.com/ar.../1158057p1.html



#24 RevEng ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:32 PM

Tons of reasons, not the least of which being than they need to show that they actively defend their IP. It's easier to reserve a legal right and never use it than it is to Ty and justify an action after the fact.

So you're conceding they're at least considering it an action they may take?

The EULA accompanying the latest Wii updates don't contain the "will render the system permanently unplayable" clause at all. This is a change in direction for Nintendo.

It's also worth noting that in September 2009, Nintendo pushed out an anti-piracy update that bricked some legit Wii. The issue at hand was Nintendo's own update software. (it updated boot2 but sometimes didn't write out ECC data for the same) Nintendo is completely willing to take collateral damage in the war on piracy.

Given their history of writing security code (the original boot1 security hole is the kind of rookie mistake someone unfamiliar with C code would make) if they do try a brick update, there will likely be false positives.

Even the fact that they say that they have the right to brick my property if I use it contrary to their business model leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

#25 wood_jl OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:36 PM

I think it's pretty clear that the well-documented, well-understood, much-discussed Xbox 360 problem was a DESIGN/MANUFACTURING DEFECT and not a "self-bricking." Let's all be big boys here, and make the distinction. And while we're at it, admit that MS did extend the warranty 3 years, although it's not completely amends.

Edited by wood_jl, Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:36 PM.





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