Massive Atari collection for iPhone launches tonight

[BrianC]

Seems to me most of the 1-star reviews are actually because it doesn't have licensed games it COULDN'T have (and which often already ARE in the App Store) or because they're mad about in-app purchase game packs, even though that's clearly explained at the beginning of the description.

 

I wish Apple would change their ratings system, or at least make complaints and reviews seperate. Too many of those "reviews" give a single star over ANY flaw, even if it is something minor. Some 1 star reviews even say the app is good.

[Room 34]

Seems to me most of the 1-star reviews are actually because it doesn't have licensed games it COULDN'T have (and which often already ARE in the App Store) or because they're mad about in-app purchase game packs, even though that's clearly explained at the beginning of the description.

 

I wish Apple would change their ratings system, or at least make complaints and reviews seperate. Too many of those "reviews" give a single star over ANY flaw, even if it is something minor. Some 1 star reviews even say the app is good.

 

I think it would help if they allowed other users to vote up or down reviews, the way Amazon does. "0 out of 250 users found this review helpful." Ideally reviews with a really low rating like this would be dropped from the average rating score and not displayed with the rest of the reviews.

[mckafka99]

@Room 34

 

Nice review! Noticed you mentioned that "Luckily, Asteroids (and apparently most of the arcade games, though I haven’t tried them all yet) offers multiple control schemes, including the original arcade-style five-button configuration"

 

This must be iPad specific as it isnt an option on my iPod touch (or I dont see it) though I definitely wish it were. Other Asteroid clone apps offer this (e.g "roids79") and I would love this option on my touch.

[Room 34]

@Room 34

 

Nice review! Noticed you mentioned that "Luckily, Asteroids (and apparently most of the arcade games, though I haven’t tried them all yet) offers multiple control schemes, including the original arcade-style five-button configuration"

 

This must be iPad specific as it isnt an option on my iPod touch (or I dont see it) though I definitely wish it were. Other Asteroid clone apps offer this (e.g "roids79") and I would love this option on my touch.

 

Yeah... I realized later (when I finally tried Asteroids on the iPhone) that the 5-button configuration is iPad-only. Just as well though... I had a feeling it wouldn't work well on the iPhone, and Jeff could probably confirm that.

 

I don't know... I still don't like the disc (default) controller for Asteroids, but I think the roller works pretty well. The arrangement of roller on the left and three buttons on the right feels fairly natural, even if the 3 buttons are a bit hard to get to -- but luckily I rarely use hyperspace or thrust -- and the roller works surprisingly well to control rotation. (And I think it works GREAT on Tempest.)

 

One thing I'd REALLY like though is an option for landscape orientation on the 2600 games. It's so much easier to hold the iPhone in landscape for games, especially when there are on-screen thumb controls. My feeble old hands fall asleep if I play for very long holding the iPhone in portrait orientation... and I have the same problem with the DS... it's not the orientation, it's that the device is top-heavy. But the iPhone held in landscape mode is nicely balanced in the hands.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Room 34

[JeffVav]

Have to admit being a little disappointed with the controls, but hope that an update will give us some more control options as this collection is too awesome to be held back by that!

 

Yeah, we're aware the controls are not ideal, though some of that can't be helped on a touch screen. One thing that would help would be specific suggestions that people feel would improve it. Some that I've seen mentioned:

 

• Sensitivity adjustments
  
• An option to flip left and right placement
  
• Auto-anchoring for the joystick to centre on wherever you initially touch
  
• Touching anyhwere to fire in games that only have one fire button
  
• Full screen game play with overlaid transluscent controls
  
• Accelerometer control for Red Baron and the paddle games
  

 

Anything else?

 

You can already control many games by dragging on the playfield, and Asteroids and similiarly-controlled games have multiple schemes, as does Millipede and Centipede.

[mckafka99]

Yeah, we're aware the controls are not ideal, though some of that can't be helped on a touch screen. One thing that would help would be specific suggestions that people feel would improve it. Some that I've seen mentioned:

 

• Sensitivity adjustments
  
• An option to flip left and right placement
  
• Auto-anchoring for the joystick to centre on wherever you initially touch
  
• Touching anyhwere to fire in games that only have one fire button
  
• Full screen game play with overlaid transluscent controls
  
• Accelerometer control for Red Baron and the paddle games
  

 

Anything else?

 

You can already control many games by dragging on the playfield, and Asteroids and similiarly-controlled games have multiple schemes, as does Millipede and Centipede.

 

Cant say thanks enough for being available here to hear us out! I think the ones in the list (flip left/right placement of controls (or paddle games, being able to choose left/right for the button) and full screen with translucent controls) were the first to come to my mind. I tend be more 'right-thumbed' so being able to swap the controls would work wonders for me and Asteroids with 5 small translucent buttons along the bottom in landscape mode on a Touch is very manageable (judging by some of the Asteroids clones that have done this).

 

I'd also vote for landscape/fullscreen (or as much screen as possible) 2600 games with the 'Auto-anchoring for the joystick to centre on wherever you initially touch' or even a fixed translucent d-pad (along with choice of left/right control/button placement).

 

As I play through the games, if I come up with anything more, I'll definitely post back

 

Thanks again for the awesome work.

[Room 34]

I'm happy to report that I just triggered the HSWWSH Easter egg.

[JeffVav]

Had to comment out loud somewhere about the 1 star reviews over having to pay: Does anyone else find it ironic that you can own a game for $0.25 ($0.99 for 4 games) that used to cost $0.25 for one play, and yet some people are outraged at the "money grab"? I'm trying to imagine somebody walking up to an Asteroids machine in an arcade, looking at the coin slot and throwing their hands up in the air: "25 cents for ONE PLAY and I don't even get to take it home with me?! @% that!"

[JeffVav]

(Another minor gripe - they didn't add the blue overlay on Red Baron.)

 

Actually, we had it in but there's something wrong with the iPhone 4's gamma. It looked way too dark when it was only blue.

[DaveD]

Had to comment out loud somewhere about the 1 star reviews over having to pay: Does anyone else find it ironic that you can own a game for $0.25 ($0.99 for 4 games) that used to cost $0.25 for one play, and yet some people are outraged at the "money grab"? I'm trying to imagine somebody walking up to an Asteroids machine in an arcade, looking at the coin slot and throwing their hands up in the air: "25 cents for ONE PLAY and I don't even get to take it home with me?! @% that!"

 

Yes and no. I may be the biggest arcade junkie on the planet (one of them anyway) and I don't own a cell phone. Yeah, I'm that guy. However if this collection is done right it may be enough to convince me it is time. I think part of the mindset people have is that these games have been around just in emulation now for decades. And some of those emulation collections (PS2 Atari Anthology for example) are pretty poor. And perhaps the best emulation experience is MAME which is free. Thanks to this the value and perhaps marketability of these games is greatly diminished. So we're not really comparing this collection to arcade games. There was way more to the arcade game experience than just the ROMs. We're comparing it to all the other emulation collections that allow us to play on computers, online, handheld devices, TVs, homemade cabinets, etc. So if that experience is subpar in any way, there are so many other ways to experience just the ROMs. So I see both sides to that story.

[Chuplayer]

LOL @ Warlords 2600 not getting bluetooth multiplayer.

[JeffVav]

LOL @ Warlords 2600 not getting bluetooth multiplayer.

 

It does. They made a few typos in the description (like saying "92 games" instead of "82 games" for the 2600 list).

[unhuman]

LOL @ Warlords 2600 not getting bluetooth multiplayer.

 

It does. They made a few typos in the description (like saying "92 games" instead of "82 games" for the 2600 list).

 

We should launch a class action lawsuit.

[JeffVav]

I think part of the mindset people have is that these games have been around just in emulation now for decades. And some of those emulation collections (PS2 Atari Anthology for example) are pretty poor. And perhaps the best emulation experience is MAME which is free. Thanks to this the value and perhaps marketability of these games is greatly diminished. So we're not really comparing this collection to arcade games. There was way more to the arcade game experience than just the ROMs. We're comparing it to all the other emulation collections that allow us to play on computers, online, handheld devices, TVs, homemade cabinets, etc. So if that experience is subpar in any way, there are so many other ways to experience just the ROMs. So I see both sides to that story.

 

MAME has always been a tricky topic for me. We (as Digital Eclipse) made the first video game emulations available with Williams Arcade Classics back in 1994. I feel we set the standard for "not just the ROMs" before there was a standard: we tracked down Larry DeMar, Eugene Jarvis and John Newcomer and put about 30 minutes of video interviews with the original designers. We have taken care to put the games in context, treat them with respect, and collaborate with the rights holders to get them released officially, etc.

 

As I understand it, Dave Spicer saw what we did and created his Sparcade emulator which covered Namco titles. Then the MAME dev guys saw what Dave Spicer did and were inspired to create MAME. When you cut corners as MAME did (just the ROMs, releasing it as a perpetual beta, not getting the rights), they obviously built up their offerings faster, and for free they get more awareness. And as a free perpetual beta, there was more tolerance from the audience. Now MAME has, over the years, been backfilling many of the problems (friendlier features, bug fixes, and escalation of CPU speeds make the performance no longer an issue), and they will always trump us on value and quantity -- it's free because they don't pay for the rights.

 

I generally stay off the topic of MAME as I know people are very appreciative of it and get very defensive of any critique. I do get a little uneasy though when our work is compared with MAME (especially, say, with a customer review I saw that suggested we'd ripped off MAME's code) as we'd introduced many of the features first and they were copied from us: video game emulation in the first place, retention of high scores, cabinet art, alternate tile set skins, etc. We innovate, it's copied in free unlicenced renditions, and then people no longer see the value in what we've done. (Ironically, we've later had to deal with external QA who, during development, sometimes take it upon themselves to check our game's behaviour against MAME and we've had to point them to video of the real cabinet and show them that in fact MAME was wrong.)

 

That's why these compilations rarely get released for PC anymore, I feel. On consoles, handhelds, mobile, etc., unless you're "jailbroken" or the like, we can at least deliver these games legitimately to the audience without having to compete with unlicenced versions. I'd speculate that a compilation on Android would be slow coming for the same reason.

 

Anyway, bottom line, we're not competing against MAME on the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch unless you are jailbroken. At least the games, there, are competing on a level playing field. If people don't see the value in owning a retrogame for $0.15-$0.25 on their phone, then that's their choice as consumer. If no one wants to play, we'll stop making them. It just astounds me the number of people who are outraged at the prospect of paying $0.99 for 4 games that are, IMHO, of reasonable quality. I'm not suggesting the experience is equivalent to the arcade cabinet, but you also didn't get to own the arcade cabinet for $0.25.

[+Nathan Strum]

Anyway, bottom line, we're not competing against MAME on the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch unless you are jailbroken. At least the games, there, are competing on a level playing field. If people don't see the value in owning a retrogame for $0.15-$0.25 on their phone, then that's their choice as consumer. If no one wants to play, we'll stop making them. It just astounds me the number of people who are outraged at the prospect of paying $0.99 for 4 games that are, IMHO, of reasonable quality. I'm not suggesting the experience is equivalent to the arcade cabinet, but you also didn't get to own the arcade cabinet for $0.25.

I don't think the complaining really has much to do with MAME being free. I think it has to do with the fact that more and more, there is an entitlement generation coming up that feels that they're simply "owed" everything. If you look at almost any app in the iTunes store, there are borderline-illiterate idiots making completely ridiculous, asinine, petty complaints about not only apps that cost a mere 99¢, but ones that are actually FREE. Not offering constructive criticism, but just whining because they can.

 

The whole idea of being able to purchase games (and high-quality ones at that) for 99¢ was unheard of until smartphones came along. But now, it's not only commonplace, it's expected. People get very whiny and defensive when they "have to" spend their hard-earned 99¢ on a game that's less-than-their-idea-of-perfect. Give me a break! You can't buy an order of fries for that! From my standpoint (having plunked down thousands of quarters into arcade games back in the day), 99¢ is a bargain to be able to own even one arcade classic. That's less than four plays on a real arcade game. That's nothing. I'm sure my first four games of Defender combined lasted mere seconds.

 

I'll admit, I used to be pretty heavily into MAME (I ran a MacMAME website for years, in fact). But since the Mac version imploded, I really haven't bothered with it for several years now. Even so, I'd still always pick up whatever commercial emulation packages were available, whether for consoles I owned or my Mac (and there weren't many on the Mac... but I do have the original Digital Eclipse Williams releases), because having grown up playing those games, I have an appreciation for them and I want those responsible to get compensated for their work in bringing back a lot of fond memories. Plus, I'm hoping that it leads to more games becoming available. (Again... Quantum would be perfect on the iPhone. Or how about I, Robot with tilt controls? )

 

The best way to counter bad reviews, is to write good ones (which I still need to do, admittedly). I think most people are intelligent enough to disregard reviews borne out of stupidity and ignorance.

 

I'm glad I spent the $14.99 for the whole set. Not because every game in there is a winner (really... Math Gran Prix?), but because it supports classic gaming. And for the few games I will play a lot, it's worth the money.

 

It's cheaper than a pizza.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Nathan Strum

[JeffVav]

I'd still always pick up whatever commercial emulation packages were available, whether for consoles I owned or my Mac (and there weren't many on the Mac... but I do have the original Digital Eclipse Williams releases), because having grown up playing those games, I have an appreciation for them and I want those responsible to get compensated for their work in bringing back a lot of fond memories. Plus, I'm hoping that it leads to more games becoming available. (Again... Quantum would be perfect on the iPhone. Or how about I, Robot with tilt controls? )

 

Thanks, I feel a little better now. (Referring to your full post, not just the quote above.)

 

And those very first Mac boxes are part of what I was getting at: even way before there was a reason to "compete" I feel Digital Eclipse was showing these games some due respect by crafting boxes that were shaped like the arcade cabinets. They're still my favourite boxes. It's never been shovelware to us. I've passed on some offers to do classic compilations because the publisher wasn't going to give us the time and/or budget to have a hope of doing it right.

 

As for Quantum and I, Robot, I have my own wish list, too. It's been harder to get the budgets to expand on things these days, FWIW. I mentioned in the DS thread how we were throwing in stuff on our own dime just for the sake of integrity (Atari 400, Army Battlezone). That said, being #2 top grossing iPad probably gives us some legitimacy to ask "what can we do to keep this ball rolling?"

[Dauber]

I'm happy to report that I just triggered the HSWWSH Easter egg.

 

Heh....I was trying to do that all morning yesterday; glad it can be done.

 

I gave it a 3-star review....mainly because of the playability. Specifically, I don't like that if you don't use the D-pad option, you're forced to use a left-handed controller. When these games came out first, they were all right-handed, and that's how I learned 'em, and that's how I've been playing video games ever since. (And undoubtedly this is why I always sucked at the arcade versions of Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr., and Popeye -- I couldn't get used to the left-handed controls!) Hopefully an update will offer a right-handed option. Crystal Castles (arcade, at least) was especially tough with this...and pretty unresponsive to the fire button, too...

 

I was also disappointed by the non-inclusion of Food Fight!...

 

But overall, though, it is a neat little thing....and yeah, $15 for almost 100 games is NOT an unreasonable price.

 

But my REAL dilemma: I have two directories on my iPhone for games -- one simply labeled "Games," and another labeled "Arcade," where I have things like Pac-Man, Dig Dug, etc. Where should I put Atari's Greatest Hits???

 

BTW -- I'm actually happy that some of the more questionable ones -- like Math Gran Prix -- are included.....because I never owned them, so now I can check 'em out. (Yeah, I know, the ROMs are there for emulation, but still....)

Edited April 10, 2011 by Dauber

[Room 34]

I'm happy to report that I just triggered the HSWWSH Easter egg.

 

Heh....I was trying to do that all morning yesterday; glad it can be done.

 

I gave it a 3-star review....mainly because of the playability. Specifically, I don't like that if you don't use the D-pad option, you're forced to use a left-handed controller. When these games came out first, they were all right-handed, and that's how I learned 'em, and that's how I've been playing video games ever since. (And undoubtedly this is why I always sucked at the arcade versions of Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr., and Popeye -- I couldn't get used to the left-handed controls!) Hopefully an update will offer a right-handed option. Crystal Castles (arcade, at least) was especially tough with this...and pretty unresponsive to the fire button, too...

 

I was also disappointed by the non-inclusion of Food Fight!...

 

But overall, though, it is a neat little thing....and yeah, $15 for almost 100 games is NOT an unreasonable price.

 

But my REAL dilemma: I have two directories on my iPhone for games -- one simply labeled "Games," and another labeled "Arcade," where I have things like Pac-Man, Dig Dug, etc. Where should I put Atari's Greatest Hits???

 

BTW -- I'm actually happy that some of the more questionable ones -- like Math Gran Prix -- are included.....because I never owned them, so now I can check 'em out. (Yeah, I know, the ROMs are there for emulation, but still....)

 

 

I definitely agree that the 2600 games need right-handed controls. And that goes for the paddle games as well as the joystick games. It just doesn't feel right.

 

One game I've been meaning to ask about, i.e. where is it??? is Solaris. I wondered if maybe Atari didn't own the rights to it anymore (since the original game said copyright Doug Neubauer), but didn't he do Radar Lock (which was essentially a hack of Solaris, and is included) too?

 

I've long believed that Solaris was the highest quality game Atari ever released for the 2600, and it would be nice to see it included here. I'm also realizing how many of the great Atari 2600 games were licensed arcade titles. I knew most of the early ones like Space Invaders and Pac-Man wouldn't be included... but for some reason I have a mental disconnect when you get to the silver label era. I knew most of those games were licensed arcade adaptations but it's easy (for me) to forget that Atari didn't own the rights to games like Dig Dug, Moon Patrol, Galaxian, Phoenix, etc. In other words, most of the games I actually enjoyed playing on the Atari 2600 as a kid.

 

Sky Diver? Human Cannonball? Slot Machine? Star Ship? Night Driver? Rubbish. I don't think I ever even saw a lot of those pre-1982 games for sale, and no one I knew owned any of them. I'm not complaining that they're in there. I'd be disappointed if they weren't. It's just... hmm. Due to licensing issues, we're left with a not-very-flattering portrait of the original Atari 2600 experience.

 

I'd be happy if Activision would finally release an iOS collection of their Atari 2600 games. Maybe if Atari's Greatest Hits has success they'll consider it. I still remember my excitement about the Activision Anthology for Game Boy Advance a few years ago, and that was nowhere near what's possible with iOS.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Room 34

[+Nathan Strum]

I gave it a 3-star review....mainly because of the playability. Specifically, I don't like that if you don't use the D-pad option, you're forced to use a left-handed controller. When these games came out first, they were all right-handed, and that's how I learned 'em, and that's how I've been playing video games ever since. (And undoubtedly this is why I always sucked at the arcade versions of Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr., and Popeye -- I couldn't get used to the left-handed controls!) Hopefully an update will offer a right-handed option. Crystal Castles (arcade, at least) was especially tough with this...and pretty unresponsive to the fire button, too...

Agreed 100% on all counts. I've had this problem with other 2600 anthologies as well, since consoles all use left-handed D-pads. When the Flashback portable was proposed, that was my sole disappointment with its design. (Yeah... I get that everything since the NES has been left-handed, but that doesn't mean it works for me. )

 

Sky Diver? Human Cannonball? Slot Machine? Star Ship? Night Driver? Rubbish. I don't think I ever even saw a lot of those pre-1982 games for sale, and no one I knew owned any of them. I'm not complaining that they're in there. I'd be disappointed if they weren't. It's just... hmm. Due to licensing issues, we're left with a not-very-flattering portrait of the original Atari 2600 experience.

I've been trying to figure out a way to express that, and I think that's the best description I've heard of this 2600 collection - it's just not very flattering for a console that we know can do so much better.

[RangerG]

Glad to read the posts here. Too many reviews out there mentioned bad graphics, too many pixels, etc. This is the 2600, we want it to look that way. I'm more apt to get it now for my new Ipad.

[maiki]

The last remakes that made sence were those in Playstation One times which renders at 15 kHz progressive modes - those that vast majority of all video games are using (or should I say when video games market existed they used it...). They had to redesign the games so that they match 4:3 CRT screen (in case of vertical arcade titles) and it looks like it should. Since PS2 / Xbox it's been nothing but rubbish running on emulation / improper displays... Today they don't bother with authentic video modes they just throw the output to whatver resolution and nerds keep buying... for instance I've got Midway arcade treasures for Xbox and I nearly vomitted when I saw what they did with the games. Everything runs at fixed stretched out 640x480i resolution, hiding the flicker by blurring all the pixels and you don't see the authentic 15 kHz video modes anymore...

Edited April 10, 2011 by maiki

[Flojomojo]

Jeff: thanks so much for opening up in this forum. I think it's important for people to read about the effort that goes into a legitimate, licensed collection like this. I bought the whole thing the instant it was ready, and would love it if you could add more (I, Robot, Food Fight, or 7800 games) in the future. A few comments:

 

Controls. They're pretty good as is, especially with the promise of iCade to come. I'm glad you're doing the anchor-first-touch technique. You'll make Minter happy, too.

 

Reviews and pricing. I almost wish you had launched this for a dollar with a few games attached, like Adventure or Asteroids. Since users aren't allowed to write reviews without having purchased the game, that would have blocked a lot of the idiot brigade who were annoyed when the hit the paywall. You can see the same thing with the Capcom, Intellivision, or Turbo Grafx collections. C64 is a little better off, probably because of its $4.99 price. I wonder if this is why Sega decided to not do the omnibus Sega Genesis package, instead opting to release them as separate apps?

 

Game selection. The choices are awesome as is, and I'm sure you're not permitted to leave a back door open to run arbitrary ROMs (I looked at the Greatest Hits folder in iPhone Explorer just for kicks). Is it safe to assume that an Activision pack would have to be a whole new deal, with Activision and no input from Atari? If I were the emperor of Atari, I'd be seeking out the old licensees just so I could provide a more complete retro package. Or courting a bigger company that could just buy up everything and unite the galaxy and end this destructive conflict.

[JeffVav]

Game selection. The choices are awesome as is, and I'm sure you're not permitted to leave a back door open to run arbitrary ROMs (I looked at the Greatest Hits folder in iPhone Explorer just for kicks). Is it safe to assume that an Activision pack would have to be a whole new deal, with Activision and no input from Atari? If I were the emperor of Atari, I'd be seeking out the old licensees just so I could provide a more complete retro package. Or courting a bigger company that could just buy up everything and unite the galaxy and end this destructive conflict.

 

There is an opportunity cost to licensing... lawyers and the like. Even if they were so inclined, I would be surprised if Atari could make Activision an offer that Activision would feel would make it worth their while.

 

As to leaving a back door open, that would violate Apple's approval requirements. I would expect any app that managed to sneak a back door past Apple (not that we ever would) would get pulled as soon as it was discovered and that developer probably kicked from the programme for life. Incidentally, I wish the author of a certain mainstream article had bothered to do the test you just did before posting his unfounded theory...

[Room 34]

I would expect any app that managed to sneak a back door past Apple (not that we ever would) would get pulled as soon as it was discovered...

 

No need to speculate... that exact thing already did happen at least twice that I know of, with emulators for the Commodore 64 and DOS.

 

...and that developer probably kicked from the programme for life.

 

In both cases I mentioned, the apps were subsequently resubmitted with changes that closed those back doors, and re-approved.

[unhuman]

Bought this - just be be mostly supportive and hope it wasn't as bad as people are saying. Controls are heinous. On my iPhone 4, asteroids is pretty hard to see... But appears to be pretty good emulation, just awful controls. I'd like to see tilting be a control mechanism....