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SIO2USB with a FTDI basic breakout board


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#26 Marius OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:31 PM

If that's the case what do you call an SIO based interface that talks to ANY USB device?. IMO SIO2USB should be a general name indicating "Interface from Atari SIO to a USB device" (whether such interface exists or not), much like the USB interface on a PC. So Abbuc's device should have really been called SIO2USBS (USB Stick) or SIO2USBF (USB Flash drive) instead of monopolizing (perhaps unintentionally) the acronym SIO2USB.


At first.... I was referring to the fact that all the sio2 creations are talking to a STORAGE device. So bringing up talking to ANY usb device is a false statement. Any 'invention' using the 'sio2' name is talking to some kind of storage target. Like I wrote:

Sio2 PC -> Sio -> storage on PC

Sio2 IDE -> Sio -> Storage on IDE

... ABBUC is doing this with Sio2 USB

Sio2 USB -> Sio -> Storage on USB

Any compatible USB device can be used. If you have a compatible USB cardreader? connect it to your ABBUC Sio2USB and there you go.

It does not work with an USB scanner or USB speaker set, since that is not a storage device. And so it is not a problem that this device is still called a 'sio2' device.

That the abbuc SIO2USB is unfortunately not 100% compatible with all USB storage devices is a pity, but that is also with sio2IDE.

A sio based interface providing a 'real' USB port (compatible with all kind of USB devices) would not carry the name Sio2 ... but simply "Atari USB Interface"

Sio based Printer and modem interfaces also don't carry the name "Sio2Printer" or "Sio2Modem" right?

So Sio2USB is a perfect name in the list of "Sio2" devices.

#27 atari8warez OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:52 PM

A sio based interface providing a 'real' USB port (compatible with all kind of USB devices) would not carry the name Sio2 ... but simply "Atari USB Interface"


Well, it could, if it uses the SIO interface as the basis. The reason we have SIO in the name is because the interface is based on the SIO port and the SIO protocol talks to whatever protocol we are interfacing to. However if the interface completely bypasses the SIO protocol and implements it's own and use a regular USB port then it would probably be simply called the Atari USB interface.

Sio based Printer and modem interfaces also don't carry the name "Sio2Printer" or "Sio2Modem" right?
So Sio2USB is a perfect name in the list of "Sio2" devices.


Right, they are called with various different names. SIO2xx wording was first coined by Nick Kennedy to implicate interfacing SIO protocol to some other device (in this case a PC -- and not necessarly STORAGE ONLY -- ) that does not use SIO signalling.

Edited by atari8warez, Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:59 PM.


#28 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:31 AM

Thought for grins I'd try one of these boards that Snoopy recommended (with the 3.3V solder jumper).

Did anyone copy the info provided from the original posters web site? This is now a "404"
http://www.stephens-home.com/sio2usb/

Probably can figure it out, but I'm sure the original info would be quite helpful.

-Larry

#29 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:35 AM

http://web.archive.o...me.com/sio2usb/

Lookat that Larry,

#30 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:17 AM

Thanks, Roy. Excellent -- I never seem to remember that much of this is archived.

-Larry

http://web.archive.o...me.com/sio2usb/

Lookat that Larry,



#31 kogden OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:58 PM

I remember that site.... I have 2 of these rigged up.... one internally in my 600XL, and one soldered into an SIO connector and taped to the housing....basically a dongle.

The board was the FTDI FT232RL Breakout Board from SparkFun available here for $15....got mine when they were on sale for $10:
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/718

FT232RL.jpg

The other pins are labeled on the other side of the board.

The board is a great cheap TTL serial to USB adapter. No additional electronics really needed. Tie RX, TX and ground on the backside of the board to appropriate pins on SIO and RI to SIO 'COMMAND' pin. No other connections needed. If it doesn't work you probably hooked it to wrong pins on SIO or RX and TX are backwards. Just grab an SIO pinout.

These are also awesome for adding serial console ports to Linksys WRT54G routers, NAS devices, for reflashing and hacking on. The industrialized 4-port USB->serial adapters I use at work (SerialGear) use the same chips internally.

This is probably the cheapest and easiest SIO2PC adapter you can get.

#32 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:10 AM

I found a 1-1/2" X 2-1/2" X 1" thick hobby case that will just fit the bill. I also have several old serial SIO2PC projects, so I can just remove an already cut SIO cable

I'd like to add a power LED and an activity LED "for show."

Presume that the 3.3V connection on the end of the board can be used with apx 150 Ohm resistor for the power LED?
Any suggestions as to how to connect an activity LED on the Atari side?

-Larry

#33 kogden OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:31 AM

The breakout board has pins for RX/TX LED's and two surface mount LED's on-board.... not so sure about power. I have the LED's covered on mine..... kinda redundant IMHO with SIO... I can just listen to tell it's working or watch the sector counter climb on the PC side.

This adapter works fine with SIO2OSX and SIOServer as well for mac users without real serial ports BTW.

Edited by kogden, Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:33 AM.


#34 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:29 AM

Thanks. I see on the schematic the two LED's that you mention. Since mine will be cased (hopefully), I'm probably not going to be able to use those. However, I do see the TXLED and RXLED solder rings, so I hope to use those for the external LED's. Quite a little board for $15 -- or even better at $10!

-Larry

#35 atari8warez OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:04 AM

Thanks. I see on the schematic the two LED's that you mention. Since mine will be cased (hopefully), I'm probably not going to be able to use those. However, I do see the TXLED and RXLED solder rings, so I hope to use those for the external LED's. Quite a little board for $15 -- or even better at $10!

-Larry


Larry, if you wan't a general purpose power+activity LED, you can wire it to the SIO7 line with a proper resistor. SIO7 is pulled high when there is no SIO activity but the computer is ON, so it can be used as a Power ON indicator, and is pulled low when commands are sent/received, thus can serve as an activity indicator and you can combine the two functions into one LED which would be the most cost effective "luxury" you can add to your SIO2PC.

Edited by atari8warez, Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:05 AM.


#36 Almost Rice OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:28 PM

The board was the FTDI FT232RL Breakout Board from SparkFun available here for $15....got mine when they were on sale for $10:
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/718

FT232RL.jpg


I remember when these were $6 each. prices sure have gone up.
I found another site selling a similar breakout board for $9 w $3 shipping

#37 kogden OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:38 PM

The board was the FTDI FT232RL Breakout Board from SparkFun available here for $15....got mine when they were on sale for $10:
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/718

FT232RL.jpg


I remember when these were $6 each. prices sure have gone up.
I found another site selling a similar breakout board for $9 w $3 shipping


Actually..... I like that one better, I'll have to remember that. It's a little smaller and all required pins are at back of board. $6 cheaper too. The jumper selectable voltage is handy. At that price even if you don't use it much it's worth getting.

#38 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:21 PM

In the web page instructions by the original poster, he suggests using female pin headers, inserted through, and soldered to the back of board. This would allow using a plug-in jumper, inserted in the pin header. Is that what you did? Is there a potential problem soldering directly to the board? Assuming that you didn't want to move it, seems like a surer connection if soldered directly to the board. (?)

-Larry

#39 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:09 AM

I finally got the pieces together to do this little project. Has someone completed one of these internal or external and could post a couple of (closeup) pics of the wired board for the project. I'm planning on making this as a "dongle" so that would be excellent if someone has done that type.

Thanks,
Larry

#40 Xuel OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:18 PM

I connected my FTDI board directly to the SIO connector on the Atari using female-to-male jumper wire:

sio2pc-usb3.jpg sio2pc-usb1.jpg sio2pc-usb2.jpg

I soldered female headers to the board per Kinnon Stephen's instructions, but this board from Sparkfun already has a female header so it could be a solder-free solution.

The obvious drawbacks to this are that it is hard to disconnect and reconnect and it has no enclosure.

#41 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:53 PM

Excellent -- thanks!!! That is very helpful!

I can't quite be sure of the SIO port connections (from the center picture). Can you confirm these, please:
(Pretty sure these are correct, but I just hate burning stuff up!)

Black wire to Atari SIO pin 4 (Gnd)
Red wire to Atari SIO pin 3 (Data In)
Blue Wire to Atari SIO pin 5 (Data Out)
Yellow Wire to Atari SIO pin 7 (Command)

The connections to the FTDI board are easy to see:
Black wire to Gnd
Red wire to TX-Out
Blue Wire to RX-In

-Larry

#42 atari8warez OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:21 PM


ATARI to breakout board

=========================

SIO 3 (Data In)	 ---------> TXD

SIO 4 (Grnd)   ---------> GND

SIO 5 (Data Out) ----------> RXD

SIO 7 (CMD)	 ----------> DSR/CTS or RI (could be more than one connection if a switch is employed)


Edited by atari8warez, Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:25 PM.


#43 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:27 PM

Thanks!
-Larry

ATARI to breakout board
=========================
SIO 3 (Data In)	 ---------> TXD
SIO 4 (Grnd) ---------> GND
SIO 5 (Data Out) ----------> RXD
SIO 7 (CMD)	 ----------> DSR/CTS or RI (could be more than one connection if a switch is employed)



#44 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:09 PM

No luck, yet. All I get is "Cannot open serial port 'Com3': The system cannot find the file specified.
Emulation stopped." As a check, Sloopy's little USB to Serial connector works fine with my setup.

I have my SIO cable wired as above, but with an SIO cable rather than jumpers. (My cable has the typical colors Purple=Command, Orange=Data In, Green=Data Out, Black=Gnd. all verified with a meter.)
TXO, RXI, and Gnd are connected at the end pads of the FTDI board. Command is connected to RI on the side. I also tried CTS and DSR with the same negative results.

I removed the solder connection on the jumper pad to the 3.3V terminal. I didn't see this anywhere, but is it necessary to make the solder connection to the 5V pad?
(My Pad is a "three terminal pad" [3.3 X 5] where "X" is the center terminal.

Any thoughts?

Also, virtually all SIO2PC schematics that I've seen call for a small signal diode attached to the SIO Data In line. I don't see anything in the FTDI. Is it required for safety of the Atari?

-Larry

#45 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:46 PM

Verifiy that this new project is 'COM3' and not 'COM-someother#'

#46 atari8warez OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:00 PM

No luck, yet. All I get is "Cannot open serial port 'Com3': The system cannot find the file specified.
Emulation stopped." As a check, Sloopy's little USB to Serial connector works fine with my setup.

I have my SIO cable wired as above, but with an SIO cable rather than jumpers. (My cable has the typical colors Purple=Command, Orange=Data In, Green=Data Out, Black=Gnd. all verified with a meter.)
TXO, RXI, and Gnd are connected at the end pads of the FTDI board. Command is connected to RI on the side. I also tried CTS and DSR with the same negative results.

I removed the solder connection on the jumper pad to the 3.3V terminal. I didn't see this anywhere, but is it necessary to make the solder connection to the 5V pad?
(My Pad is a "three terminal pad" [3.3 X 5] where "X" is the center terminal.

Any thoughts?

Also, virtually all SIO2PC schematics that I've seen call for a small signal diode attached to the SIO Data In line. I don't see anything in the FTDI. Is it required for safety of the Atari?

-Larry


The device needs to operate at +5v TTL levels, so you must bridge the x (center) to 5. The diode is not required.
And yes, check the device manager to see which COMxx was assigned to this device and use that COM port in your app. Quite possibly Sloopy's little connector already stole COM3 ;)

Edited by atari8warez, Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:12 PM.


#47 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:10 AM

Thanks, Roy & Ray -- "it lives!"

I had done the solder bridge to the 5V terminal, but it never dawned on me that I would need yet another Com port number. In retrospect, "new device = new com port number" makes perfect sense. That was it -- AspeQt ate Com4 without a burp, and it took right off. And thanks for the info on the diode. Today I can get it in a little case with an LED and I'll be all set.

-Larry

#48 atari8warez OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:29 AM

Thanks, Roy & Ray -- "it lives!"

I had done the solder bridge to the 5V terminal, but it never dawned on me that I would need yet another Com port number. In retrospect, "new device = new com port number" makes perfect sense. That was it -- AspeQt ate Com4 without a burp, and it took right off. And thanks for the info on the diode. Today I can get it in a little case with an LED and I'll be all set.

-Larry


Yeah, each serial port device needs its own port number. In fact this way you could run several sessions of AspeQt using different ports to serve more than one Atari.
Have fun....

#49 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:32 AM

I've got it cased up and have been putting it through its paces with AspeQt..

I had mentioned before that I couldn't get lower than Pokey 3 or 4 using AspeQt and Sloopy's SIO2USB ( ;) ) device. I was able to get to zero with this FTDI board and the high-speed code of the IDE+2. I did get several files trashed at zero using my HD backup program written in Action!. So zero looks like it may be a bit too much for this setup. Maybe a better sector copier might do better. But anyway, I'm very pleased with the results.

-Larry

#50 drac030 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:55 PM

I had mentioned before that I couldn't get lower than Pokey 3 or 4 using AspeQt and Sloopy's SIO2USB ( ;) ) device. I was able to get to zero with this FTDI board and the high-speed code of the IDE+2. I did get several files trashed at zero using my HD backup program written in Action!. So zero looks like it may be a bit too much for this setup. Maybe a better sector copier might do better. But anyway, I'm very pleased with the results.


I am using an FTDI board myself and I am very pleased with the results as well. Just from my experience in transferring larger amounts of data (yes, mainly HDD backup as well, with COPY /BR under Sparta X), I can say that HS Index 0 is a little bit unstable. It is so that the transmission goes well for, say, 20 minutes, then suddenly fails. Therefore I use HS Index 1. This one is rock-stable, and the speed is still good enough (about 11 KB/s).




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