66 replies to this topic

[Crapahute]

I think I have already showed it somewhere on the forum, but I found this article in Electronic Games (Jully 1983) describing the game :

[Pixelboy]

retroillucid, on Fri May 27, 2011 11:22 AM, said:

Pixelboy, on Fri May 27, 2011 11:17 AM, said:

By the way, was there only one "curve" screenshot in the press kit? I'm just wondering why you made two symetrical mockups.

Yes, there was only one in the Press Kit, however I made the right side simply to show both side    

Alright, but do you see the problem with the "other side"? On the side shown on the press release, you've got the horses running towards the camera, which implies that no matter how far behind the other horses are in relation to the leading horse, you will always see ALL the horses. In your other (symetrical) mockup, the horses must logically be seen from behind, which implies that if a horse falls far behind the pack, he will disappear off the bottom of the screen, and that's not a desirable effect.

Bottom line: You only need the vantage point shown on the press release for both curved sections of the track.  

[retroillucid]

Pixelboy, on Fri May 27, 2011 12:06 PM, said:

retroillucid, on Fri May 27, 2011 11:22 AM, said:

Pixelboy, on Fri May 27, 2011 11:17 AM, said:

By the way, was there only one "curve" screenshot in the press kit? I'm just wondering why you made two symetrical mockups.

Yes, there was only one in the Press Kit, however I made the right side simply to show both side    

Alright, but do you see the problem with the "other side"? On the side shown on the press release, you've got the horses running towards the camera, which implies that no matter how far behind the other horses are in relation to the leading horse, you will always see ALL the horses. In your other (symetrical) mockup, the horses must logically be seen from behind, which implies that if a horse falls far behind the pack, he will disappear off the bottom of the screen, and that's not a desirable effect.

Bottom line: You only need the vantage point shown on the press release for both curved sections of the track.  

Oh, I just noticed it ....  you're right Luc
Else can only use the Left Side for both side of the track, it would works great actually

Thanks for pointing this

[Ikrananka]

Pixelboy, on Fri May 27, 2011 11:05 AM, said:

Ikrananka, on Fri May 27, 2011 10:28 AM, said:

Personally, I think that the 3D layout looks too ambitious with the character/sprite scaling that would be involved and don't think that it would work well on the CV.  It also looks bland and unappealing and I would be concerned about trying to gauge how my horse is doing and its position when it becomes a small dot in the distance as it moves up the racetrack.

I could be wrong, but I think the camera is intended to follow the horses along the track in the curves. The guardrail on the inner side of the track could be animated, and the brown/black walls in the background could be animated in a similar manner, giving the illusion of forward movement.

That's just a guess on my part, of course.  

Doh!!!!  Of course - that makes sense.  Nevertheless, I really don't like the simplistic look of the Coleco screenshot, particularly as the gamplay then focusses on small sprites only in the lower left quadrant of the screen - a big waste of the screen.  I do agree that if else could apply the concept of the curves then that would be a great improvement to his game.

[Ikrananka]

Crapahute, on Fri May 27, 2011 11:30 AM, said:

I think I have already showed it somewhere on the forum, but I found this article in Electronic Games (Jully 1983) describing the game :

Cool.  Interesting info - so they had a gambling tilt to the game as well - or perhaps that was the main focus - much like the plethora of football (soccer) management games in the UK during the early 80's on the C64 and Spectrum.

The way the article reads is that the journalist had access to the game to play - or perhaps he was just reiterating info Coleco released to them as so many did then.

[else]

Another rev attached.  This one has:

- Menu selection system (a preliminary take on it, at least)
- Selection for number of players
- Selection for which horse you want to be
- Selection for number of laps
- Selection for track conditions (changes graphics, but has no actual affect on gameplay so far)
- Selection for wager (non functional yet)
- Race number counter
- Race timer

Still to do:
- Keep track of winning horses
- Implement wager system

I plan on finishing up this, then try to add a mode (selectable by the user) to have it look like the other version Coleco showed.  The more I think about it, it seems like it should be pretty do-able.  It's really the same game, just with the x and y axis reversed, and different graphics.  The core game engine should stay the same, I would think....

Attached Files

•  HorseRacingRev03.zip   7.14K   64 downloads

[NIAD]

Thanks for sharing these demos with us... it's always fun to have a chance to experience the evolution of a game from it's early beginnings and to even have a chance to chime in on different aspects of gameplay, etc.

A BIG +1 for you!

Since it sounds like you are going to include a wagering system in the game like Coleco originally planned for theirs, how about a Battery Backup, like CollectorVision's release of Lord of the Dungeon, to save all pertinent information.  

[Yurkie]

Nice job so far thanks for sharing.

I would like to make a suggestion to change the race distance from your current 1 to 8 laps, to number of furlongs.

Here is a piece of information I found on racing distances, with attribution given below.

"American Thoroughbred races are run at a wide variety of distances, most commonly from 5 to 12 furlongs (0.63 to 1.5 mi, 1.0 to 2.4 km); with this in mind, breeders of Thoroughbred race horses attempt to breed horses that excel at a particular distance."



Quoted from:

http://www.horsefact...orseracing.html

[else]

Pretty much everything is finished in this release (that I can think of, anyway).

- Keep track of times, and rank the winners.
- Implemented a simple wagering system.  I kept it as simple as possible, since to me nobody wants to place bets against a computer.  Was that ever any fun for anyone, even back in the early 1980s?
- Menus totally reworked.
- Computer AI substantially reworked and improved.
- Length of races now measured in furlongs.
- Stamina system implemented.  You now get a set amount at the beginning of the race.  This introduces a bit of strategy to the game.  The old system wasn't doing it for me -- horse racing should involve some strategy, in my opinion.

What do you guys think?  Did I miss anything?  Feedback appreciated!

P.S.  Unless you guys can think of anything, I think I'll work on converting this to the other (front) view from the Coleco flyer....

Attached Files

•  HorseRacingRev04.zip   9.72K   79 downloads

Edited by else, Thu Jun 2, 2011 2:02 PM.

[else]

P.P.S.  Oh yea, obviously I'm still missing sound.  I've gotten so used to it without sound, I don't even notice any more...

[Ikrananka]

Only played it a little and I like your improvements.  I would like to be able to manually enter the amount to be wagered though.

Thought I'd quickly report a bug.  After winning my second race by quite a wide margin I noticed that on the results screen that the times were all identical.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Edited by Ikrananka, Thu Jun 2, 2011 4:16 PM.

[Yurkie]

I don't to be rude, but unless you whip your horse the others are way ahead. Basically it seems to me that move to the rail, hold down the right fire button and hope for the best.

[retroillucid]

I like your improvments too

However, I'll definitely use the "curves" screens, that would look alot more nicer  
Looks like a straight line race for me....

Otherwise, keep up the great works!  

[Pixelboy]

retroillucid, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 4:34 PM, said:

I like your improvments too

However, I'll definitely use the "curves" screens, that would look alot more nicer  
Looks like a straight line race for me....

Wouldn't it stand to reason that the game was meant to use both types of displays? Start on the straight piece of track, then switch to the curved display when reaching the beginning of the curve in the track, then go back to the straight line display once the curve has been passed, then go back again to the curved didplay when reaching the other curve in the track, then go back to the straight line... Wash, rince, repeat.  

[else]

Yurkie, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 4:20 PM, said:

I don't to be rude, but unless you whip your horse the others are way ahead. Basically it seems to me that move to the rail, hold down the right fire button and hope for the best.

No offense taken -- I value all feedback....

Anyway, I'm not expert in horse racing, but isn't that how it generally works?  I thought the riders basically hit their horses the whole way around.  Anyhow, a strategy that works for me is that I try to get the early lead, then slow down and attempt to block the other horses from passing....

Maybe I need to cut down on the amount of stamina given out at the start of the game, to bring out the strategic elements a bit more.  What do you think?

Edited by else, Fri Jun 3, 2011 6:50 AM.

[else]

Ikrananka, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 4:15 PM, said:

Only played it a little and I like your improvements.  I would like to be able to manually enter the amount to be wagered though.

Thought I'd quickly report a bug.  After winning my second race by quite a wide margin I noticed that on the results screen that the times were all identical.

Hummmmmmmmm.  I haven't witnessed that yet.  Rats!

[else]

Pixelboy, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 5:32 PM, said:

retroillucid, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 4:34 PM, said:

I like your improvments too

However, I'll definitely use the "curves" screens, that would look alot more nicer  
Looks like a straight line race for me....

Wouldn't it stand to reason that the game was meant to use both types of displays? Start on the straight piece of track, then switch to the curved display when reaching the beginning of the curve in the track, then go back to the straight line display once the curve has been passed, then go back again to the curved didplay when reaching the other curve in the track, then go back to the straight line... Wash, rince, repeat.  

I will be (attempting) something like this with the version I do next that has the front camera view.

My guess is that the version Coleco showed in the original catalog was simply meant as a copy of the Intellivision game.  And the Intellivision game doesn't change perspective at all for curve vs straight.  In fact, according to the Intellivison manual, it's as if you are constantly going in a circle (which is totally unrealistic by the way), even though all you see is a straight.

[else]

Ikrananka, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 4:15 PM, said:

Only played it a little and I like your improvements.  I would like to be able to manually enter the amount to be wagered though.

Thought I'd quickly report a bug.  After winning my second race by quite a wide margin I noticed that on the results screen that the times were all identical.

The problem with letting you enter the amount wagered is that it makes the game too easy.  You could enter a huge amount of money and "show" every time.  So that's why I made them fixed amounts.  Any suggestions for how to avoid this problem?

[Ikrananka]

Well how about setting maximums on the bets - with lower maximums for Show and Place.  If set appropriately there would be motivation to try and bet high for Win.

else, on Fri Jun 3, 2011 8:47 AM, said:

Ikrananka, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 4:15 PM, said:

Only played it a little and I like your improvements.  I would like to be able to manually enter the amount to be wagered though.

Thought I'd quickly report a bug.  After winning my second race by quite a wide margin I noticed that on the results screen that the times were all identical.

The problem with letting you enter the amount wagered is that it makes the game too easy.  You could enter a huge amount of money and "show" every time.  So that's why I made them fixed amounts.  Any suggestions for how to avoid this problem?

[ChuckH]

Ikrananka, on Fri Jun 3, 2011 9:04 AM, said:

Well how about setting maximums on the bets - with lower maximums for Show and Place.  If set appropriately there would be motivation to try and bet high for Win.

else, on Fri Jun 3, 2011 8:47 AM, said:

Ikrananka, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 4:15 PM, said:

Only played it a little and I like your improvements.  I would like to be able to manually enter the amount to be wagered though.

Thought I'd quickly report a bug.  After winning my second race by quite a wide margin I noticed that on the results screen that the times were all identical.

The problem with letting you enter the amount wagered is that it makes the game too easy.  You could enter a huge amount of money and "show" every time.  So that's why I made them fixed amounts.  Any suggestions for how to avoid this problem?

This game is very similar to Intellivision's Horse Racing of 1980.Here's a Youtube video.


Else's game needs sound but otherwise it's very good. Thanks for sharing.

[else]

Just a couple of small changes to make the game a bit more challenging:

- You now lose the money you bet if you don't win the bet you made.
- You aren't allowed to bet more money than you have (essentially making it Game Over when you run out of money).

Attached Files

•  HorseRacingRev05.zip   9.93K   63 downloads

[NIAD]

Found this video for an MSX Horse Racing game called Exciting Jockey (Casio Daishogai Keiba):

http://1m1f.com/vide...39340;-mpg.html

[else]

Thanks for posting.  However, the game doesn't seem very 'exciting' to me.  Seems to run pretty slowly, and the horses have to remain in their own (invisible) lanes.  So there's no interaction or strategy to the game.  That's not real horse racing, imho....

[NIAD]

Yeah, it's not very exciting as I played it thru emulation. They also took the easier method of a straight linear track with a small oval representation of the track in the upper right corner... and they're running the wrong way!!!  

[else]

Some small updates:

- Found a small difference in where I was calculating the finish line depending on if the screen was scrolling or not scrolling when a horse crossed.
- Races that end in a tie should now be scored correctly.
- Now print a 'Game Over' message when a player runs out of money.

Attached Files

•  HorseRacingRev06.zip   10.11K   60 downloads