Real SNES vs Wii Virtual Console

[goldenegg]

I'll chime in here ...

 

I'm a huge fan of emulation, but I'm extremely picky about which emulators I use. I can happily say that the Virtual Console is pretty much perfect for the bulk of consoles it emulates. I've purchased over 200 VC titles and haven't regretted a single purchase.

 

Awww, how cute, he thinks he's purchased them.

 

Yes, I purchased them. The definition of purchase is " Acquire (something) by paying for it; buy", which is exactly what I did.

[Rex Dart]

Yes, but what you've purchased is Nintendo's gracious permission to play 'em until such time as Nintendo sees fit to withdraw that permission. But that's all I'm going to say on the subject of long-term paid ROM rentals.

[AtariLeaf]

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBWJZ-X9JBQ

 

2 player mode (not my video)

 

My wife and I played the battle mode about a month ago when we were on a SNES kick and had a blast.

[HatefulGravey]

 

Yes, I purchased them. The definition of purchase is " Acquire (something) by paying for it; buy", which is exactly what I did.

 

It sucks, and if you haven't heard this before I'm sorry to be the one to tell you. If you read the EULA when you download these games it clearly states you are paying for a license to play the game. When the DRM on this game runs up or Nintendo cancels it you can not longer play the game.

 

This is a terrible thing and a big reason to buy the real game. It might cost more, but Nintendo can't just come to your house and take it back.

[NinjaWarrior]

The real problem is if the Wii breaks, you can't transfer VC game you paid for on your new Wii

[BrianC]

From my earlier post in this thread:

 

The games are offline and I don't recall an instance of a game being dropped from the VC. I also heard that Nintendo puts the games on a new system if the old one breaks down and they repair it (there seems to be confusion over this, but I read about this on multiple sites). I agree the DRM is lame, but I don't agree it's the same as a rental since it's a one time price for the game that's in most cases available for a long time (that may possibly become unavailable over time, but as far as I know, hasn't yet).

[+thegoldenband]

Surprised that no one has suggested going the route of real SNES hardware + EverDrive. That way you get the best of both worlds. For months now, almost all my SNES purchases have been of cartridges that use enhancement chips, since everything else (i.e. 95% of the system's library) works on the EverDrive. I finally got one a couple weeks ago, and it's brilliant.

[Mark Wolfe]

That looks delicious! However, money to spend on that could be spent toward the actual console. I'll consider it if I still go the emu route of course. I noticed it goes into the GC port. Does this mean it'll be recognized as a Gamecube controller, and will this have any effect on SNES authenticity (like, a bit of incorrect button mapping)?

 

 

 

well, I don't think the cost is too high. you can use the controller on your original hardware & the Wii if you make your own cables and make a little adaptor using a multi-pin din plug and swap out the tips depending on what console you're on. the other o[eion is to buy the classic controller for the wiimote. it is sort of a cross between a gamecube controller and a playstation controller.

 

and yes, the wii thinks the controller is a gamecube controller, all the VC titles can use a GC controller so you're good to go.

 

 

[Mark Wolfe]

It is certainly cheaper to play with the VC instead of real hardware. It also demands less room and upkeep then a collection of games. There are good reasons to go that way. However, at that point you are only playing the games. You can't call that a collection because as soon as the Wii server stops supporting a game you are done playing it. You should think of the VC more like a rental program then a way to BUY things.

 

The major upside to collecting the real games is no DRM of any kind. There is a much better chance that I will be able to enjoy my copy of Star Fox long after DRM or poor quality hardware has ruined the VC download.

 

well, there is a work-around to that. install the homebrew channel and use the wad utilities to back up your purchased content. this way you can move them to a new wii if your old one breaks, assuming you put the homebrew channel on the new wii.

the homebrew channel is a great way to expand the usefulness of your Wii and do things that Nintendo currently does not allow you to do, like back up your expensive collection of downloadable content and run games from hard drive or sd card, backup your game saves and other downloadable content, you never run out of room for VC games... I won't even get into the hbc's emulators which are al pretty awesome, you can google that on your own.

 

hbc gives you the control over your investment that should have been provided from the day the wii launched.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Mark Wolfe

[Lorfarius]

It is certainly cheaper to play with the VC instead of real hardware. It also demands less room and upkeep then a collection of games. There are good reasons to go that way. However, at that point you are only playing the games. You can't call that a collection because as soon as the Wii server stops supporting a game you are done playing it. You should think of the VC more like a rental program then a way to BUY things.

 

Stuff bought from the VC is saved to the Wii or even an external storage drive. Even if the server goes belly up you can still play the games on your system, true you won't be able to download it again but once you have it, its yours.

[HatefulGravey]

Surprised that no one has suggested going the route of real SNES hardware + EverDrive. That way you get the best of both worlds. For months now, almost all my SNES purchases have been of cartridges that use enhancement chips, since everything else (i.e. 95% of the system's library) works on the EverDrive. I finally got one a couple weeks ago, and it's brilliant.

 

Everdrive products are cool for those that can get them. That is to say if you happen to have the $100+ to blow the one day every few months you can buy one. I understand the price, what I have never understood is why they are ALWAYS back ordered with no idea of when new ones will be around to buy. I would love to own a Sega and SNES Everdrive, but as soon as they are for sale they are sold out with no hope to get more anytime soon. Sure, they are great, but they are not an option for most people just because most people can't buy them.

 

 

Stuff bought from the VC is saved to the Wii or even an external storage drive. Even if the server goes belly up you can still play the games on your system, true you won't be able to download it again but once you have it, its yours.

 

This is true of a some games, but not all. Some games have different EULAs that require you to be online and logged into the server to play those games. Also, with this generation of consoles being about the poorist quality I have ever seen the chances of your system working in another 5 years aren't looking really good.

 

I understand the legal questions of it all, but why not emulate for Free on a PC? Is there anything the VC runs that you just can't get an emulator for? Hell, even then you are getting around DRM, and you don't have to spend anything.

[BrianC]

This is true of a some games, but not all. Some games have different EULAs that require you to be online and logged into the server to play those games. Also, with this generation of consoles being about the poorist quality I have ever seen the chances of your system working in another 5 years aren't looking really good.

 

Which games? VC or WiiWare? All of the games I have, AFAIK, are playable offline. Not all VC games are distributed by the same company, so that may be part of it. As far as console quality, I heard Wii is one of the better made consoles and that the problems with X360 and PS3 may be overblown.

 

I understand the legal questions of it all, but why not emulate for Free on a PC? Is there anything the VC runs that you just can't get an emulator for? Hell, even then you are getting around DRM, and you don't have to spend anything.

 

I wish this didn't always come up in topics about emulated games. The games, in most cases, aren't free. I don't like DRM either and prefer real carts. For emu, I prefer released homebrews, protos, and games available for download with permission from the owners. I wish more companies made their games available to play on emulators. I use Stella to play the 2600 games in 80 in 1, though.

 

It seems most companies have crappy policies towards older games, though. Sales of any used game are discouraged (in print games I can understand, but not for stuff they no longer profit on). Emulation collections are often half hearted with a couple games that are better emulated or ported elsewhere. I'm not fond of how even handhelds are getting more region locked content either.

Edited June 20, 2011 by BrianC

[Rex Dart]

Everdrive products are cool for those that can get them. That is to say if you happen to have the $100+ to blow the one day every few months you can buy one. I understand the price, what I have never understood is why they are ALWAYS back ordered with no idea of when new ones will be around to buy. I would love to own a Sega and SNES Everdrive, but as soon as they are for sale they are sold out with no hope to get more anytime soon. Sure, they are great, but they are not an option for most people just because most people can't buy them.

 

Heh... only at StoneAgeGamer. There are other sellers who appear to have them in stock quite often. It's only because SAG puts together such a nice package that they're so often sold out.

 

The other sellers sell the assembled-but-caseless PCB for you to put in your own cart shell. Costs about $80 (instead of $100+). I'm thinking about getting an ED-MD if I find out I'm able to put it in an EA shell.

[HatefulGravey]

I wish this didn't always come up in topics about emulated games. The games, in most cases, aren't free. I don't like DRM either and prefer real carts. For emu, I prefer released homebrews, protos, and games available for download with permission from the owners. I wish more companies made their games available to play on emulators. I use Stella to play the 2600 games in 80 in 1, though.

 

It seems most companies have crappy policies towards older games, though. Sales of any used game are discouraged (in print games I can understand, but not for stuff they no longer profit on). Emulation collections are often half hearted with a couple games that are better emulated or ported elsewhere. I'm not fond of how even handhelds are getting more region locked content either.

 

I said I understood the legal issues around emulation on the PC. Let me now explain the moral issues around you paying for a DRM filled emulation on the VC.

 

You get nothing for your money and the company making the game takes a crap ton less risk and spends a crap ton less money, and you still pay full price for DLC gaming. It works like this. When Nintendo release Mario RPG they programmed the game, printing the PCB for the game, packaged the game, shipped the game, and sold the game. When the release it as DLC they at most program the game and release the game. If 5 people buy it they aren't stuck with every other copy made just sitting around. They cut a pile of cost without saving you a dime in a lot of these cases anymore. Look at xBox and PS3 selling games on demand. There are Greatest Hits titles and full Greatest Hits price with none of the product.

 

So why is this such a bad thing? I mean, the company making good money isn't illegal at all, and if the customer thinkgs the deal is good why not just let this roll? Well, if the company doesn't have to risk the money on printing the game, packaging the game, and shipping the game and they sell the game for the same money then whats to stop them from releasing more shit titles then they already do? Nothing. They risk less so they can release more crap at a lower price point for them and you wouldn't know it was shit until you had paid for it.

 

Have you ever played a game and thought it was great, only to buy another copy later and find that they have patched something that changed the game play dramatically? You play the first release of a PS1 game and like it, but the Greatest Hits version has something taken out, changed, or replaced that changes what you think of the game. Well, when everything is DLC all the games will be the same. If the company that made Duke Nukem starts to get too much crap for the mostly naked girls in the game then they release a patch you have to download to play the game that covers them up. Its not the end of the world, but it is censorship, and when you don't own the game there is nothing you can do about it.

 

There are 100 good reasons not to support the kind of thing VC makes popular. There are 100 reasons why the companies behind it love this deal. There are 100 different threads that talk about this on 100s of different forums. I have no intention of turning this into a conversation about DLC gaming, but well, this conversation started out that way with the OP.

 

A "gamer" might not mind the DLC only thing until its too late, but a gaming conservationist knows exactly what is going on here. Real SNES vs VC... its acutally kind of hard for me to believe we are still talking about this in the classic gaming forum at AA.

 

/rant

[BrianC]

I wish this didn't always come up in topics about emulated games. The games, in most cases, aren't free. I don't like DRM either and prefer real carts. For emu, I prefer released homebrews, protos, and games available for download with permission from the owners. I wish more companies made their games available to play on emulators. I use Stella to play the 2600 games in 80 in 1, though.

 

It seems most companies have crappy policies towards older games, though. Sales of any used game are discouraged (in print games I can understand, but not for stuff they no longer profit on). Emulation collections are often half hearted with a couple games that are better emulated or ported elsewhere. I'm not fond of how even handhelds are getting more region locked content either.

 

I said I understood the legal issues around emulation on the PC. Let me now explain the moral issues around you paying for a DRM filled emulation on the VC.

 

You get nothing for your money and the company making the game takes a crap ton less risk and spends a crap ton less money, and you still pay full price for DLC gaming. It works like this. When Nintendo release Mario RPG they programmed the game, printing the PCB for the game, packaged the game, shipped the game, and sold the game. When the release it as DLC they at most program the game and release the game. If 5 people buy it they aren't stuck with every other copy made just sitting around. They cut a pile of cost without saving you a dime in a lot of these cases anymore. Look at xBox and PS3 selling games on demand. There are Greatest Hits titles and full Greatest Hits price with none of the product.

 

So why is this such a bad thing? I mean, the company making good money isn't illegal at all, and if the customer thinkgs the deal is good why not just let this roll? Well, if the company doesn't have to risk the money on printing the game, packaging the game, and shipping the game and they sell the game for the same money then whats to stop them from releasing more shit titles then they already do? Nothing. They risk less so they can release more crap at a lower price point for them and you wouldn't know it was shit until you had paid for it.

 

Have you ever played a game and thought it was great, only to buy another copy later and find that they have patched something that changed the game play dramatically? You play the first release of a PS1 game and like it, but the Greatest Hits version has something taken out, changed, or replaced that changes what you think of the game. Well, when everything is DLC all the games will be the same. If the company that made Duke Nukem starts to get too much crap for the mostly naked girls in the game then they release a patch you have to download to play the game that covers them up. Its not the end of the world, but it is censorship, and when you don't own the game there is nothing you can do about it.

 

There are 100 good reasons not to support the kind of thing VC makes popular. There are 100 reasons why the companies behind it love this deal. There are 100 different threads that talk about this on 100s of different forums. I have no intention of turning this into a conversation about DLC gaming, but well, this conversation started out that way with the OP.

 

A "gamer" might not mind the DLC only thing until its too late, but a gaming conservationist knows exactly what is going on here. Real SNES vs VC... its acutally kind of hard for me to believe we are still talking about this in the classic gaming forum at AA.

 

/rant

 

You didn't read my previous posts, did you? If you did, you wouldn't be telling me what I already know. I even mentioned that I didn't agree with DRM and that I prefer the real carts and I get told why the VC is bad (I'm not even defending the VC, just disagreeing based of what I heard)? Why do I even bother trying to post everything when only one thing I said gets replied to and everything else gets ignored? This is happening waaaaay to often on forums and it's super annoying.

 

Anyway, I understood what you said about knowing the legal issues, but I disagreed with it because you basically said "why not download games for free anyway, despite disagreeing with it". It was not very respectful.

 

I don't know why censorship is being brought up. I know it happens, but as you said, it's not limited to VC. Negative changes can still be experienced in PC emulation, as well. I disagree with censorship BTW and have even imported some games that have been censored (mostly ones with significant differences, though). The censorship thing isn't so cut and dry either. It's not like the actual carts are rewriteable and there censored games that are near impossible to play in their only uncensored form if you don't know the language.

 

I also asked specific questions in my previous post that have been ignored.

Edited June 20, 2011 by BrianC

[HatefulGravey]

I never meant to insult, but posting my opinion about DRM and VC ideals seems to have upset you. Sorry. I typed up 2 different responces to your post, but you changed it atleast twice so now I'll just walk away from this before things get worse. Sorry we have differnt opinions.

[BrianC]

I never meant to insult, but posting my opinion about DRM and VC ideals seems to have upset you. Sorry. I typed up 2 different responces to your post, but you changed it atleast twice so now I'll just walk away from this before things get worse. Sorry we have differnt opinions.

 

It's not your opinion that bothers me. The problem is that you never directly responded to my opinion and ignored points like the games not being taken down as of yet (if this is wrong, you could at least tell me why) and Nintendo restoring the games if you send the Wii to them for repairs (and if you need, I can link to sources, but since you rather tell me I'm wrong instead of listening to what I have to say...). I wasn't even defending the VC and you replied to me like a VC fanboy, Not cool!

 

BTW, the main thing I have a problem with is how these games are treated as if they should be free because you can illegally download them. Many compliations don't get rated over a 7 now, regardless of game quality, because of this. Despite this I don't have a problem with people using emulation, but I don't feel it's very respectful when someone gets asked why they don't like to pirate games.

 

Also, I can't edit my posts? I added things rather than changed and I feel I should say more if there is more to be said. It's not like I can't make mistakes.

Edited June 20, 2011 by BrianC

[HatefulGravey]

It's not your opinion that bothers me. The problem is that you never directly responded to my opinion and ignored points like the games not being taken down as of yet (if this is wrong, you could at least tell me why) and Nintendo restoring the games if you send the Wii to them for repairs (and if you need, I can link to sources, but since you rather tell me I'm wrong instead of listening to what I have to say...). I wasn't even defending the VC and you replied to me like a VC fanboy, Not cool!

 

I thought I did a decent job of replying to your post. I'll admit I said more then I needed to. Not every inch of that was a direct reply to you. Replying to what I did made me think of a way to better express my opinion about these things.

 

I don't use my Wii for much of anything, so I was speaking to DRM in general. As for games removed from servers, there have been many tracks for music based games taken down over the years, I know Robotron 2084 was taken off XBLA over a year ago now because of DRM. I can't list games that have been taken down or games that can't be played off line. I didn't mean to completely inform you, I meant to provide a good reason to look more in these things.

 

Also, you still don't own the games even if Nintendo will move them for you when they repair your hardware. What heppens in 5 years when Nintendo no longer repairs the Wii and yours breaks? You have no way to get those "games" you paid for back.

 

You read my post looking for me to call you a VC fan boy if you read that in there. I made a point about DRM and emulation, nothing more. I guess my sin was starting my post with a reply to yours. I started off defending my post as you said that you couldn't understand why post about emulation always ended up talking about the legal aspects of it.

 

If you look for anything hard enough you will find it. I'm not sure why you were looking for me to insult you, and I have no idea where you found it, but I'm as sorry as I know how to be. Peace be with you.

[BrianC]

Also, you still don't own the games even if Nintendo will move them for you when they repair your hardware. What heppens in 5 years when Nintendo no longer repairs the Wii and yours breaks? You have no way to get those "games" you paid for back.

 

I'm sure you didn't intend to insult me, but that's how it came off (and no I was not looking for it). I know about Nintendo's EULA and I agree it's lame. I never said that you owned the games and said in a previous post that the games would possibly become unavailable over time. Anyway, sorry for the confusion.

 

From my previous post:

The games are offline and I don't recall an instance of a game being dropped from the VC. I also heard that Nintendo puts the games on a new system if the old one breaks down and they repair it (there seems to be confusion over this, but I read about this on multiple sites). I agree the DRM is lame, but I don't agree it's the same as a rental since it's a one time price for the game that's in most cases available for a long time (that may possibly become unavailable over time, but as far as I know, hasn't yet).

 

Also, I heard that you keep the 360 download content and that PS3 and 360s DRM isn't as bad, so that's why I assumed it was about Wii. I know some 360 games were removed from the shop, but as far as I know, you could still play them.

Edited June 20, 2011 by BrianC

[HatefulGravey]

I can say from experience that the 360 has some bad DRM, and the PS3 has some that is worse then bad.

[NinjaWarrior]

Bump..

 

The Only Games I'm buying on the VC is

 

Bonks Adventure TG16

SF2 Champion Edition PCE

 

and it stay on Topic..

 

Will Nintendo ever going to let people transfer game they bought?? If your Wii breaks you SOL,

[mbd30]

"Super Metroid" and "Secret of Mana" are the greatest games ever.

 

I loved "Donkey Kong Country 2" when I played through it fairly recently in emulation. The later stages are a good challenge.

 

"Actraiser" is super short and easy, but fun while it lasts. Avoid the unplayable sequel.

 

"Contra III" is great looking but suffers from being too hard, IMO. Plus you don't get the _real_ ending unless you beat it in hard mode.

 

I like "Super Castlevania IV". It might seem a little boring at first because it starts easy. The challenge doesn't kick in until the third stage with the mermen. But I recommend giving this one a chance.

[Megaman Legends]

I would just buy a Snes much more fun than trying to use the Wii controller...

 

Also the Snes has a better library of games on it than the virtual console like Earthbound or some other gems that weren't ported over yet.

[BydoEmpire]

Depends what you're looking for. If you just want to play a few games I'd lean VC. I generally prefer real hardware, but I like the VC for some things. The VC controller is good, the snapshot feature is great, it's less space, and the emulation is spot on. Around here, SNES games are fairly expensive, especially good ones. The VC games aren't cheap, but they're not totally out of line IMHO. I sold my SNES and collection a little while back because it just wasn't a system I was playing, so for me if there was a SNES game I really wanted, I'd just pick it up on VC if available.

 

You can't call that a collection because as soon as the Wii server stops supporting a game you are done playing it. You can't call that a collection because as soon as the Wii server stops supporting a game you are done playing it.

There's no tie to online - once you buy it, you have it and can play it any time. As long as your Wii doesn't die. That said, while the Wii seems to be a pretty reliable console, it's not going to last forever. I'd wager a real SNES and carts will outlive the Wii.

[cparsley]

Why don't you save money, put the Homebrew channel up on your Wii, and the have the SNES emulator running on the Wii and place whatever SNES titles you want on a SD card... I got the entire SNES library (including european and japanese titles) zipped up and fitting on a 2GB SD card on the machine, with room for Super Star Fighter, the Wii spaceship music game, and a few others like Open TTD.