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Temple of Apshai Trilogy Maps


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#101 leech ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 PM

Someone needs to make a Cartridge / Box edition with menus to play each of the games.  Though it'd be even better in a VBXE upgraded edition... or even an edition where all of the maps / encounters are upgraded to the Apshai Trilogy 'engine'.

 

I'd settle for option 1.  I sadly only ever really  played the trilogy and gateway and Hellfire Warrior.  And I never completed any of them (they get really hard!)



#102 ballyalley OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:53 PM

I need to start playing this!

 

Those pictures of the original Apshai games in their boxes are great.  Have you had them all a long time, or did you pick them up recently?

 

Adam



#103 Bill Lange OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:03 PM

I've had them for a few years, at least.  Probably not more then 5 years.

 

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#104 ballyalley OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:16 PM

Someone needs to make a Cartridge / Box edition with menus to play each of the games.  Though it'd be even better in a VBXE upgraded edition... or even an edition where all of the maps / encounters are upgraded to the Apshai Trilogy 'engine'.

 

I'd settle for option 1.  I sadly only ever really  played the trilogy and gateway and Hellfire Warrior.  And I never completed any of them (they get really hard!)

 

While I've heard of the VBXE, I have never watched a video of it in action until now.  I just watched this video:

 

 

That hardware upgrade is impressive!  The graphics and colors remind me of the Amiga 500.

 

It would be neat to able to play all of the Dunjonquest games from cartridge, but I'd prefer the game to just use the regular chipset (not the VBXE) of the Atari, as otherwise it would really limit the audience.  Plus, an Atari VBXE Apshai game would look pretty-much like the Atari ST or Amiga versions already look now.

 

It would be great to see Hellfire Warrior use the same engine as The Temple of Apshai Trilogy, especially since there is no Atari 8-bit dump that works 100% of at least one game in the Hellfire Warrior trilogy.  I've always disliked how easy it is to get fatigued in the original games.

 

The original Dunjonquest games that are part of the Temple of Apshai trilogy were made a little easier when the three games were re-released in 1985 as one package.  Of course, the graphics and gameplay were also improved.  If you play the game in level order (1-4), then the game is "beatable."  There isn't really a way to beat the Apshai games, but you can certainly not get killed quite so easily once you gain some good magical weapons and armor and have overpowered some foes in the earlier levels to earn some experience points to gain several levels.

 

Adam



#105 McDeath OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 1, 2018 10:04 PM

I played the tape versions of temple of apshai and upper reaches on c64. I liked its creepy music, sound effects, and everything. I have tried emulations of the trilogy and can't say i was a fan.

The upper reaches benedics monastary does have an end to antmen. I counted some years ago on c64 and it was either 99 or 199. It was a lot. Many rooms have multiple monsters you had to count. When a different one appears like say you kill 12 zombies then a antman appears you have your count. Soooo... One could try to count all the monsters per room per system.

#106 leech ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 1, 2018 10:17 PM

There have been talks of the Epyx IP being bought in the Jaguar forums, and quite frankly if there were one game (or series of games)  that I would LOVE to see ported / enhanced for the Jaguar, it'd be the Apshai games.  http://atariage.com/...yx#entry3946322

 

Okay, to be fair, the thread started off talking about Microprose IP.  But could you imagine a nicely updated series of Apshai games on the Jaguar?  Would love that!


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#107 Lord Thag OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 2, 2018 10:34 AM

 

 

The original Dunjonquest games that are part of the Temple of Apshai trilogy were made a little easier when the three games were re-released in 1985 as one package.  Of course, the graphics and gameplay were also improved.  If you play the game in level order (1-4), then the game is "beatable."  There isn't really a way to beat the Apshai games, but you can certainly not get killed quite so easily once you gain some good magical weapons and armor and have overpowered some foes in the earlier levels to earn some experience points to gain several levels.

 

This. I had never devoted any time to playing these until last year, when this thread inspired me to do so. I have now 'beaten' (seen all there is to see) the first three Apshai games. They are quite playable once you get used to the old-style control scheme. Next up is Datestones of Ryn, followed by Hellfire Warrior, if I can find the game for cheap. I like using the original manual to read the room descriptions. 

This series really needs to be updated or have someone do a retro spiritual sequel. It's very a fun series. 



#108 icetique OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:19 PM

Hello everybody.

 

First of all, thank you @ballyalley for these wonderful maps and descriptions. I followed them one by one and they are brilliant. However I wanted to finish the trilogy and I ended up on the last level.

 

I am playing Commodore 64 Trilogy version and I was able to find all the rooms, but I am unable to find Treasure #10. I cannot find it anywhere, dunno if it is a bug in the Commodore 64 version or the "magic" itself as you mentioned couple of times.

 

I even created my own maps of the last level to check if I am doing somewhere an error in my research.

 

l1.png

 

 

l2.png

 

l3.png

 

l4.png

 

X1 DUST TRAP
X2 CEILING TRAP
X3 CEILING TRAP
X4 CAVEIN TRAP
X5 CAVEIN TRAP
X6 CAVEIN TRAP
X7 FLAME TRAP
X8 DUST TRAP
X9 SPEAR TRAP
X10 CAVEIN TRAP


#109 icetique OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:53 AM

The manual says about T10:

 

At the head of the statue you find, embedded in the wall, with light pouring through it, a large ruby. OHHHHHH! It must by an eye. You remember seeing it from below.

 

Which suggests, that the T10 should be in rooms 38-42, as the manual says:

Room 38-42 - Imagine that! The thing is hollow with intricate and tricky passages leading up the legs and into the chest and head!

 

My bet is, it should be in the Room 41 as this room is in the top (which suggests head, not chest) and also it has the wall on the side visible from bottom. I checked the wall and all the room, also checked other Rooms, but I could not find anything. Did you pass this level with all Treasures? I also tried the non-trilogy version a few minutes before and also there is nothing there.



#110 ballyalley OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:38 AM

First of all, thank you @ballyalley for these wonderful maps and descriptions. I followed them one by one and they are brilliant. However I wanted to finish the trilogy and I ended up on the last level.


I'm glad that "Icetique" enjoyed the maps and has been able to use them.  It's double-plus extra-cool to see that it appears he joined AtariAge just to post your maps and comment on The Temple of Apshai.  Since he made his own maps of the last level, I think he may be the only person who can truly understand how long it takes to make these maps.  "Icetique," it's not an easy task, is it?

 

I also like that "Icetique" played the Commodore 64 version of the game, which is the version I played in the mid-1980s.  If you get a chance, "Icetique," try the Atari version under emulation; they're both very similar to each other.  The best-looking version are the Amiga and Atari ST ports of the "Trilogy," but I don't like how they play.

 

"Icetique," do you plan to play the true Apsahi sequel, Hellfire Warrior, next?  This game isn't as nice, as it was written in BASIC.  I don't think that it was released for the Commodore 64, so you'll have to play another version (the Atari version would be preferable).  My experience with Hellfire Warrior under Atari emulation is that it doesn't play quite right.  About two years, I did map the first level of Hellfire Warrior, but it required using save states to get around the saving error.  I think the original disk should be dumped again, if anyone has it available.
 

I am playing Commodore 64 Trilogy version and I was able to find all the rooms, but I am unable to find Treasure #10. I cannot find it anywhere, dunno if it is a bug in the Commodore 64 version or the "magic" itself as you mentioned couple of times.

 
Treasure 10 (the Crystal) is also missing from the Atari 8-bit version of the Curse of Ra.  I finished the fourth level of the Curse of Ra back in May of 2015 or so.  The maps were 99% finished.  The text that would accompany the level was nearly complete too.  I thought that the only thing left to do was to find that missing treasure.  I continued to look for it off and on, but I never did come across it.  Now that I know someone else couldn't find it either (in another version of the game, no less!), I'll post a slightly-edited snippet about the missing treasure and my theory on where the treasure was meant to be in the game.
 
There are no descriptions for Rooms 36 and 37.  These rooms don't appear to exist. The Room Descriptions skip from 35 to 38-42.  I've tried examining every wall, but these two rooms really don't exist.  I wonder if this was done on purpose, or if it was an accident?  Either way, the programmers (and/or those who wrote the manual) knew about it, because otherwise a description of some sort would exist in the manual, but perhaps the rooms would not be in the game. Maybe the missing Treasure 10 (Crystal) was meant to be in one of these rooms.
 
I'll try to post my own maps of the final level of The Curse of Ra in the next few weeks, along with some detailed room descriptions that I wrote on how to navigate the Statue of Ra.  Another reason I never posted the maps for this level was because I wanted to write a short story that will conclude the tale, and have details of what happens when the curse is broken.
 
By the way, the fourth level of the Curse of Ra is my favorite level of the twelve levels in the Temple of Apshai Trilogy.  I think it's because I put so much effort into the level while I was searching for the missing Crystal.  I'm really happy to see that someone else explored the game enough to also discover that this treasure is missing.
 
Adam



#111 Lord Thag OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:54 PM

I'm glad that "Icetique" enjoyed the maps and has been able to use them.  It's double-plus extra-cool to see that it appears he joined AtariAge just to post your maps and comment on The Temple of Apshai.  Since he made his own maps of the last level, I think he may be the only person who can truly understand how long it takes to make these maps.  "Icetique," it's not an easy task, is it?

 

I also like that "Icetique" played the Commodore 64 version of the game, which is the version I played in the mid-1980s.  If you get a chance, "Icetique," try the Atari version under emulation; they're both very similar to each other.  The best-looking version are the Amiga and Atari ST ports of the "Trilogy," but I don't like how they play.

 

"Icetique," do you plan to play the true Apsahi sequel, Hellfire Warrior, next?  This game isn't as nice, as it was written in BASIC.  I don't think that it was released for the Commodore 64, so you'll have to play another version (the Atari version would be preferable).  My experience with Hellfire Warrior under Atari emulation is that it doesn't play quite right.  About two years, I did map the first level of Hellfire Warrior, but it required using save states to get around the saving error.  I think the original disk should be dumped again, if anyone has it available.
 

 
Treasure 10 (the Crystal) is also missing from the Atari 8-bit version of the Curse of Ra.  I finished the fourth level of the Curse of Ra back in May of 2015 or so.  The maps were 99% finished.  The text that would accompany the level was nearly complete too.  I thought that the only thing left to do was to find that missing treasure.  I continued to look for it off and on, but I never did come across it.  Now that I know someone else couldn't find it either (in another version of the game, no less!), I'll post a slightly-edited snippet about the missing treasure and my theory on where the treasure was meant to be in the game.
 
There are no descriptions for Rooms 36 and 37.  These rooms don't appear to exist. The Room Descriptions skip from 35 to 38-42.  I've tried examining every wall, but these two rooms really don't exist.  I wonder if this was done on purpose, or if it was an accident?  Either way, the programmers (and/or those who wrote the manual) knew about it, because otherwise a description of some sort would exist in the manual, but perhaps the rooms would not be in the game. Maybe the missing Treasure 10 (Crystal) was meant to be in one of these rooms.
 
I'll try to post my own maps of the final level of The Curse of Ra in the next few weeks, along with some detailed room descriptions that I wrote on how to navigate the Statue of Ra.  Another reason I never posted the maps for this level was because I wanted to write a short story that will conclude the tale, and have details of what happens when the curse is broken.
 
By the way, the fourth level of the Curse of Ra is my favorite level of the twelve levels in the Temple of Apshai Trilogy.  I think it's because I put so much effort into the level while I was searching for the missing Crystal.  I'm really happy to see that someone else explored the game enough to also discover that this treasure is missing.
 
Adam

I just hit this level a couple of months ago as well. I'll look at my notes when I get home, but as I recall I did not find Room #10 either. I find it hard to believe that it's completely missing in BOTH ports though, especially given how weird some of the puzzles in Ra actually are. I wonder if we are missing something?



#112 icetique OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:04 PM

I'm glad that "Icetique" enjoyed the maps and has been able to use them.  It's double-plus extra-cool to see that it appears he joined AtariAge just to post your maps and comment on The Temple of Apshai.  Since he made his own maps of the last level, I think he may be the only person who can truly understand how long it takes to make these maps.  "Icetique," it's not an easy task, is it?

 

Yes, it is quite challenging, but I would say, that was the best thing you did to not include the last level map as I was able to truly enjoy the game, never knowing what coming next! I suggest anyone who want to try this games to try it without maps, although it may be quite challenging especially when your character has no experience in the beginning. I think the hardest level was 1-4.

 

I also like that "Icetique" played the Commodore 64 version of the game, which is the version I played in the mid-1980s.  If you get a chance, "Icetique," try the Atari version under emulation; they're both very similar to each other.  The best-looking version are the Amiga and Atari ST ports of the "Trilogy," but I don't like how they play.

 

I tried DOS version first and I was very disappointed, I would face the truth - they are probably bugged (at least the trilogy). Later I saw your conclusions on DOS versions and I was happy that I didn't play them longer (although I was able to run Trilogy only, not the first versions). I tried Atari version to check this T10 and I enjoyed it, seems as much playable as Commodore version! I didn't try Amiga/Atari though and probably I am not going to.

 

"Icetique," do you plan to play the true Apsahi sequel, Hellfire Warrior, next?  This game isn't as nice, as it was written in BASIC.  I don't think that it was released for the Commodore 64, so you'll have to play another version (the Atari version would be preferable).  My experience with Hellfire Warrior under Atari emulation is that it doesn't play quite right.  About two years, I did map the first level of Hellfire Warrior, but it required using save states to get around the saving error.  I think the original disk should be dumped again, if anyone has it available.

 

It seems this one was not so popular as the first part. Too bad they didn't release Hellfire Trilogy. :) I was able to run it under emulation, started fighting with Giant Ant or something similiar, but I will probably give it up, it's not so responsive as the Trilogy 1985.

 

Treasure 10 (the Crystal) is also missing from the Atari 8-bit version of the Curse of Ra.  I finished the fourth level of the Curse of Ra back in May of 2015 or so.  The maps were 99% finished.  The text that would accompany the level was nearly complete too.  I thought that the only thing left to do was to find that missing treasure.  I continued to look for it off and on, but I never did come across it.  Now that I know someone else couldn't find it either (in another version of the game, no less!), I'll post a slightly-edited snippet about the missing treasure and my theory on where the treasure was meant to be in the game.

 

Can't wait for this, your work is brilliant! I was laughing at myself that you probably didn't release the last one description because you are still looking for T10, but now I see I was partially right! :)

 

There are no descriptions for Rooms 36 and 37.  These rooms don't appear to exist. The Room Descriptions skip from 35 to 38-42.  I've tried examining every wall, but these two rooms really don't exist.  I wonder if this was done on purpose, or if it was an accident?  Either way, the programmers (and/or those who wrote the manual) knew about it, because otherwise a description of some sort would exist in the manual, but perhaps the rooms would not be in the game. Maybe the missing Treasure 10 (Crystal) was meant to be in one of these rooms.

 

Wow, being so overwhelmed by examining the walls I didn't notice the lack of 36-37! This definitely has something in common with the missing treasure! Good to hear you examined all of the walls so I do not have to do it myself. :D

 

I think we have two possibilities, either reassemble the game and try to find the room data there, something that will give us the clue or go the easy way and try to contact the authors to give us some clue which can reveal the mystery behind it. I wonder which game is the easiest one to disassembly, I already tried the C64 version, but it contains packed data into PRG files, without deep knowledge of the C64 and assembly itself it is hard to do something. I will try some day with DOS version I think (although it is magically (as you said) bugged (as I said), so there is a chance that the answer isn't there!). 

 

I'll try to post my own maps of the final level of The Curse of Ra in the next few weeks, along with some detailed room descriptions that I wrote on how to navigate the Statue of Ra.  Another reason I never posted the maps for this level was because I wanted to write a short story that will conclude the tale, and have details of what happens when the curse is broken.
 
By the way, the fourth level of the Curse of Ra is my favorite level of the twelve levels in the Temple of Apshai Trilogy.  I think it's because I put so much effort into the level while I was searching for the missing Crystal.  I'm really happy to see that someone else explored the game enough to also discover that this treasure is missing.

 

Sure, can't wait for your thread to be a complete, best guide available on the web! You really put a lot of effort and probably love into it. Actually this game is better than some new games once you get into it. I also had a lot of fun with Akalabeth (Ultima 0), going deep into dungeons, it was hard to start playing, but once you find the way it is more than enjoyable. I think I tried to run the Trilogy for two days finding the best playable version. To understand the atari tapes, cassettes and BASIC was quite challenging too as it is hard to find info on the internet on such old systems.

 

 

I wonder if we are missing something?

 

I bet we are. Missing T10 could be a bug, but connecting it with missing rooms 36-37 it seems like game magic to me.



#113 Lord Thag OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:31 PM

 

 

Sure, can't wait for your thread to be a complete, best guide available on the web! You really put a lot of effort and probably love into it. Actually this game is better than some new games once you get into it. I also had a lot of fun with Akalabeth (Ultima 0), going deep into dungeons, it was hard to start playing, but once you find the way it is more than enjoyable. I think I tried to run the Trilogy for two days finding the best playable version. To understand the atari tapes, cassettes and BASIC was quite challenging too as it is hard to find info on the internet on such old systems.

 

This has been my experience as well. A lot of the older games have archaic/non standard interfaces. These are a barrier unless you put the time in to learn them. Once you do, kinda like all those Linux command line aficionados, you realize that some of the controls are actually really quick to use. Most functions are linked to a single key, and it requires the user to learn the keys. If you spend the time to do so, you discover a pretty amazing (and sadly, forgotten) game series. I've had similar experiences with roguelikes like Crawl, Angband and older RPGs like Dragon's Crown (which is SSI gold box with way more depth), Ultima, Wizardry etc. 

Great games are still great games, but it's like driving an old car. Takes some getting used to again.



#114 leech ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:22 PM

 

This has been my experience as well. A lot of the older games have archaic/non standard interfaces. These are a barrier unless you put the time in to learn them. Once you do, kinda like all those Linux command line aficionados, you realize that some of the controls are actually really quick to use. Most functions are linked to a single key, and it requires the user to learn the keys. If you spend the time to do so, you discover a pretty amazing (and sadly, forgotten) game series. I've had similar experiences with roguelikes like Crawl, Angband and older RPGs like Dragon's Crown (which is SSI gold box with way more depth), Ultima, Wizardry etc. 

Great games are still great games, but it's like driving an old car. Takes some getting used to again.

I think you mean Wizard's Crown?  And it's sequel Eternal Dagger.  http://www.mobygames...e/wizards-crownhttp://www.mobygames.com/game/eternal-dagger.  Dragon's Crown is a game on the PS3 and Vita.  :)  Wizard's Crown is a very in depth strategy RPG, very awesome!



#115 Lord Thag OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:30 PM

I think you mean Wizard's Crown?  And it's sequel Eternal Dagger.  http://www.mobygames...e/wizards-crownhttp://www.mobygames.com/game/eternal-dagger.  Dragon's Crown is a game on the PS3 and Vita.  :)  Wizard's Crown is a very in depth strategy RPG, very awesome!

 

Durr, yes, I meant Wizard's Crown and Eternal Dagger. Dragon's Crown is getting a re-release on PS4 so my caffeine deprived brain swapped them. 

Those two games are the most underrated RPGs in Atari's library. Most folks don't realize they were the inspiration (after toning them down, they had a crazy deep combat system) for the SSI Gold Box games later on. 



#116 leech ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:36 PM

Yes!  I actually think Wizard's Crown (which I first played at a friend's house on his DOS machine, it wasn't until YEARS later that I found out they'd released both games for the Atari 8bit!) has some of the most epic tactical battle system.  I also think it's much better than the Gold box games.  It was made before SSI got the license to make D&D  games, if I recall.



#117 Lord Thag OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:27 AM

Yes!  I actually think Wizard's Crown (which I first played at a friend's house on his DOS machine, it wasn't until YEARS later that I found out they'd released both games for the Atari 8bit!) has some of the most epic tactical battle system.  I also think it's much better than the Gold box games.  It was made before SSI got the license to make D&D  games, if I recall.

 

I would agree. The Gold Box games, for all of their fame, are actually slightly prettier, but vastly simplified versions of the same combat engine. Wizard's Crown had just a bit too much depth for your average RPG fan, but if you like strategy games, it's A-list stuff. It's more of a Final Fantasy Tactics than a Final Fantasy, to use a modern comparison. I mean, you had to take into account facing and whether you were carrying a shield because that actually affected your armor and incoming damage. It was way ahead of it's time. 



#118 icetique OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:50 PM

In the meantime of your offtopic, I was able to contact Jon Freeman, who started the series, but sadly I got the reply:

 

 

Unfortunately, I can’t be of much help. I can’t find anything in my (actual) file cabinets pertaining to the Curse of Ra expansion, and I don’t think I had anything to do with it. (It was released about the time Anne and I left Automated Simulations/Epyx.) I don’t even seem to have a manual for it.

 

[...]

According to the Credits page (visible via Atarimania), the level design was done by Tim Bird, Mark Madrid, and Andrew Martin. I don’t know any of them, and I’m not at all sure I ever did, but if you could track them down, one of them might have your answer.
 

 

Finding contact to Jon was pretty difficult and I think I will not be able to find Tim, Mark or Andrew, they have so much common names that I think it is almost impossible to find the exact person. I will try some day maybe.



#119 ballyalley OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:31 AM

In the meantime of your offtopic, I was able to contact Jon Freeman, who started the series, [...] Finding contact to Jon was pretty difficult and I think I will not be able to find Tim, Mark or Andrew, they have so much common names that I think it is almost impossible to find the exact person.

 

Thanks for reaching out to Jon Freeman to see if he recalled anything about Treasure 10 missing from the fourth level of Curse of Ra.  Even if he had designed the levels for Curse of Ra himself, I would be very surprised if he remembered the tiny detail of why Treasure 10 is missing, or if it isn't missing, then where it is located.  You did give it a great go when you found him-- I respect that!-- and, of course, it was much easier than disassembling the "trilogy's" 6502 game code.

 

I seem to remember that I checked the original BASIC release of the Curse of Ra release around the time I realized that Treasure 10 was probably missing.  I don't think I could find the missing rooms or Treasure 10 in that BASIC release of the game either.  I certainly didn't look nearly as closely in that first version of the game for them, mostly because the game is slower.  Maybe it's worth checking again?

 

For those who are interested in playing the original BASIC versions of the Dunjonquest game using the Atari emulator, it's worth cranking up the speed of the emulator to about 130-140% to get the game to play a bit faster.  This makes the game feel a little more responsive, but the sounds also speed up, so you'll probably want to turn the sound down because the sounds You can also play the BASIC Dunjonquest games faster on real hardware too.  I've loaded the original Temple of Apshai BASIC release into OSS's BASIC XL cartridge on my Atari 130XE.  BASIC XL is nearly 100% compatible with Atari BASIC and it executes BASIC code faster.  Running Temple of Apshai under this BASIC XL did work and the game seemed to be a little faster, but I didn't do any extensive testing.

 

Does anyone know if the BASIC and machine language versions of the games in the Temple of Apshai Trilogy share the same data that make up the maps and what is in each of them?

 

Adam



#120 Lord Thag OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:20 AM

I'm gonna drag this back out after I get back from vacation. I wanna find this room!



#121 icetique OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:12 AM

 

 

Thanks for reaching out to Jon Freeman to see if he recalled anything about Treasure 10 missing from the fourth level of Curse of Ra.  Even if he had designed the levels for Curse of Ra himself, I would be very surprised if he remembered the tiny detail of why Treasure 10 is missing, or if it isn't missing, then where it is located.  You did give it a great go when you found him-- I respect that!-- and, of course, it was much easier than disassembling the "trilogy's" 6502 game code.

 

Yes, I agree, after those years they probably remember nothing about the game, but it is worth a try! I will try to reach other members in the nearest time, but disassembling/reviewing source code is worth a try. The greatest possibility I see for now is to use DosBox debugger, which is quite comprehensive (although I am able to do almost nothing there). I downloaded the original DOS version of Curse of Ra, and the interesting thing there is that the level details are almost in plain text:

 

LEVEL5.LVL (almost in the end there is a non ASCII character) - https://pastebin.com/BPPWH203

LEVEL5.SHP (same here) -  https://pastebin.com/chs2u0rQ

 

However, there is no COM or EXE file, there is only BOOT.BAS file, it probably needs QB64 to run, but I didn't test it yet. However I bet, QB64 doesn't have so comprehensive debug. But, it seems that SHP is the shortcut of SHAPE, so there is probably written room data and LVL is of course shortcut of LEVEL, so probably it has monsters, treasures, doors or other stuff written inside it. I would say, the SHP should tell us if Room 36 and 37 exist and LVL should tell us if Treasure 10 exists.

 

I also tried to run the Trilogy version in DosBox Debugger and what I found is that level data is no longer written in plain text, but in binary files. There are two files that are responsible for this level:

 

LEV12.BAD

LEVEL12.LVL

 

I was able to read from DosBox debugger that LEV12.BAD is loaded on the start of level 5, however I have to try it on another computer as mine (Surface Pro) does not have Pause button which is quite helpful to switch between game and debugger (this doesn't work for me in DosBox, I am not sure why). I have 10+ years of experience in programming, but I never focused on assembler and debugging such an old games, but I always wanted to learn both of these things, so maybe it is worth a try now!

 

I realize that these forums are Atari forums, but the game is the cross-platform mystery, let's use everything we have to find or deny the existence of these rooms and treasure.

 

At first, I will try to find the pattern in this LEVEL5.SHP, as far as I can tell right now, there is no room number inside this file, only some kind of coordinates, however it is very hard to check without running game (with running game I could possibly edit some values and see what they are changing), so I will probably try to run it in this QB64, but I do not even know if the game is complete, as this BOOT.BAS seems too small for the game!


Edited by icetique, Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:24 AM.


#122 icetique OFFLINE  

icetique

    Space Invader

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Posted Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:14 AM

I spent some time trying to find some pattern in the LEVEL5.SHP and I found one. In the beginning on the file, there is:

40

20

 

I checked this and this sequence is very regular across the file, each sequence contain 52 items. I call this sequences "tiles" for now.

 

There is a total of 12 "tiles" and after the 12th tile there is non-ASCII character, and after this there is only four values left:

-16141 
 13056 
 960 
 24
 
So, I put the tiles side by side:
 
And it is clearly visible that the tiles from 8th to 12th are identical, so they may be not used for this level. I will try to find more patterns and compare different levels, but maybe you guys have an idea too what's going on and why 12?
 
Update: anyway, I just realized that the original Temple of Apshai for DOS is written in basic, so I may be able to see what's going on in the code. So maybe this will be easier.

Edited by icetique, Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:21 AM.


#123 icetique OFFLINE  

icetique

    Space Invader

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Posted Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:12 AM

Thanks to the BASIC source code and plain-text level data, I am now quite sure there is no Treasure 10 and no Rooms 36 and 37.

 

I recreated the code from the game to read the file data, it was quite hard as the game has lot of data and the variable names are very short like TR, TX, TD, TA (probably saving disk space?). I was able to get out of the file two important arrays called:

 

NO and TR.

 

The first one keeps the connection between rooms (top, right, bottom, left) and the second one keeps the connection between rooms and treasures. There is no connection to room 36 or 37 and there is no treasure 10 in level data files.

You can see them by yourselfs:

https://nayee.net/data.php

 

I also checked if TR is somewhere possibly hacked but there is only one place in the code and this is probably the place, where you leave the treasure on the floor so it become available to take away.

 

The NO array is nowhere written in source code, so this one is probably final too. Also, the game was prepared for up to 60 rooms.


Edited by icetique, Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:18 AM.


#124 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

_The Doctor__

    Quadrunner

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Posted Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:20 AM

but can you teleport in some way?



#125 icetique OFFLINE  

icetique

    Space Invader

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Posted Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:30 AM

Even if it was possible, there is no way that somewhere exists Treasure 10, as simply there is no way in the code to set up different Treasure than it is in the TR array (in my opinion).

 

Edit #1: I have updated the website with TS, TW and TC arrays. TW = weight, TC = price, however I am not sure what is the TS array. It seems that the treasure 10 was planned somehow. I only see in the game code that TS with value > 100 increases the stats (in this level none), and TS != 0 is impossible to drop.

Edit #2: Ok, I found it. It seems that different values from 1 to 11 are doing different things and also all above 100 are doing different things. The value "6" in treasure 10 sets SA(10) = 1, KB(19) = KB(19)+1 and both of these values are related to character data (not sure which one, but it's not that important as the treasure 10 cannot be found anyway).


Edited by icetique, Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:59 AM.





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