66 replies to this topic

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

CPUWIZ, on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:12 PM, said:

Dude, crawl under a rock.  You are now on mod-preview.  I am busy working and don't have time for this shit.

Saw it coming for some time now, well done.

[batari]

dwane413, on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:26 PM, said:

So far, the 32k limit has not been a problem for me. However, if ROMs for games like Chetiry (48KB as of 09 April 2011) are released, it will make me wish I had more memory.

Well, the 32k isn't quite the whole story.  Harmony has two chips, one with 32k and another with 512k.  The 512k is indirectly-addressable memory so we don't usually count it, and this can only be used for storage, not code execution.  Chetiry stores music data here, and as such it does run on Harmony hardware in development mode (though not yet in multicart mode - we need to revise the BIOS to allow for that.)

batari, on Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:32 PM, said:

This information surprised me. I had thought that it was the other way around.... that the 32k was so the Harmony would have a feasible price while the Melody could work with more memory than the Harmony has.

The simple explanation is that Melody was designed first and Harmony was built from it.

dwane413, on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:26 PM, said:

I guess by that you mean that you wanted to ensure that games could be released on a standard Melody cart, since I think Melody carts can have more than 32k. The Chetiry blog page that I linked to above says, "The new Melody hardware also inspired me to include digitized music throughout the game, based on the Pitfall-2 technique." I may be wrong, but I thought this implied that Chetiry (48KB) would be released on the Melody. The Melody's store page also says, "Additionally, Melody boards can be built with a 128K Flash chip, replacing the Melody's standard 32K of Flash memory."

The 128k flash chips are expensive.  The lowest-end version (128k flash/16k RAM) will roughly double the cost of a Melody board.  The 128k chips are also slower and wouldn't work for advanced bankswitching (like DPC/DPC+/Supercharger) which strongly influenced the decision not to use them in Harmony.  However, they are suitable for special projects that require more than 32k, are using more standard forms of bankswitching, and could afford a premium price point.  There may be a game coming out sooner or later that does use this chip, but as mentioned, it's not Chetiry.

[GroovyBee]

It saddens me to see another 7800 programmer get trolled on here.

[sermajic]

So to run the game in this "development mode"
You have to flash the cart with this only game,right?

Then that way you can have partial 512k access?

Are more bios upgrades due for harmony?

batari, on Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:08 AM, said:

dwane413, on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:26 PM, said:

So far, the 32k limit has not been a problem for me. However, if ROMs for games like Chetiry (48KB as of 09 April 2011) are released, it will make me wish I had more memory.

Well, the 32k isn't quite the whole story.  Harmony has two chips, one with 32k and another with 512k.  The 512k is indirectly-addressable memory so we don't usually count it, and this can only be used for storage, not code execution.  Chetiry stores music data here, and as such it does run on Harmony hardware in development mode (though not yet in multicart mode - we need to revise the BIOS to allow for that.)

batari, on Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:32 PM, said:

This information surprised me. I had thought that it was the other way around.... that the 32k was so the Harmony would have a feasible price while the Melody could work with more memory than the Harmony has.

The simple explanation is that Melody was designed first and Harmony was built from it.

dwane413, on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:26 PM, said:

I guess by that you mean that you wanted to ensure that games could be released on a standard Melody cart, since I think Melody carts can have more than 32k. The Chetiry blog page that I linked to above says, "The new Melody hardware also inspired me to include digitized music throughout the game, based on the Pitfall-2 technique." I may be wrong, but I thought this implied that Chetiry (48KB) would be released on the Melody. The Melody's store page also says, "Additionally, Melody boards can be built with a 128K Flash chip, replacing the Melody's standard 32K of Flash memory."

The 128k flash chips are expensive.  The lowest-end version (128k flash/16k RAM) will roughly double the cost of a Melody board.  The 128k chips are also slower and wouldn't work for advanced bankswitching (like DPC/DPC+/Supercharger) which strongly influenced the decision not to use them in Harmony.  However, they are suitable for special projects that require more than 32k, are using more standard forms of bankswitching, and could afford a premium price point.  There may be a game coming out sooner or later that does use this chip, but as mentioned, it's not Chetiry.

[Mitch]

Wow, I'm away for a little while and things are going crazy.

Bob, don't let one persons opinion get to you. You are greatly appreciated here.

Mitch

[Corby]

Mitch, on Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:41 PM, said:

Wow, I'm away for a little while and things are going crazy.

Bob, don't let one persons opinion get to you. You are greatly appreciated here.

Mitch

What Mitch said!!!!

[accousticguitar]

Mitch, on Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:41 PM, said:

Wow, I'm away for a little while and things are going crazy.

Bob, don't let one persons opinion get to you. You are greatly appreciated here.

Mitch

Agreed.

[mimo]

x 1,000,000 what Mitch said.

[thursday83]

Bob is the man.  All of the hard work he has done for zero profit over the years and now this?  He gave us Pac-Man Collection, Space Invaders, FailSafe, other arcade conversions and homebrews that literally keep this scene alive.  He just shipped out Meteor Shower, and has lots of other games in the works.  Not to mention being one of the few developers that is working on XM exclusive games.  We should set up a paypal donation thread to him, not shit on him.  Bob, I have your back, and everyone else here other than the guy with the classic car collection does too.  Bob, please don't leave, and please let us know what we can do to help out at all, I couldn't tell you how much you are appreciated and looked up to, and everyone else on AA can back that statement up as well.  You are a genius and I have had nothing but kindness and professionalism from you since I joined AA.  Again, you are the man and no one - NO ONE - can dispute that claim.  

Thursday83

[Underball]

There is more to Bob's frustrations than just one guy trolling him in this thread. The whole XM box snub was pretty low. It goes deeper than that, too.

The whole tone of this place has changed over the last year or so since the XM project came about. There's an ugly 800 lb gorilla in the middle of the room that no one wants to talk about, but it's made lots of people in this forum quite anxious, and occasionally flat out rude. Longtime contributing members have been cast aside, or treated as inferior vs. a small clique of an "in-crowd".

It's sad. I used to look forward to coming here and talking, and reading about Atari 7800 games, projects, homebrew, emulators, mods, etc. Now every time I come here I feel like I'm defending myself or someone I'm friends with because we're not allowed to state our opinions on things. Posts are deleted. People are banned or put on mod-preview just for thinking for themselves.

Bob's not leaving because of one troll. He left because he was driven away by the culture here. This thread was just the icing on the shitpie.

[thursday83]

Well, let's make it not sad and focus on the positive aspects of the great things going on by the majority of the people involved with Atari Age.  This is a forum, and opinions are welcome.  I think we can turn this around, get Bob back and active again, and try to encourage the good vibe from people, and let the haters and naysayers go unresponded to.  We all need to keep our heads above the rest, and think about the mature human beings that we are, and to not let ourselves tear someone else down or spread a negative and undeserved vibe.  I believe Bob will come back, and so will the others that have supported him in the past, as well as the people who have supported and continue to support this scene.  Let's lift the elephant in the room, kick it's ass out of here, and get ready for a whole new system with great attributes to look forward to.  Stay positive, folks, this is only a small forum, let's make it a great one!

Thursday83

[wood_jl]

Underball, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:15 PM, said:

There is more to Bob's frustrations than just one guy trolling him in this thread. The whole XM box snub was pretty low. It goes deeper than that, too.

I'm not too familiar with Bob and his games, but from what I gather, he's a talented game developer, and I would agree that his game should be on the box of the 7800XM.  It sucks that it didn't.  However, that is one distinct issue, however sad.  I don't get this "deeper than that" business.

Underball, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:15 PM, said:

The whole tone of this place has changed over the last year or so since the XM project came about. There's an ugly 800 lb gorilla in the middle of the room that no one wants to talk about, but it's made lots of people in this forum quite anxious, and occasionally flat out rude. Longtime contributing members have been cast aside, or treated as inferior vs. a small clique of an "in-crowd".

Whole place changed in a year?  I think not.  There's a guy who should have had his game on the 7800XM box, and for whatever reason that doesn't seem apparent, it isn't.  Because of that, you're declaring that "the whole tone of this place has changed?"  RIDICULOUS.  There are a whole lot of things discussed here, and there are a hell of a lot of people here, and they're discussing a whole lot of other issues, and they're having a hell of a good time at it.  What a childish attempt at blowing things out of proportion.  Whole tone of this place, indeed!

Underball, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:15 PM, said:

It's sad. I used to look forward to coming here and talking, and reading about Atari 7800 games, projects, homebrew, emulators, mods, etc. Now every time I come here I feel like I'm defending myself or someone I'm friends with because we're not allowed to state our opinions on things. Posts are deleted. People are banned or put on mod-preview just for thinking for themselves.

I think you used to look forward to coming here and shitting on the 7800 XM, which you have a steady history of.  You may be correct in your defense of Bob, but that doesn't grant you retroactive legitimacy for all of the trolling you did in the 7800 XM thread.  What a nice convenient happening (you happen to be on the "right" side of this latest issue with Bob) for you to pretend this was relevant before it became an issue, and pretend that "you were right" the entire time.  Once again, you appear to be in the right place in defense of Bob, but you were on the wrong side trolling and hassling 7800 XM people/developers and your attempt to use this latest (defense of Bob) issue to grant yourself legitimacy for your trolling, while you simultansously blow the entire issue out of proportion while indicting the entire tone of the entire Atariage forum.....is, simply, laughable.  I hope nobody takes it seriously.

Underball, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:15 PM, said:

Bob's not leaving because of one troll. He left because he was driven away by the culture here. This thread was just the icing on the shitpie.

Maybe you should let Bob speak for himself, in this regard.  Maybe you should try leaving, too, since you're the one saying this place is so bad and calling it a "shitpie."  Sorry if I've thrown a monkey wrench in the "bandwagon" you were so eager to jump on.  HA HA HA.

[Underball]

You really don't know what you're talking about. I never "trolled" anyone. All I ever did was ask what games were going to BA coming out for the XM, and questioned the motives of keeping such projects hush-hush. It was my opinion that doing so would hurt sales. For this I had my posts removed, was put on mod preview, and was straight up insulted by a number of people.

You're confusing my legitimate questions with the nasty commentary of the former poster mbalducci.

And there is a lot going on behind the scenes that you simply don't know about that drove bobs decision to leave. If he decides to come back and share it with you or the rest of the board, maybe you'll be less likely to jump down my throat about it.

[Sauron]

I think this forum could do with a whole hell of a lot less drama. I and the other mods have done our best to lighten up the moderation here lately, but threads like this certainly don't help things. Please keep in mind that the mods here do not get paid to do this. We all do this on our free time, and since many of us have been busy lately, we've had far less time to jump into the middle of a flame war. Complaining about the moderation is not doing anyone any favors. I've refrained from locking the thread so far, but one more outburst from anyone and I won't think twice about doing it.

[swlovinist]

I think alot of this drama could be more in private emails versus public posts.  As a huge fan of this site and the 7800 community, we need to remember that this does nothing to bring in new people to the community.    I respect the hard work that has gone into homebrew projects of the 7800 and other other systems.     I hope things can work out with less drama in the future.

[Trebor]

PacManPlus, on Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:01 PM, said:

You know, I wasn't going to reply to a troll like yourself, but seeing as the only person who has my back is Underball, I have to call you out on your lies.  Your post to me was 'get a life' and I fell for the trap by responding and calling you an asshole.  I should have realized that trolls like you are looking for a response.  Anyone who actually knows me here knows I don't go around insulting people for no reason.

You know what? I'm done here at AA.  Put me on Mod preview, or ban me. I don't give a shit anymore.
Thanks, Underball.  You are one of the true friends I had here.

Bob,

It truly saddens me to read the above.  You are by far one of the nicest, most helpful, and friendly persons I ever had the pleasure to cross paths with.  Life's circumstance and situation for me currently does not allow me to post as often as I would like to especially in support of you and your work.  However, it is nonetheless admired and appreciated.  I also stand by my previous offer of providing any fee/contribution/donation to any of the digital work you have so freely provided in which I did not buy a cart.  Unfortunately, another part of that circumstance and situation was the loss of all my classic gaming hardware (Atari 2600, 7800, ColecoVision...Just to name a few).

Anyhow, I hope to see you back here again and realize how much you are needed and appreciated by the community at large.  It's a sad fact that the minority naysayers often have the louder (And naturally more annoying) voice than the majority of those who are thrilled, marveled, and grateful for the people and the community.  You are one of those people who make the Atari 7800 still as exciting and interesting for me 25 years later.  Thank you for all that you've done and hopefully down the road will continue to do.  Most importantly, take care of yourself...Don't let the negative overtake the positive of this hobby.

[sermajic]

thursday83, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:31 PM, said:

Well, let's make it not sad and focus on the positive aspects of the great things going on by the majority of the people involved with Atari Age.  This is a forum, and opinions are welcome.  I think we can turn this around, get Bob back and active again, and try to encourage the good vibe from people, and let the haters and naysayers go unresponded to.  We all need to keep our heads above the rest, and think about the mature human beings that we are, and to not let ourselves tear someone else down or spread a negative and undeserved vibe.  I believe Bob will come back, and so will the others that have supported him in the past, as well as the people who have supported and continue to support this scene.  Let's lift the elephant in the room, kick it's ass out of here, and get ready for a whole new system with great attributes to look forward to.  Stay positive, folks, this is only a small forum, let's make it a great one!

Thursday83

i think the same way

and i woul like to apologize with pacmanplus in public

i come around a post and saw him complaining for a box`s picture,
and without thinking ,
the words "come on ,it`s only a box, get a life"
got out of my keyboard

after his insults in repply it all escalated and ended in all the posts you saw

in that time i didn`t know half of what i now know and feel very sorry Bob left the forum

well that`s all ,
just wanted to say in the open "i`m trully sorry"

i