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Star Castle 2600 2011 at Video Game Summit


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#26 Cebus Capucinis OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:04 PM

Jose is a collector of Atari 2600 items, and seems to have money. He bought Air Raid boxed for upwards of $30K.
edit: if there's a bidding war for this, he's likely to win.


I wouldn't rule out the McGrail factor on this one....

'ULTRA RARE 2600 HOMEBREW - BUY IT NOW $1,000,050'

#27 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:25 PM





It's a joke. Sort of.


No it's not. Sort of.


I don't get it.

( ? )

Jose is a collector of Atari 2600 items, and seems to have money. He bought Air Raid boxed for upwards of $30K.
edit: if there's a bidding war for this, he's likely to win.


That's a hell of a coincidence, The price I announced at VGS is $32,768.00 USD ($32k)

That's just 50 cents a byte for the whole cart, or $4 a byte for the 8K Star Castle runs out of.

No bidding war, first come first serve, cash, cashiers check, or wire deposit only.

But, there's a little more to it than that... If someone does eventually purchase the cartridge, they can tell me if they think I should make another physical cartridge (serial number 00002 of course) and withhold the source for some number of years or if I should release the source and playable binaries (F8 bank switch for Stella and my custom 64K cart versions) immediately.

#28 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:28 PM


Jose is a collector of Atari 2600 items, and seems to have money. He bought Air Raid boxed for upwards of $30K.
edit: if there's a bidding war for this, he's likely to win.


I wouldn't rule out the McGrail factor on this one....

'ULTRA RARE 2600 HOMEBREW - BUY IT NOW $1,000,050'


Hah, I have to ask, who is McGrail? Did he get his $1M?

(See, StarCastle is a bargain)

#29 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:29 PM

I've set my price so it doesn't matter, but does anyone know what the most anyone has ever paid for an Atari cartridge?

#30 eshu OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:41 PM

I've set my price so it doesn't matter, but does anyone know what the most anyone has ever paid for an Atari cartridge?


I'm pretty sure it was the boxed air raid mentioned earlier in the thread - no offense but I think your slightly delusional if you think someones going to pay that for a modern homebrew unless it's for charity??

#31 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:43 PM

I'm pretty sure it was the boxed air raid mentioned earlier in the thread - no offense but I think your slightly delusional if you think someones going to pay that for a modern homebrew unless it's for charity??


Only slightly?

Thanks!

#32 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:55 PM


I'm pretty sure it was the boxed air raid mentioned earlier in the thread - no offense but I think your slightly delusional if you think someones going to pay that for a modern homebrew unless it's for charity??


Only slightly?

Thanks!


..yawn

#33 accousticguitar OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:34 PM

Air Raid without a box only sells for about 10% of what it sells for with a box. :ponder:

#34 Mxyzptlk OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:52 PM






It's a joke. Sort of.


No it's not. Sort of.


I don't get it.

( ? )

Jose is a collector of Atari 2600 items, and seems to have money. He bought Air Raid boxed for upwards of $30K.
edit: if there's a bidding war for this, he's likely to win.


That's a hell of a coincidence, The price I announced at VGS is $32,768.00 USD ($32k)

That's just 50 cents a byte for the whole cart, or $4 a byte for the 8K Star Castle runs out of.

No bidding war, first come first serve, cash, cashiers check, or wire deposit only.

But, there's a little more to it than that... If someone does eventually purchase the cartridge, they can tell me if they think I should make another physical cartridge (serial number 00002 of course) and withhold the source for some number of years or if I should release the source and playable binaries (F8 bank switch for Stella and my custom 64K cart versions) immediately.

$32,768.00 for a homebrew? Wow, you are really shooting high. Good luck, and by the way, the game looks great.

#35 Mxyzptlk OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:55 PM




It's a joke. Sort of.


No it's not. Sort of.


I don't get it.

( ? )

Me either, sounds kind of odd, but I am sure they know whats up.

#36 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:04 PM

Since none of us are ever going to see/play/own this version, we should start a bounty for Star Castle. Plenty of great homebrew programmers here that could pull this off. Star Castle today. Boxing Bugs tomorrow :)

#37 ScumSoft OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:41 PM

Pffft, I'd do it for free just to see the game get done!

#38 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:41 AM

I just got Star Castle on Mame, and it is an ok game. I mean nothing super spectacular or anything. I guess that's because I'm on an I'Robot kick right now.

#39 5-11under OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:32 AM

The price I announced at VGS is $32,768.00 USD ($32k)

That's just 50 cents a byte for the whole cart, or $4 a byte for the 8K Star Castle runs out of.

Well, the empty bits are pretty much worthless now, so the 50 cents a byte should make a price of $4096.00 USD. ;)

#40 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:03 AM

I just got Star Castle on Mame, and it is an ok game.


So you downloaded the Star Castle ROMS and ran them in an emulator - this is exactly why I didn't release the 2600 version on a melody cart, and presumably why my not releasing the game frustrated more than a few people.

I mean nothing super spectacular or anything. I guess that's because I'm on an I'Robot kick right now.


I liked the game because it was in the arcade with Battlezone, Asteroids, Missile Command and Space Duel when I was growing up, but I ported the game because the man who made Yars Revenge was supposed to do it and said "a decent version couldn't be made" and "it would suck", and frankly, if he did do it, we probably wouldn't have Yars Revenge which would suck more. I've said it over and over, I made it to prove it could be done and done well.

#41 lucifershalo OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:32 AM

I dont know if it is just me
but it sounds just ...wrong....
it is like putting money on a passion
trying to exploit people
I mean, I know we are collecting it
and everything has a value
but it will be better if the rom was ditribute free like most of the other programmers and then trying to sell one exclusive cartridge
but that selfish attitude bothers me

#42 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:33 AM

Awesome. I thought you were gung ho about never ever selling this thing?


After our conversation last year, I looked back and asked myself if I would accept an offer of a million dollars for the game, and the answer was of course yes, then $100,000, $50,000 and so on. Eventually I found figure that I was uncomfortable with.

I was surprised and flattered at the response it got here on Atari Age and found that creatively I would like to share the work, but I don't want to give it away nor have it stolen.

So, here is the perverted perspective I find myself having today: Even though I didn't make it for money (I did it to prove it could be done), there is a figure that I would accept (regardless of what others think its value is), but I don't want to have worked so hard on something to have it stolen, so if I were to be paid that figure I would be comfortable releasing it all.

Frankly if someone really did come forward, it would be really difficult for me to hand over the cartridge, but I would.

After all, I'd still be the person who after 30 years made a great port of one of my favorite coin op games, the game that HSW said "would suck", that indirectly led to the creation of Yars Revenge - a game who's innovation and success made history in our industry.

#43 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:39 AM

Pffft, I'd do it for free just to see the game get done!


You totally should. Seriously.

I've always suggested that people try to do this or any other game they like.

Thomas Jentzsch offered last year.

I suggest you both do it, after all now you know it can be done and you have a pretty good template to follow. I discussed how I approached some of the thornier issues in the forum posts last year, you have youtube videos and screen shots to boot.

#44 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:48 AM

Since none of us are ever going to see/play/own this version, we should start a bounty for Star Castle. Plenty of great homebrew programmers here that could pull this off. Star Castle today. Boxing Bugs tomorrow :)


[I read some of your more verbose edits yesterday ;-)]

I made Star Castle on the 2600 because Howard Scott Warshaw made Yars Revenge instead of a port of Star Castle and repeatedly said that a "decent version couldn't be done" or "it would suck" in subsequent interviews. I did it to prove it could be done.

I think this project passed "homebrew" a long time ago - and to be clear, I feel all projects started without a publisher begin as homebrew, but whether you are a professional game developer or an anonymous talented programmer, at some point when you create a complete quality salable game you cross a line from a hobbyist to something else.

Frankly, I prefer Atari's vector Black Widow to Boxing Bugs and I don't think either lends themselves to the 2600 due to their controls, but I'm not here to tell you what to like or do. You should get those projects started.

#45 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:04 AM

I dont know if it is just me
but it sounds just ...wrong....
it is like putting money on a passion
trying to exploit people
I mean, I know we are collecting it
and everything has a value
but it will be better if the rom was ditribute free like most of the other programmers and then trying to sell one exclusive cartridge
but that selfish attitude bothers me


I'm offering to release the source and binaries if it's okay with the buyer.
It's like saying I want to sell 1000 cartridges all at once for $32.77 apiece.
Isn't that better than just keeping the cartridge to myself forever?
Once bought everyone could download and share it LEGALLY.

#46 eshu OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:42 AM

I made Star Castle on the 2600 because Howard Scott Warshaw made Yars Revenge instead of a port of Star Castle and repeatedly said that a "decent version couldn't be done" or "it would suck" in subsequent interviews. I did it to prove it could be done.


In his defence maybe HSW felt flicker was an unacceptable compromise AFAIK it's not used in any of his games - supercat outlined how a nice version could be done with 30hz flicker a few years ago - http://www.atariage....-castle-anyone/ - I think it's quite similar to your implementation?

#47 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:21 AM


I made Star Castle on the 2600 because Howard Scott Warshaw made Yars Revenge instead of a port of Star Castle and repeatedly said that a "decent version couldn't be done" or "it would suck" in subsequent interviews. I did it to prove it could be done.


In his defence maybe HSW felt flicker was an unacceptable compromise AFAIK it's not used in any of his games - supercat outlined how a nice version could be done with 30hz flicker a few years ago - http://www.atariage....-castle-anyone/ - I think it's quite similar to your implementation?


I know you didn't suggest I was attacking Howard but I want to be clear, he does not require defense, I am not trying to take anything away from his wonderful work. It's possible, but it's not what he said in his many interviews. Multiplexing was used in several games prior.

From DG Presshttp://www.digitpres...tt_warshaw.html

Howard Scott Warshaw: We used a VAX system to compile/assemble, and then downloaded the code to an emulator box for execution, patching, and debugging. I was given the system’s manual and, after learning it, was assigned to do my first game – a version of Cinematronic’s Star Castle. I soon realized that a decent version couldn’t be done, so I took what I thought were the top logical and geometric components of Star Castle and reorganized them in a way that would better suit the machine. This eventually became Yars’ Revenge.

From Atari Times: http://www.ataritime...showarticle=522

How did you get the job for Yars' Revenge? Did Atari need a clone of Star Castle and you simply came up with a better game?

Yes, I was the next person on the list to get an assignment and Atari needed a Star Castle clone. I went back to them and said "I don't think this is going to work." But I analyzed the game and found what I thought was fun about it. I reconfigured it and made a few modifications in a way that would work on the 2600. And they were cool about it because there weren't to many arcade hits at the time and Star Castle wasn't all that.

From ED interview:http://www.playmount...e-t-cartridges/

Jogos 80 Magazine: Yars´ Revenge, one of your brilliant creations, was a major hit at the time. In fact, It´s still enjoyed by so many players and collectors worldwide. We know the game was supposed to be a home version of Star Castle, right? When did you decide to make Yars´ Revenge out of Star Castle? How did that happen?

Howard Scott Warshaw: Well, when I started to evaluate Star Castle for conversion to the VCS I realized very quickly that it would really suck. So I proposed a different game play which I felt incorporated all the fun game play elements of the coin-op but would work much more cleanly on the VCS. Fortunately they let me run with it and that is how Yars' was born, initially. Many other details and many hours of work went into making it the game and the story that it became, but that's how it all started.


My interpretation of these interviews and others was he didn't see how it could be done in a quality way, so he took the elements he thought made the game fun and reorganized them into a game for the 2600 hardware. The result turned out to be a superior product. I set out to prove that making a quality port of Star Castle for the 2600 was possible on hardware available at the time.

#48 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:26 AM

[I read some of your more verbose edits yesterday ;-)]

I think this project passed "homebrew" a long time ago - and to be clear, I feel all projects started without a publisher begin as homebrew, but whether you are a professional game developer or an anonymous talented programmer, at some point when you create a complete quality salable game you cross a line from a hobbyist to something else.

Yeah, sorry about that. Was my initial reaction to the sticker shock. Okay, so... you've got a game that you consider commercial quality. Great. Why not sell it inline within the confines of common sense as a commercial release, such as this, usually is then? I'm sorry, but it is my strong opinion that $32k outright and upfront is an absolutely ridiculous figure to expect. The modern Atari 2600 scene is not like dealing with major book publishers and world famous authors.

Getting back down to earth, if you're looking to cash in on your work, why not sell it online or through the various dealers such as Atari Age? Again, within the confines of common sense. $30 a pop, maybe $20 more with an instruction manual and box. There are people here that can create professional and commercial quality labels, manuals and boxes. While you'll probably never make your $32k, you'd at least have somewhat of a steady stream of cash for a little bit.

Look at Fulop's incomplete robot game he released at a pie in the sky price. Packaged it nicely and provided some history, but he totally alienated a majority of the user base that *would* have dolled out $30-$50. I guess this is why companies pay other companies to tell them who their customers are. lol OR perhaps it's an ego and perceived self worth or "integrity" thing. I don't know.


These sort of deals just leave a bad taste in my mouth. My opinions of course. At the end of the day, it's just a game we're talking about. Or not. :ponder: :)



#49 solidcorp OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:41 AM

Yeah, sorry about that.

NP, it's all good.

You and others make fine points.

It just takes one sale and everyone has a chance to have it... or, I'll keep it and never get any money.

Either is fine, it's the norm of "I make a little money and everyone steals it" that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

#50 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:50 AM

Either is fine, it's the norm of "I make a little money and everyone steals it" that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I hear 'ya. Guess I'm just naive enough to believe that wouldn't happen on a scale that affected your pocketbook adversely. :)




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