40 replies to this topic

[cimerians]

This is curious, I just got an email from a friend who has found the following PS2 games on PSN up for download.

Maximo
Odin Sphere
Grim Grimoire
and a few other PS2 games.

I need to check for myself when I get home, he used the search option and typed in Grim for example and came up with this.
I have no idea how many PS2 games are on PSN "unanounced".

Maximo is a pretty cool Ghosts n' Goblins platformer which I already own. I have no idea how much they cost either. If they are 10 bucks or less they would be
worth it IMO.

[Wntermute]

Actually, they did announce it sort-of..
http://blog.us.plays...ughout-october/
http://blog.us.plays...ore-update-207/

And it appears the base price for PS2 Classics is $9.99 (PSOne Classics are $5.99 base and $9.99 for special titles)

Edited by Wntermute, Thu Oct 6, 2011 10:17 PM.

[cimerians]

Right. They mix it all in with the other announcements and they dont appear on the tuesday PSN new releases list at all when you sign in to the store.  How the heck can they expect to sell these? Some of these games though are pretty damn good so its their stupid loss.

I searched and found the following PS2 games.

Odin Sphere ($9.99)
Action RPG.
File size: 3.28 GB

Maximo: Ghosts To Glory ($9.99)
PLATFORMER
File size: 713 MB

GRIMgRiMoiRe ($9.99)
RTS.
ESRB rated E10+
File size: 1.33 GB

Ring of Red ($9.99)
Turn-based strategy game
ESRB rated T
File size: 580 MB

God Hand ($9.99)
ACTION
ESRB rated M
File size: 1.48 GB

Seems you get digital manuals with the games just like the PS1. I downloaded Maximo and the emulation is pretty darn good.

[Rex Dart]

What's the graphic quality like with these?  Do they run at a higher resolution, have any texture smoothing, anything above what an actual PS2 would offer?  I like the idea, but I keep remembering how bad the PS2 looked even on a CRT with nice cables & I'm afraid of how it'd look through HDMI at 46".

[cimerians]

Its not bad because you can do smoothing like the PS1 games. When I turn smoothing off, it looks pretty crappy.
Just hit the PS button and the option is right there. No higher resolutions or anything so I may not be able to recommed these if your looking at a higher res.
They are straight rips from the PS2 CD's and emulated.

I have an HDMI 45" and some PS2 games look like garbage while others look fine. It seems like it depends a lot on the game.

Maximo looks pretty good and like I said the emulation was perfect so far for that game. I played for about 30 minutes.

Edited by cimerians, Fri Oct 7, 2011 9:06 AM.

[Wntermute]

For anyone looking for the PS2 games on the PS Store:
1. Open the PS Store
2. Open the "Only On PSN" listing on the left (the "Only On PSN" icon under "New Releases" goes to the same listing)
3. Open the "PlayStation 2 Classics" icon on the right
4. Browse the available games.

Currently, there are 5 titles and they are planning to release 4-6 titles per month going forward. (A little better than their PS1 Classics release schedule, even with the imports)

Edited by Wntermute, Fri Oct 7, 2011 10:59 PM.

[onmode-ky]

It is strange that the PS2 Classics are not being listed in the main New Releases section on the PS Store, while the PS1 Classics do get listed there, but they at least do have their own section right now under New Releases.  If you go (storefront) -> New Releases -> Only on PSN -> PS2 Classics, all of them are in there.

Since you've got one already: do these games use PS3-type save files, or do they use the virtual PS2 memory card system on the PS3 (i.e., actual PS2 save files, that would be cross-compatible with a PS2 disc copy of the game)?  Is the PS-button menu the same as with the PS1 Classics (i.e., same black screen and white text list of menu selections)?

A guy who works doing something on PlayStation Network (seems to have something to do with bringing indie games to the Store) claims that these are emulated, just like the PS1 Classics.  I find that hard to believe, because, well, my disc copy of Odin Sphere still won't play on my slim PS3.  If there is emulation going on, maybe it's only partial, with some parts of the code rewritten for PS3 optimization.

onmode-ky

[Wntermute]

Rex Dart, on Fri Oct 7, 2011 8:00 AM, said:

What's the graphic quality like with these?  Do they run at a higher resolution, have any texture smoothing, anything above what an actual PS2 would offer?  I like the idea, but I keep remembering how bad the PS2 looked even on a CRT with nice cables & I'm afraid of how it'd look through HDMI at 46".

These are PS2/PS3 Hybrid games at the moment.. they run using the PS3 hardware but hook into the PS2 portions of the firmware that normally get ignored by the non-BC models. So they use the same PS2 smoothing and scaling options as the BC models. Only real difference a user will be able to see between the digital and disc version (other than not using the optical drive) is... you don't have to manage a virtual PS2 memory card for these games. They basically generate and utilize their own cards. These save files appear in a new folder "Saved Data Utility (PS2)"

[Wntermute]

Keep in mind that there are already multiple emulator levels on the system already:
- PS1 Disc Backward Compatibility: Original software and emulated memory card
- PS1 Digital Backward Compatibility: Downloaded software and emulated memory card
- PS2 Disc Backward Compatibility: Original software and emulated memory card
- PS2 Digital Backward Compatibility: Downloaded software and separate save file system "Saved Data Utility (PS2)"
- PSP Mini Backward Compatibility: Downloaded software and separate save file system "Saved Data Utility (minis/PSP)"
- PSP HD Forward Compatibility: Downloaded software and separate save file system "Saved Data Utility (minis/PSP)" - This is for the upcoming PSP HD Remaster line
- NeoGeo Backward Compatibility: Downloaded software and PS3 save file system "Saved Data Utility (PS3)" - There are 2 save files for the emulator itself plus 1 for each title you've started in addition to any saves you've made
- TG16/PCE Backward Compatibility:  Downloaded software and PS3 save file system "Saved Data Utility (PS3)" - There is a Backup Ram file for each title that supports it in addition to any saves you've made

The reason the PS2 game won't work directly in a non-BC model PS3 and the new digital version can is that the new version is a partial port.. it's rewritten to run on the PS3 but still uses the BC firmware (you can tell because the Sixaxis/DS3 will SHUT OFF when the PS2 firmware loads and you have to restart the controller.. just like with the BC model PS3s running an actual game.

[Atariboy]

The only PS2 component in the firmware of a non BC system is the save system, which was left intact in case people wanted to use their PS3 to organize and store their PS2 saves on.

This is straight emulation and doesn't utilize that component. These games have their own PS3 saves.

The reason your disc doesn't work, onmode-ky, is that this emulation capability is brand new and is just being used on titles they want to sell digitally through the Playstation Network. It's being done the same way Xbox backwards compatibility was done on the 360.

[cimerians]

Good info.

I did notice that you had to "turn on" the PS2 controller and I also noticed that it didn't ask me to choose a save slot.

At least we now know where to look for new releases.

It seems they have been picking some good but obscure games IMO. 4-6 titles a month is quite a lot!

[Wntermute]

Atariboy, on Fri Oct 7, 2011 11:51 PM, said:

The only PS2 component in the firmware of a non BC system is the save system, which was left intact in case people wanted to use their PS3 to organize and store their PS2 saves on.

Actually, since there aren't separate firmware updates for the hardware BC, software BC, non-BC, and slim models, the PS2 firmware is on the non-BC/slim models.. it just wasn't used because the EE/GS chip or software BC ROM isn't there. It's like a regular computer operating system that way.. there may be drivers in the software for hardware that can't be attached or doesn't exist. Normal use just jumps around that part.

[MagitekAngel]

Regardless of how these games are or aren't being emulated, I'm disappointed to see that Sony is inevitably selling these games back to consumers after stripping out their ability to load their original discs.  I've never bought a PS1 classic and have no intentions of buying a PS2 classic.

[Necron99]

MagitekAngel, on Sun Oct 9, 2011 9:38 AM, said:

Regardless of how these games are or aren't being emulated, I'm disappointed to see that Sony is inevitably selling these games back to consumers after stripping out their ability to load their original discs.  I've never bought a PS1 classic and have no intentions of buying a PS2 classic.

I agree, I've bought lots of PS1 and PS2 Classics....just not on PSN, I buy the original discs.

[onmode-ky]

Wntermute, on Fri Oct 7, 2011 11:20 PM, said:

- PSP Mini Backward Compatibility: Downloaded software and separate save file system "Saved Data Utility (minis/PSP)"
- PSP HD Forward Compatibility: Downloaded software and separate save file system "Saved Data Utility (minis/PSP)" - This is for the upcoming PSP HD Remaster line

Technically, these two can be combined under the label "PSP Save File Backup Capability," since any PSP save file, no matter whether the PS3 can use, will use, or will never be able to use it, can be managed through that utility.

Wntermute, on Fri Oct 7, 2011 11:20 PM, said:

- NeoGeo Backward Compatibility: Downloaded software and PS3 save file system "Saved Data Utility (PS3)" - There are 2 save files for the emulator itself plus 1 for each title you've started in addition to any saves you've made

I see.  I don't have any NeoGeo for PS3 games, but I have one for the PSP.  I recall there being far more than just 2 save files for the emulator there, and I believe individual games may even have multiple files (without including replay files).

Wntermute, on Fri Oct 7, 2011 11:20 PM, said:

- TG16/PCE Backward Compatibility:  Downloaded software and PS3 save file system "Saved Data Utility (PS3)" - There is a Backup Ram file for each title that supports it in addition to any saves you've made

The PSP versions of these work similarly.  Curiously, the PS3 and PSP emulators (i.e., the individual game binaries) are so disparate that their save files are totally incompatible with each other.  It's kind of weird making one purchase and getting one game playable on two systems--but without cross-compatible save files as I've grown accustomed to with the PS1 Classics.

Wntermute, on Fri Oct 7, 2011 11:20 PM, said:

The reason the PS2 game won't work directly in a non-BC model PS3 and the new digital version can is that the new version is a partial port.. it's rewritten to run on the PS3 but still uses the BC firmware

That's what I suspect as well, but do you have a reliable source for that information?  That's what I'm looking for.  I'm not trusting that PSN guy I found, since his claim of emulation "just like with the PS1 Classics," rather than partial porting, seems implausible.

Atariboy, on Fri Oct 7, 2011 11:51 PM, said:

The reason your disc doesn't work, onmode-ky, is that this emulation capability is brand new and is just being used on titles they want to sell digitally through the Playstation Network.

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying.  I'm aware that whatever is being used to allow these games to run on the PS3 is limited to what is currently being offered in the PS Store.  My point in bringing up my own disc not working was to counter the claim by that PSN guy that it was straight emulation just like how the PS3 runs PS1 games, since it clearly isn't the same mechanism.  The reason I brought it up was not that I couldn't understand why my disc didn't work.

Atariboy, on Fri Oct 7, 2011 11:51 PM, said:

It's being done the same way Xbox backwards compatibility was done on the 360.

I have to disagree with this analogy.  The Xbox BC patches were meant to provide compatibility with physical disc copies of games, which is not what we're getting with the PS Store PS2 Classics.

cimerians, on Sat Oct 8, 2011 7:45 AM, said:

It seems they have been picking some good but obscure games IMO. 4-6 titles a month is quite a lot!

That PSN guy noted that they specifically chose hard-to-find titles to start off the program.

Assuming that these PS2 Classics releases are indeed partial ports, with some portions rewritten to be PS3-native, I'm hoping that Sony will eventually release "PS2 compatibility patches" per game in the PS Store as free downloads.  That is, these would be binaries which hook into the PS3's existing PS2 emulator such that the emulator translates code from a PS2 disc in the drive along with running as-needed "replacement" code from the patches (e.g., "when disc code calls function X, use code Y from patch file instead of attempting translation").  This would be a workable method of reinstating backward compatibility, though perhaps not entirely user-friendly, along with being limited to a trickle of titles being patched in this manner.

onmode-ky

[Wntermute]

onmode-ky, on Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:56 PM, said:

(1) Technically, these two can be combined under the label "PSP Save File Backup Capability," since any PSP save file, no matter whether the PS3 can use, will use, or will never be able to use it, can be managed through that utility.

(2) I see.  I don't have any NeoGeo for PS3 games, but I have one for the PSP.  I recall there being far more than just 2 save files for the emulator there, and I believe individual games may even have multiple files (without including replay files).

(3) The PSP versions of these work similarly.  Curiously, the PS3 and PSP emulators (i.e., the individual game binaries) are so disparate that their save files are totally incompatible with each other.  It's kind of weird making one purchase and getting one game playable on two systems--but without cross-compatible save files as I've grown accustomed to with the PS1 Classics.

(4) That's what I suspect as well, but do you have a reliable source for that information?  That's what I'm looking for.  I'm not trusting that PSN guy I found, since his claim of emulation "just like with the PS1 Classics," rather than partial porting, seems implausible.

(5) I think you misinterpreted what I was saying.  I'm aware that whatever is being used to allow these games to run on the PS3 is limited to what is currently being offered in the PS Store.  My point in bringing up my own disc not working was to counter the claim by that PSN guy that it was straight emulation just like how the PS3 runs PS1 games, since it clearly isn't the same mechanism.  The reason I brought it up was not that I couldn't understand why my disc didn't work.

(6) I have to disagree with this analogy.  The Xbox BC patches were meant to provide compatibility with physical disc copies of games, which is not what we're getting with the PS Store PS2 Classics.

(7) That PSN guy noted that they specifically chose hard-to-find titles to start off the program.

( 8 ) Assuming that these PS2 Classics releases are indeed partial ports, with some portions rewritten to be PS3-native, I'm hoping that Sony will eventually release "PS2 compatibility patches" per game in the PS Store as free downloads.  That is, these would be binaries which hook into the PS3's existing PS2 emulator such that the emulator translates code from a PS2 disc in the drive along with running as-needed "replacement" code from the patches (e.g., "when disc code calls function X, use code Y from patch file instead of attempting translation").  This would be a workable method of reinstating backward compatibility, though perhaps not entirely user-friendly, along with being limited to a trickle of titles being patched in this manner.

1. The list I made was to highlight the games for other systems that the PS3 can play. The PSP HD Remasters appear to be similar to the old Super GameBoy or Xbox/360 (example: the BK games) method of dual-platform compatibility, where there's a version for each platform on the same media. Other than the upcoming HD Remasters, the Minis are the only PSP games a PS3 can currently play (legally).
2. I don't have any PSP NeoGeo games and shortly after I posted that, I did find a third "NeoGeo Station"-specific file.
3. Keeping to the subject of differences between emulators on PSP and PS3.. I have noticed that the PS1 emulator on PSP will auto-generate a card for each title, whereas on the PS3 you have to manage them yourself. That said, I haven't really played with much of anything on the PSP because I can play most of it on my PS3 with a more comfortable controller.
4 & 5. From what the official line was when they were announced, (http://blog.us.plays...ughout-october/) the PS2 games are "in their original form" .. whatever wrapper they add around them is what controls how the saves interact with the system (PS3-style) and how they tie into the PS2 BIOS (which clearly starts, at least on my BC model). Even the PCE games have more to them than just the game, as they include the manual as well. This way, what he said was true.. from a certain point of view.
6. Atariboy may have been referring to the Xbox Originals, which are 360 downloads of BC-capable Xbox 1 titles .. with the same bugs in the emulator as the disc version.
7. The PS2 Classics already released are a 3:2 mix of fan favorites and Greatest Hits titles. Since Maximo and Odin Sphere made the GH list, they're hardly obscure.
8. That sounds amazingly like what Microsoft did with their BC. Obviously something happened hardware-wise between the software BC models and non-BC models that broke the emulator in such a way that it was quicker to turn it off than work around it. Whatever that was is no longer the case at least with these 5 titles and any released going forward (or their wrappers are title-specific emulators/native code for problem spots). Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they released a 4.x firmware that reinstated software BC for everyone... but then I wouldn't be surprised if that never happened either, because let's face it.. that would cut into the digital long tail they're developing with this new line.

Aside from all that, I did notice recently that PS1 Classic games that were originally multi-disc have an extra menu option on the Home menu... to select which disc you're working on. I thought that was an interesting touch, since they could've just thrown all the files together in one larger-than-CD logical volume.

Edited by Wntermute, Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:50 PM.

[onmode-ky]

Wntermute, on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:49 PM, said:

1. The list I made was to highlight the games for other systems that the PS3 can play. The PSP HD Remasters appear to be similar to the old Super GameBoy or Xbox/360 (example: the BK games) method of dual-platform compatibility, where there's a version for each platform on the same media. Other than the upcoming HD Remasters, the Minis are the only PSP games a PS3 can currently play (legally).

Sorry, I wasn't trying to refute anything you were saying. I was just making a side note about the PSP parts.

Wntermute, on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:49 PM, said:

3. Keeping to the subject of differences between emulators on PSP and PS3.. I have noticed that the PS1 emulator on PSP will auto-generate a card for each title, whereas on the PS3 you have to manage them yourself. That said, I haven't really played with much of anything on the PSP because I can play most of it on my PS3 with a more comfortable controller.

The PSP's PS1 emulator actually creates 2 virtual memory cards for each game, and the game will only be able to use those cards.  If you hook the PSP up to the PS3 (or stick the Memory Stick into a PS3 with a slot for it), the PS3's utility is able to see those as PS1 memory cards even though the actual file structure is not the same.  The PS3 is able to copy save files back and forth between its own virtual memory cards and those of the PSP; however, when copying to the PSP, it asks if you want to reformat the save file to be playable on the PSP or if you just want to put the save file on the Memory Stick for transport/backup purposes.  The differences are visible if you look at the Memory Stick via a PC.  The memory cards are individual files in the PSP-playable implementation, while the save files are are the individual files otherwise (they're also not stored in the same directory trees).

Wntermute, on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:49 PM, said:

4 & 5. From what the official line was when they were announced, (http://blog.us.plays...ughout-october/) the PS2 games are "in their original form" .. whatever wrapper they add around them is what controls how the saves interact with the system (PS3-style) and how they tie into the PS2 BIOS (which clearly starts, at least on my BC model). Even the PCE games have more to them than just the game, as they include the manual as well. This way, what he said was true.. from a certain point of view.

Okay, I finally found a Sony-side comment (response to a user comment) in that blog post which confirmed that the PS2 games were being converted for the PS3.  If you combine that with the other Sony guy who said they were being emulated, I guess that's "evidence" that it's part port, part emulation. . . . What I'm really looking for is some detail on which parts they have to convert, though.  That would give some greater visibility on whether this is possible (probable) across the full spectrum of PS2 titles or only certain ones, that used a common library they've done conversion work for already.

Wntermute, on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:49 PM, said:

7. The PS2 Classics already released are a 3:2 mix of fan favorites and Greatest Hits titles. Since Maximo and Odin Sphere made the GH list, they're hardly obscure.

I think they meant "hard to find nowadays" rather than straight "obscure."  Granted, I can't say I know the rarity of any of those; maybe even the GH releases are not easy to find now?

Wntermute, on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:49 PM, said:

8. That sounds amazingly like what Microsoft did with their BC. Obviously something happened hardware-wise between the software BC models and non-BC models that broke the emulator in such a way that it was quicker to turn it off than work around it. Whatever that was is no longer the case at least with these 5 titles and any released going forward (or their wrappers are title-specific emulators/native code for problem spots). Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they released a 4.x firmware that reinstated software BC for everyone...

The software BC models still had the PS2 graphics chip, while using emulation for the PS2's Emotion Engine CPU.  The non-BC models lost the PS2 graphics chip, which is what killed PS2 compatibility for them.  The implication is that the PS3 cannot effectively emulate that GPU, perhaps only able to do so with noticeable performance impact.  These PS2 Classics downloads most likely emulate the CPU and parts of the GPU, while redirecting certain GPU tasks to PS3-native code.  I'm most curious about whether the parts that got converted are applicable to all PS2 games or whether PS2 games used a big bunch of different graphics libraries which would have to be converted separately (thereby both slowing the flow of incoming PS2 games to the Store and limiting the number which would be converted, as some would no doubt be considered not worth the programmer resources).  A closely related question: how low-level was the conversion done?  Were programmer-readable libraries converted, or did specific strings of assembly language known to be commonly used get converted, or somewhere in the middle?

Wntermute, on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:49 PM, said:

but then I wouldn't be surprised if that never happened either, because let's face it.. that would cut into the digital long tail they're developing with this new line.

However, the existence of PS1 disc compatibility in addition to PS1 Classics in the Store contradicts that theory, doesn't it?

Wntermute, on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:49 PM, said:

Aside from all that, I did notice recently that PS1 Classic games that were originally multi-disc have an extra menu option on the Home menu... to select which disc you're working on. I thought that was an interesting touch, since they could've just thrown all the files together in one larger-than-CD logical volume.

The PS1 Classics are largely unmodified PS1 games, though.  That is, their code expects multi-disc games to be on multiple discs.  You would have to rewrite/recompile the source code in order to take that out (after all, they're coded to ask for disc-switching upon event triggers, not just when "the data isn't on this disc, so it must be on another one" occurs).  I think the most that was done in making the download versions was editing object pointers so that things which had the same name on different discs now have unique identifiers in the file (and, if things had different names on different discs but were the same object, they're now the same, single object).  Of course, I'm just hypothesizing.

onmode-ky

[Atariboy]

onmode-ky, on Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:56 PM, said:

Atariboy, on Fri Oct 7, 2011 11:51 PM, said:

It's being done the same way Xbox backwards compatibility was done on the 360.

I have to disagree with this analogy.  The Xbox BC patches were meant to provide compatibility with physical disc copies of games, which is not what we're getting with the PS Store PS2 Classics.

I'm talking about how they're emulating the games, not the purpose behind why they're doing it.

These certainly aren't partial ports. They're not putting money into a half dozen PS2 games a month to partially reprogram them or port them over, especially games like God Hand that didn't succeed financially the first time around. Such a thing isn't cheap for what is basically a Virtual Console style program.

They have a emulator, from what I've read, that is basically hacked for each game to customize it for running that piece of software since the emulator isn't anywhere close to 100% compatibility with the PS2. It's just like how Microsoft did things.

How would you partially port a game over anyways with half of the code converted to run natively on PS3 hardware and the other half remaining unchanged and running via emulation? I'm no programmer, but that doesn't sound like it makes any sense to me. What does it accomplish, if it is practical?

Edited by Atariboy, Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:08 PM.

[onmode-ky]

Atariboy, on Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:03 PM, said:

These certainly aren't partial ports. They're not putting money into a half dozen PS2 games a month to partially reprogram them or port them over, especially games like God Hand that didn't succeed financially the first time around. Such a thing isn't cheap for what is basically a Virtual Console style program.

They wouldn't necessarily have to do a whole lot of game-specific work if most of the PS3-native parts of the code are able to be used across multiple games.  Thus, they could pack the PS2 game along with a small library of in-common PS3 functions and instruct the emulator to run the PS3 parts when certain instructions/functions are called in the PS2 code.  The expense of doing it this way is basically analogous to the expense of fixing a bunch of bugs that get found in the emulator itself; it may cost more than that, but it similarly benefits a wide spectrum of your product line.

Atariboy, on Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:03 PM, said:

They have a emulator, from what I've read, that is basically hacked for each game to customize it for running that piece of software since the emulator isn't anywhere close to 100% compatibility with the PS2. It's just like how Microsoft did things.

Could you point me to what you read?  I don't mean that I disbelieve you, rather that I'm trying to find as much hard information about the background of this as possible.

Until I see definite evidence of this, though, I still don't think this is the same as the method used by Microsoft.  As I understand it, the Microsoft solution had 3 parts: emulator residing in the firmware, emulation profile downloaded to the hard drive, and then game itself either on optical disc or hard drive.  What I think we have on the PS3 is just emulator in the firmware and game on hard drive, where the game has some substantial differences from the PS2 game, rather than just being accompanied by a list of settings for the emulator to operate under.  The whole reason the PS3 quit PS2 emulation for so many years was that the PS2 GPU could not be (satisfactorily) emulated on the machine, and I would be surprised if the solution were as simple as simply having the emulator switch modes or switch subroutines based on a settings configuration file.

Atariboy, on Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:03 PM, said:

How would you partially port a game over anyways with half of the code converted to run natively on PS3 hardware and the other half remaining unchanged and running via emulation? I'm no programmer, but that doesn't sound like it makes any sense to me. What does it accomplish, if it is practical?

Well, actually, it does make sense, and what it accomplishes is allowing the game to run without performance issues.  If you try to run a SNES emulator on, say, a 486DX2-66, I would imagine the game might run very slowly, with lots of frame-skipping, etc.  If you converted the code to be x86/Windows-native, it would play at the right speed because it's not stuck spending the entire time trying to translate instructions.  Similarly, if you took PS2 code that ran poorly (i.e., bottlenecked) when being translated on the fly by the PS3 and ported it so that it could just run without having to go through the translation step, you would improve the performance of the program.  What you would then have to do is flag the emulator: "translate the PS2 code on the fly like normal unless you find one of this set {A} of instructions/functions, in which case fetch instructions from this PS3 code over here that have already been translated and optimized, then return."  Note that I'm not saying the PS2 game actually needs to be recompiled/relinked, which would indeed require more business resources.

Does what I said sound reasonable?  Unreasonable?

onmode-ky

[Atariboy]

<sup>I can't point you to a reliable source, it's been gleened from reading what individuals like yourself have said at a variety of forums. As far as I'm aware, Sony and the involved publishers with this program have yet to chime in with any actual details on the process involved here (The technical hurdles, just how PS2 playback is achieved, the game selection process, etc.).

I've read enough post from you over the years where I know I can't dismiss what you're saying, and it does make some sense. But I'm still somewhat skeptical. Unless it's extremely simple and straight forward to accomplish, which it quite possibly sounds like it isn't, I'm not sure how it's going to work out for a practical and financial standpoint. Even partially porting a PS2 game so the GPU task are running natively sounds like a fairly expensive and labor intensive task, to me. And they're going to do it for 4-6 games a month at $10 a game and include games in the lineup that were financial losers even the first time around?

I'm certainly curious to learn more about it, just like you are.</sup>

[cybercylon]

I don't know if I would call Maximo and Odin Sphere financial losers per se... didn't they both sell enough to make it to the greatest hits line.

I missed Odin Sphere the first time around. $9.99 doesn't seem like a bad deal...

[Atariboy]

They both were rereleased as Greatest Hits, it appears.

[Wntermute]

The way they choose which games to put on PSOne Classics (and now PS2 Classics) sometimes seems like they're throwing darts at a board full of game names randomized up.. Castlevania: SOTN and Final Fantasy VII were no-brainers.. but Motor Toon Grand Prix? Yakiniku Bugyou? XS Junior League Football?

Also, why did they have to use the import version of Tall Unlimited and Blockids? or the Mega Man games? Those were already localized.. though to be fair, the Mega Man ones were on the PS2 compilation rather than released separately.

[Atariboy]

Motor Toon Grand Prix makes lots of sense. It's a nice game, a forgotten classic, and there's some interest there from people without any nostalgia towards it due to what the developer transitioned into programming afterwards.

I'm just surprised the Japanese original was never released. it's a nice game and very import friendly (What we know as Motor Toon Grand Prix is actually the sequel to a nice launch game in Japan).

There was no US versions of the PSOne Mega Man games to release on PSN for the PSOne. They were Japanese exclusive releases.

[Wntermute]

http://blog.us.plays...1-new-releases/

Next batch of games:

• Harvest Moon: Save the Homeland
  
• Raiden III
  
• Bloodrayne

Interesting mix. Gonna pass on these, but might pick up Bloodrayne later.