Double Dragon XM

[rockman_x_2002]

Long as we're playing woulda-coulda-shoulda concerning Double Dragon on the 7800, I thought I'd try my hand at converting the title tune into POKEY music, listening to the NES version as a source.

 

It's not done, but I have to say it's not turning out too badly just yet. Here's a small 27-second sample MP3 for you to check out of what I've gotten done so far tonight.

DD_Sample01.mp3

[DracIsBack]

Long as we're playing woulda-coulda-shoulda concerning Double Dragon on the 7800, I thought I'd try my hand at converting the title tune into POKEY music, listening to the NES version as a source.

 

It's not done, but I have to say it's not turning out too badly just yet. Here's a small 27-second sample MP3 for you to check out of what I've gotten done so far tonight.

 

Wow Rockman - that sounds AWESOME!

[Lynxpro]

Long as we're playing woulda-coulda-shoulda concerning Double Dragon on the 7800, I thought I'd try my hand at converting the title tune into POKEY music, listening to the NES version as a source.

 

It's not done, but I have to say it's not turning out too badly just yet. Here's a small 27-second sample MP3 for you to check out of what I've gotten done so far tonight.

 

That effin rocks, man!

[MobiusAqua]

Oh my goodness! Why wasn't that in the original release! Nice!

[DracIsBack]

Oh my goodness! Why wasn't that in the original release! Nice!

 

The whole release seemed like it was done on a cheap development budget. the Abobos being completely re-used from Title Match Pro Wrestling and the 128K cart kinda gave that away.

[rockman_x_2002]

 

The whole release seemed like it was done on a cheap development budget. the Abobos being completely re-used from Title Match Pro Wrestling and the 128K cart kinda gave that away.

 

On top of that, being an Activision release, they likely wouldn't have had access to the POKEY anyway, and wouldn't have opted for it if they had. Budgets and cost-cutting and all that crap, I would imagine.

Edited April 27, 2015 by rockman_x_2002

[DracIsBack]

If I have played 7800 DD back in the day with Pac Man Red's graphics and Rockman's music, I just might have died ... and I would have died extremely happy!

Edited April 27, 2015 by DracIsBack

[Lynxpro]

 

On top of that, being an Activision release, they likely wouldn't have had access to the POKEY anyway, and wouldn't have opted for it if they had. Budgets and cost-cutting and all that crap, I would imagine.

 

 

I'm sure Atari Corp would've sold them POKEYs. But being that it was Activision, they could've just used their own DPC chip. For the life of me, I don't know why Activision didn't use them on their 2600 and 7800 releases post 1985. Pre-crash, they were so focused on quality but post-crash, they seemed to pinch pennies just like Tramiel's Atari Corp did. Maybe all of that money saved went to pay the marketing genius who instructed them to name themselves Mediagenic at the time.

[+Darrin9999]

Nice!

[rockman_x_2002]

Well, as promised, I've continued my work on Double Dragon's title screen tune for the POKEY, and now it's pretty much complete. Thought I would share the final product with everyone, or what's close to the final product, at least.

 

DoubleDragonXM_Title_Final.mp3

[Lynxpro]

Well, as promised, I've continued my work on Double Dragon's title screen tune for the POKEY, and now it's pretty much complete. Thought I would share the final product with everyone, or what's close to the final product, at least.

 

 

Wow! That's awesome, Rockman! Your POKEY rendition has more life to it than the Japanese FM audio version on the Sega Master System!

 

What other 7800 games would you be interested in adding kick-ass POKEY audio to? Or should I say which games we can get you interested in doing?

 

Suck it, SID chip…POKEY rules!

 

By chance, if you are willing to reveal your tools of the trade, what software did you use to make that theme using the POKEY?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Lynxpro

[Mayhem]

Suck it, SID chip…POKEY rules!

 

Pfffff, no chance there heh, SID still is better. The DD title rendition is pretty good though on the POKEY.

[DracIsBack]

 

Pfffff, no chance there heh, SID still is better. The DD title rendition is pretty good though on the POKEY.

 

Hehehe - even 30 years after the fact, I'm always amazed at how dismissive C64 and A8 fans are of each other's hardware.

[Lynxpro]

 

Pfffff, no chance there heh, SID still is better. The DD title rendition is pretty good though on the POKEY.

 

 

I'll take the POKEY rendition over that, thank you very much.

[Lynxpro]

 

Hehehe - even 30 years after the fact, I'm always amazed at how dismissive C64 and A8 fans are of each other's hardware.

 

 

This is an Atari themed forum. Commodore played a big hand in the death of Atari Inc due to their insane price war for a computer that despite debuting almost 4 years after the Atari 8-Bit computer line it couldn't outperform it yet millions more bought it because it was cheap. So yeah, I know which side I've always preferred.

 

If Atari was "The Foundation", to reference Isaac Asimov's classic scifi works as an allegory here, then Commodore was "The Mule". Except here, The Foundation was never resurrected to prominence and the petty barbarian kingdoms rule the galaxy now. Even the Second Foundation [Atari Games] has since fallen.

[DracIsBack]

This thread may get off track quickly ... there's a certain hundred plus page thread of A8 vs. C64 that comes to mind.

 

Back to Double Dragon. Love the MP3s. Love the graphics!

[rockman_x_2002]

Personally, I like both the C64 and the A8 computers, in spite of only having a C64 since "back in the day", and not actually owning an A8 (something I would love to correct in the not-too-distant future). But I have no bias toward either machine as I see strengths and weaknesses in both of them, and that includes both the SID and POKEY. I love to do music on both of those chips, as well as the NES's 2A03, although admittedly I would say I have a bit more experience with the 2A03. But thankfully, that translates in the ability for me to be able to take just about any song from any game produced for the NES and make a pretty faithful conversion to the POKEY, as I've done here.

 

By chance, if you are willing to reveal your tools of the trade, what software did you use to make that theme using the POKEY?

 

To answer your question, I use a couple of different tools. The first is for creating the POKEY music itself. For that, I use Raster Music Tracker, which you can find here.

 

For NES music, I use a program called Famitracker, which can be found here.

 

Converting music from the NES to the POKEY (or vice-versa) is fairly simple since the interface in both of these programs are somewhat similar (even though they keyboard commands are vastly different). If you can read music, then it's easy to read what the notes are to a particular song. The work involved for me is usually adjustment of timing, instrument tone, etc., since the POKEY and the 2A03 are so different from each other.

 

So, with the title screen done for Double Dragon, I suppose the next logical step would be porting over the music for the first stage in the game.

[Stun Runner 87]

This game would be one of the greatest with the upgrades.

[Lynxpro]

Personally, I like both the C64 and the A8 computers, in spite of only having a C64 since "back in the day", and not actually owning an A8 (something I would love to correct in the not-too-distant future). But I have no bias toward either machine as I see strengths and weaknesses in both of them, and that includes both the SID and POKEY. I love to do music on both of those chips, as well as the NES's 2A03, although admittedly I would say I have a bit more experience with the 2A03. But thankfully, that translates in the ability for me to be able to take just about any song from any game produced for the NES and make a pretty faithful conversion to the POKEY, as I've done here.

 

 

To answer your question, I use a couple of different tools. The first is for creating the POKEY music itself. For that, I use Raster Music Tracker, which you can find here.

 

For NES music, I use a program called Famitracker, which can be found here.

 

Converting music from the NES to the POKEY (or vice-versa) is fairly simple since the interface in both of these programs are somewhat similar (even though they keyboard commands are vastly different). If you can read music, then it's easy to read what the notes are to a particular song. The work involved for me is usually adjustment of timing, instrument tone, etc., since the POKEY and the 2A03 are so different from each other.

 

So, with the title screen done for Double Dragon, I suppose the next logical step would be porting over the music for the first stage in the game.

 

I have a feeling you are going to be a very popular Atari Age member, Rockman! Thanks for sharing your tricks of the trade!

 

And of course the Raster Music Tracker software would come from [oops, sorry, it wasn't Poland this time] the Czech Republic..some of the best Atari chip tunes enthusiasts come from Central Europe [see, I didn't say "East Block"]. For those who prefer the SID, you gotta hear what some of those guys have done with the GTIA producing SID'ish music with a "graphics" chip!

Edited May 1, 2015 by Lynxpro

[+Stephen]

Long as we're playing woulda-coulda-shoulda concerning Double Dragon on the 7800, I thought I'd try my hand at converting the title tune into POKEY music, listening to the NES version as a source.

 

It's not done, but I have to say it's not turning out too badly just yet. Here's a small 27-second sample MP3 for you to check out of what I've gotten done so far tonight.

Great bass from the PoKey!

[Jetboot Jack]

Lovely pokey tune!

 

As far as C64 DD I always preferred the older C64 version music to the Ocean one though - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tquUSgETAto

 

sTeVE

Edited May 21, 2015 by Jetboot Jack

[JagCD]

 

 

This is an Atari themed forum. Commodore played a big hand in the death of Atari Inc due to their insane price war for a computer that despite debuting almost 4 years after the Atari 8-Bit computer line it couldn't outperform it yet millions more bought it because it was cheap. So yeah, I know which side I've always preferred.

 

If Atari was "The Foundation", to reference Isaac Asimov's classic scifi works as an allegory here, then Commodore was "The Mule". Except here, The Foundation was never resurrected to prominence and the petty barbarian kingdoms rule the galaxy now. Even the Second Foundation [Atari Games] has since fallen.

 

I'm not really sure how an Atari fan could possibly throw that stone. Afterall, the guy responsible for the Commoodore price war ended up buying/saving Atari after Warner left it for dead. Not only that, but if it weren't for Jack.... There never would have been amazing computers like the Atari ST (because Warner probably would have just taken the writedown if no buyer was found and completely shut Atari down post-crash like Coleco had done).

 

In my experience, I always found Pokey to be better with sound effects -- and SID seemed to sound better for music. As for the graphics, I always thought that was a mixed bag. There were a lot of graphics modes on the Atari that were limited to just 4 colors -- but the C64 always had access to all 16 colors regardless of what graphics mode it was using. I still own/regularly use my C64 and Atari XEGS.... So I'm in the middle of the road.

Edited May 25, 2015 by JagCD

[rockman_x_2002]

 

In my experience, I always found Pokey to be better with sound effects -- and SID seemed to sound better for music

 

 

Going on that thought, I wonder what technical voodoo would be required to get both a POKEY and a SID on a 7800 cart. SID for the music, and POKEY for the SFX.

 

On topic: Incidentally, it's been fairly busy for me the last couple of weeks, so I haven't had a chance to really work on any more music yet. But the "Mission 1" BGM is still on my plate to do next. Hopefully I'll be able to get to that sooner rather than later.

Edited May 26, 2015 by rockman_x_2002

[Lynxpro]

 

I'm not really sure how an Atari fan could possibly throw that stone. Afterall, the guy responsible for the Commoodore price war ended up buying/saving Atari after Warner left it for dead. Not only that, but if it weren't for Jack.... There never would have been amazing computers like the Atari ST (because Warner probably would have just taken the writedown if no buyer was found and completely shut Atari down post-crash like Coleco had done).

 

In my experience, I always found Pokey to be better with sound effects -- and SID seemed to sound better for music. As for the graphics, I always thought that was a mixed bag. There were a lot of graphics modes on the Atari that were limited to just 4 colors -- but the C64 always had access to all 16 colors regardless of what graphics mode it was using. I still own/regularly use my C64 and Atari XEGS.... So I'm in the middle of the road.

 

Easy enough stone to throw. Without the insane, emphasis on insane, Commodore price war, Atari Inc would've survived. Looking back, there was going to be a shake up in the North American home video game industry, but it was Commodore's price war that caused parents to stop buying Atari consoles and games and shift purchasing over to the C64. It was the very reason why Atari, Coleco, and Mattel became so concerned about marketing adapters and modules that could turn a video game console into a computer. Had the price war not happened, none of that would've transpired. Hell, the Adam project caused Coleco to completely fail.

 

Listen to Keith Robinson [of Mattel Electronics/Intellivision] and Nolan Bushnell talk about the crash in one of their interviews. They both said in their view that "we" collectively lost 10 years worth of innovation due to it. Add to that a good 15 additional years of innovation lost to Microsoft's later tactics and it's pretty clear why we don't have jet packs and flying cars today.

 

A lessened industry shakeup would've still brought in James Morgan to Atari but there wouldn't have been so much pressure on Warner to dump Atari. They would've given him more time to turn the company around. The 7800 would've debuted nationally at Christmas 1984 as intended. It would've had all of Atari's arcade hits available which didn't happen in our timeline because of Warner's fire sale of Atari Consumer to Tramiel which led to Atari Coin becoming "Atari Games" which then created "Tengen" to sell and license their wares which ended up on the NES [and not the 7800]. As for the ST, well, Atari Inc was going to get the Amiga. They also had the Gaza and Sierra systems at their Advanced Research division, the Rainbow chipset, the AMY music chip, and the Snowcap GUI running atop BSD. So I'd say we would've been still covered for 16-bit glory even without the "ST". Besides, without former Atari Inc staff like Landon Dyer working on the "ST", TOS would've probably sucked so it would've failed whether released by Trammel Technologies, Mindset, or whatever other computer company Tramiel would've acquired other than Atari Consumer. And the Tramiel-less Commodore wouldn't have had a 16-bit successor. I'll take that scenario over what actually happened any day.

 

I'd be up for seeing a 7800 cartridge with a SID and POKEY installed. It's entirely possible. Hell, had MOS not been acquired by Commodore in the first place, the SID probably would've been made available for sale to Atari and other competitors of that era.

[JagCD]

 

Easy enough stone to throw. Without the insane, emphasis on insane, Commodore price war, Atari Inc would've survived. Looking back, there was going to be a shake up in the North American home video game industry, but it was Commodore's price war that caused parents to stop buying Atari consoles and games and shift purchasing over to the C64. It was the very reason why Atari, Coleco, and Mattel became so concerned about marketing adapters and modules that could turn a video game console into a computer. Had the price war not happened, none of that would've transpired. Hell, the Adam project caused Coleco to completely fail.

 

See...... I still respectivefully disagree. I think because of the Commodore and Apple II, people got a lot more sophisticated games -- cartridges couldn't compete with floppies at the time for storage space and what really killed Atari Inc wasn't the prices.... It was the depth of the games. Home computers had arguably better graphics, deeper gameplay and superior music/sound (by 1983 standards) on the 8 bit home computers. I remember when my family upgraded my Atari 2600 to a Commodore 64.... and it was a huge jump (although, I never discarded my 2600 and still use it do this day). I think the huge mistake of the early days is that consumers/industry executives saw game consoles and home computers as mutually exclusive.... While later generations of game consoles began to complement the home computer. Nowadays, everyone owns both a PC and a game console, but back in the 1980's it was an either/or situation.

Edited May 26, 2015 by JagCD