KevinMos3 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Need to echo Perry's post from before. It looks incredible... Thanks Perry, Robert, and everyone else who has given feedback. I really appreciate your support. I'm really hoping someone is able to fix the gameplay... I used to feel the same way. It seemed way too difficult. I was used to just punching away on the NES version (which rewards you with more points for punches -- and more points give more moves). However, after playing around with this one quite a bit more, I found it's much easier than the NES, SMS, or arcade versions. It requires a different strategy, as punching around will get you knocked on your back unless you've kicked the opponent first. For this one, you can easily beat it just by kicking (and I'm not talking about the reverse jump kick which makes it even easier). You can go through the whole game, just kicking the crap out of everyone. For variety I typically kick, jump kick, and reverse jump kick my way around, while throwing in a punch or headbutt here and there for fun. The elbow smash is not as easy to pull off as in the 2600 version, so I don't mess with that one much. The baseball bat in Mission 3 lasts nearly to the end which makes the forest very easy. Once I get my cartridge back, I'll do another gameplay video. Also, I bet having pokey music would totally change the mind's perception and feel of the gameplay. Improvement to the sound, particularly, the background music, of course would be nice, but not as crucial as the gameplay tweaking... I would LOVE for the pokey music earlier in this thread to be added. I don't even know where to start with how to add that, but if someone *ahem* Perry *ahem, ahem* is willing to help and teach me, I would be beside myself. Seriously though, I know he has a LOT on his plate, and a hack like this would be a ton of work and even more if he were to try teaching how, but I'm not going to consider this hack finished until I or someone else has added pokey music. On a different note, I thought I'd post a pic of the final screen with some of the unused graphics in the ROM. I think I've mentioned before that the final screen balcony is in the ROM and I don't know if it's entirely unused, or if the screen just isn't programmed to scroll that far, but I'm guessing they are just unused. Anyway, I thought I'd pull the graphics and try to line them up where I think they'd be if they were used. I'm not sure if anything would go in the very top right corner, but I believe the rest are pretty much where they would have gone. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I feel like I'm spamming the thread, but here are some more pics. I keep thinking of things to change that I used to think were just fine the way they were. This time, an edited wall Dragon in Mission 4 and a redrawn Scoop Moto billboard car in Mission 1. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobiusAqua Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Well, I do agree that the newly-edited dragon looks better than the old one. And the car doesn't look too bad, even though the differences between the old and new car designs aren't as pronounced as the dragon's differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Looks like my ability to edit timed out just as I was about to update the pic, so here's an update to the car billboard. Very minor change, but the outline of the billboard has been edited and I think it stands out a bit more. Well, I do agree that the newly-edited dragon looks better than the old one. And the car doesn't look too bad, even though the differences between the old and new car designs aren't as pronounced as the dragon's differences. Thanks. Interesting... I'm kinda loving the car right now, but I'm a bit biased, as it's a complete redraw from scratch (keeping only the text on the sign). I used the arcade graphic for source material, so it's much closer to the arcade now. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 ...Also, I bet having pokey music would totally change the mind's perception and feel of the gameplay.... Even if the POKEY route was too difficult or time consuming to pursue or incorporate, a few 'simplier' updates could help considerably too: 1. The tempo of the background music. Currently, it sounds like it drags. Not sure if that was intentional by the developer(s), considering how short the melody is before it repeats, to provide a slightly longer than it actually is auditory illusion; regardless, increasing tempo would give it a slight boost in the positive direction. 2. An even slightly bigger boost would be to add the remainder of the background melody and not just the first 1/3 or so. 3. Incorporating The Perceptual Tuning Primer for the TIA sound. Really hoping, Kevin, for your graphics to be paired with the appropriate corresponding sound and gameplay. It's truly bittersweet to see the top-notch graphical updates paired with abysmal sound and subpar gameplay (IMHO). Love the updates (especially) to the dragon and further tweaking to the car, awesome work! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I haven't had time to test this out but has it been converted to Atari style bankswitching or is it still Activision style bankswitching? Converting it to Atari style bankswitching would be the first step needed to more easily add Pokey audio to it. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Should be able to just put the POKEY code somewhere not already in use by the game, like $4000. Don't need to limit ourselves to the original 128k. Maybe CPUWIZ's versi board could handle that. Could probably even make it dual POKEY/TIA. Keep the TIA music and switch to the POKEY music if it's detected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Making a POKEY/TIA cart sounds like a fun idea but I've yet to see anyone attempt that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Making a POKEY/TIA cart sounds like a fun idea but I've yet to see anyone attempt that. I did it for PacManPlus's Pac-man Collection but we haven't released it since the XM is not finished yet. Froggie was also designed to play TIA or POKEY by detecting presence of the POKEY. I think with Double Dragon, we could leave sound effects as TIA and just do the Music with POKEY. Leave TIA music in place as backup if POKEY isn't detected. Commando is an example of a production released game that used TIA for sound effects and POKEY for music. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Making a POKEY/TIA cart sounds like a fun idea but I've yet to see anyone attempt that. Beef Drop does it. If the POKEY chip is present (Via on-cart, XBoard, or the XM module) you'll hear POKEY sound. If there's no POKEY chip on the cart [AKA Value Edition], and no external POKEY present, the default is TIA sound. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Should be able to just put the POKEY code somewhere not already in use by the game, like $4000. Don't need to limit ourselves to the original 128k. Maybe CPUWIZ's versi board could handle that. Could probably even make it dual POKEY/TIA. Keep the TIA music and switch to the POKEY music if it's detected. I want to wear out my mouse button pressing "like" so much. I was messing around with video capture earlier this evening and ended up doing a playthrough of the latest graphics updates. I'll link to the hack thread instead of the video itself, because I plan to remove and replace the video when I have time to do a better playthrough and don't want to leave a dead link in this thread where i can't edit it. By linking to the hack thread, the link will remain valid whenever the video is replaced. Double Dragon Hack Thread with video playthrough 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) After a LOT more work, I have some very minor visible changes to Mission 2. Besides editing the steel beams, I really just wanted to add some outline to the ledge toward the end of the level. However, to do that I had to change the background color from black to gray, which meant that everything else in the level needed changed as well. The trade-off was that the boxes at the end were partially transparent and needed the left sides drawn differently. That turned out to be a good thing (imo), because it gave detail that I wouldn't have thought to add otherwise. Also changed a few things here and there. Anyway, here is a comparison pic. I just have to post and get feedback because it was waaaay too much work to justify the minor detail additions. Challenge: How many changes can you spot? Note: I had previously only changed the color palettes for Mission 2, so the original graphics below are the same as the previous release other than colors. [7d1a119cec58d483661609d6c23df90a] title=Double Dragon (RC6) type=6 pokey=false controller1=1 controller2=1 region=0 flags=0 Double Dragon (RC6).a78 Edited August 1, 2016 by KevinMos3 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Amazing improvement as always, Kevin. Thank you so much for sharing!! Challenge: How many changes can you spot? Note: I had previously only changed the color palettes for Mission 2, so the original graphics below are the same as the previous release other than colors. Mission 2 Compare.png 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lendorien Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Wow. It's amazing how all those little tweaks really improve the overall appearance of the game. A little polishing of the graphics changes the tone and makes to feel deeper and richer in tone and experience. I agree with others that revamping the music would be a great addition. The TIA music really is a little meh. Edited August 5, 2016 by Lendorien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 The TIA music really is a little meh. I agree, though it's also beating a dead horse at this point. Everyone knows TIA is a little meh and POKEY is much better. As far as TIA music goes, I actually thought they did a decent job. If you listen to the level ending music for example, it's not super different from what's on the SMS despite being TIA. Pokey will definitely enrich the experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) I couldn't stay away from this even while on vacation, so here are the latest edits to Mission 2: I'm hesitant to post this arcade pic because an 8-bit port can't look as good as the 16-bit original, but perhaps seeing them side by side will grow an appreciation for just how good the original developers did at replicating the arcade levels compared to the other 8-bit home console ports. I'm including the NES version, even though, it went a completely different route rather than imitating the arcade. Arcade: 7800: SMS: NES: Edited August 15, 2016 by KevinMos3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 7800 the wave of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Amazing improvement as always, Kevin. Thank you so much for sharing!! Double Dragon (RC6).png I thought I responded to this a while ago, but must have forgotten. Thanks, Marco, for that detailed response. You got nearly every change for that time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 https://youtu.be/HGzBkRvZCgU Just a test of how the Pokey music would sound in the game... I didn't actually put the Pokey code in the game, it's just a video edit. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Thats really cool!! ☺? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 Making a POKEY/TIA cart sounds like a fun idea but I've yet to see anyone attempt that. Isn't that what Commando does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 https://youtu.be/HGzBkRvZCgU Just a test of how the Pokey music would sound in the game... I didn't actually put the Pokey code in the game, it's just a video edit. Oh wow ... Imagine if this had come out back in the day! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn8k Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Oh man. This is definitely going on cart. Tell me the quest for pokey implementation is still ongoing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Isn't that what Commando does? And Bentley Bear as well. pokey background music tia sound fx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragmare Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Don't mean to necro, but I'm working on something that could be relevant to this project. Here, take a listen... if there's interest in completing this w/ POKEY music, I'll cover more from this soundtrack. https://instaud.io/1BKh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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