25 replies to this topic

[Tempest2k]

Hi,

does some have a idea which Lynx games will release in 2012?
I hope Distand Lands xD

[Ninjabba]

I'm curious after the Elite clone for the Lynx. Wasn't there a demo to play of this somewhere?

[ThomH]

Karri's Stardreamer? I think he put out a few demos; I ended up contributing the incomplete 3d engine from an Elite-style game I'd sort of messed about with and as a result have full source code and a build from April 2006. I wasn't aware that it was still ongoing but I drifted away so that's quite possibly my ignorance.

Or maybe there's some other Elite clone afoot?

[Ninjabba]

I was referring to Stardreamer indeed. Couldn't remember the name anymore... I think the project page is down as well. Really hope that game will be finished; it has so much potential. I always wondered how 3D is done on the Lynx... I guess C would be too slow to accomplish that.

In any case, I think there'll be at least 2 games coming in 2012. There was something about an International Karate+ clone.. and I'm working hard on my own project.

[ThomH]

The maths unit can do multiply with accumulate, which gives you the ability to perform matrix compositions and apply matrices to vectors very quickly. It also has a hardware divide which you can use for perspective projections and clipping tasks. Because the maths unit doesn't take control of the bus, you can overlap its work with the workaday 6502 stuff of fetching data for the next multiply or storing the last result. For that reason it's probably smart to do the very low level stuff in assembler but you could easily write the vast majority of your project in C, though you'd possibly want to reserve (as in, permanently) a large chunk of the zero page for the assembly portion.

I wrote what 3d stuff I provided with BLL, I think, but the source bundle I received from Karri was for CC65 so I assume that's exactly the route he was taking. The stuff I provided was incomplete in some significant ways, and I recall Karri finding and fixing at least one bug. I couldn't tell you to what advances he's made with the code since then.

If you want to see something that I really don't think you'd be able to pull off anywhere near as well in C, check out my olden times Mode 7 demo. The code is lost but I still have the cartridge image, and it'd be relatively easy to rewrite. I'm not sure there's much point unless I can think up a sufficiently efficient way of masking out-of-bounds accesses though.

I don't have any Lynx development tools set up at present and I don't think there's a version of HandyBug I can use on my Mac anyway, but I do keep meaning to get back into this stuff.

[karri]

ThomH, on Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:40 AM, said:

The maths unit can do multiply with accumulate, which gives you the ability to perform matrix compositions and apply matrices to vectors very quickly. It also has a hardware divide which you can use for perspective projections and clipping tasks. Because the maths unit doesn't take control of the bus, you can overlap its work with the workaday 6502 stuff of fetching data for the next multiply or storing the last result. For that reason it's probably smart to do the very low level stuff in assembler but you could easily write the vast majority of your project in C, though you'd possibly want to reserve (as in, permanently) a large chunk of the zero page for the assembly portion.

I wrote what 3d stuff I provided with BLL, I think, but the source bundle I received from Karri was for CC65 so I assume that's exactly the route he was taking. The stuff I provided was incomplete in some significant ways, and I recall Karri finding and fixing at least one bug. I couldn't tell you to what advances he's made with the code since then.

If you want to see something that I really don't think you'd be able to pull off anywhere near as well in C, check out my olden times Mode 7 demo. The code is lost but I still have the cartridge image, and it'd be relatively easy to rewrite. I'm not sure there's much point unless I can think up a sufficiently efficient way of masking out-of-bounds accesses though.

I don't have any Lynx development tools set up at present and I don't think there's a version of HandyBug I can use on my Mac anyway, but I do keep meaning to get back into this stuff.

[karri]

In Stardreamer I got stuck as after a while the transformations started to act weird. Planets I had already passed popped out of nowhere and the world did not behave well. I thought of running some tests to find the bugs but it turned out to be too much for me. I still have the sources and an idea for the story line. Carl helped me with the basic game idea. After playing a lot of other games like Wow and Angry birds I have a lot of cool ideas for Stardreamer. It should be multiplayer and it should work on PSPs and PCs as well.
I also like the fact that old school games are coming back. Many campaigns in WoW are actually minigames within a big game.
Wookie has a lot of cool ideas in how to stream out a game from a cart on demand.
Al these things are now influencing Stardreamer. It is still open-ended like Elite. But it has much more depth in the story line. Game sessions are short. There will be flashbacks. Your character will change and evolve during the game.
I had a plan to release a new cart with Stardreamer on it. The working name was Black Pearl for the cart. That schematics is ready and a prototype exists. It has an amazing 8Mb space for game streaming (sound, game code and world data). Who knows. Perhaps this will become reality.

[Atari_afternoon]

I would be happy if it did. If you finished it completely I would be delighted to buy a cart

[Ninjabba]

Wow 8mbs.. that must be the biggest game on the Lynx right. To think I'm stuffing everything in 256kb :s

[ThomH]

karri, on Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:51 PM, said:

In Stardreamer I got stuck as after a while the transformations started to act weird. Planets I had already passed popped out of nowhere and the world did not behave well. I thought of running some tests to find the bugs but it turned out to be too much for me.

Oh, yes, I recall that my actual transform stuff was for 'small' objects in a much larger space — I can imagine that getting planets in there would have been some effort. It's a shame that you can't step debug your original source with the current free/public tools. I did briefly work on exposing debug functionality in one of my emulators via an HTTP RESTful interface, which would mean that an external tool could remotely control the emulator so as to provide that sort of functionality but that's the sort of thing that's very difficult to organise.

karri, on Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:51 PM, said:

I had a plan to release a new cart with Stardreamer on it. The working name was Black Pearl for the cart. That schematics is ready and a prototype exists. It has an amazing 8Mb space for game streaming (sound, game code and world data). Who knows. Perhaps this will become reality.

Definitely put my name down on the list if you build it.

I'm trying to set up suitable development tools to get back into Lynx work, as I continue to think I can do better than Lucien's fantastic work on a first-person dungeon thing as the Wolfenstein ray casting algorithm just isn't that efficient if you think about it. I've also no ideological opposition to doing it as a portrait game, which would obviously be a huge saving from Suzy's point of view, but even failing that I think you could be a lot smarter with texture storage so as to be able to make a much more varied map.

All just plans though. I'll prototype it but I accept that I have possibly the world's worst record on follow-through.

[Tempest2k]

Atari_afternoon, on Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:05 PM, said:

I would be happy if it did. If you finished it completely I would be delighted to buy a cart

me too

[TrekMD]

If your plans pan out and you make the games, let us know!

[EricDeLee]

karri, on Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:51 PM, said:

The working name was Black Pearl for the cart. That schematics is ready and a prototype exists. It has an amazing 8Mb space for game streaming (sound, game code and world data). Who knows. Perhaps this will become reality.

I remember that... it was mentioned in the Adventure game or something

[Tempest2k]

Do some one have a idea which games come out this year?
Would be cool, to know for which game i have to safe my money

[ACrystal2011]

I am hoping for distant lands and dragon saga

[JohnBuell]

While I'd like to see some more completely new games, I'd also be excited if any more playable demos/protos from the 90s turn up. We got SPOILED last year!

[108 Stars]

Matashen will probably release at least one game this year, maybe more. He hoped to release something in 2011, but real life slowed down development.
But there is at least two projects from him in full development (=somewhat playable), so maybe both will make it.

Huge problem imo is always the sound. Sage was so nice to give me some WIP tools for doing Lynx-music and I asked two friends of mine who can work miracles on the Mega Drive/Genesis, but I just couldn´t get them motivated to do any music.Of course in the end matashen can do some himself, but it´s just a different thing to have a really talented composer who also refines his tunes a lot.

As for Stardreamer... I´d love to see that happen. Finally a Lynx game not restricted by small card-size! 8 Mbit was what GameBoy and Game Gear games ended up using occasionally too, so someday the Lynx should definitely have such a big game too!

And Dragon Saga... ,man I am looking forward to this! Exactly my kind of game! If this comes out this year... respect to Ninjabba, doing such a game in such a short time... ALONE.

Edited by 108 Stars, Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:21 AM.

[TailChao]

108 Stars, on Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:16 AM, said:

Huge problem imo is always the sound. Sage was so nice to give me some WIP tools for doing Lynx-music and I asked two friends of mine who can work miracles on the Mega Drive/Genesis, but I just couldn´t get them motivated to do any music.Of course in the end matashen can do some himself, but it´s just a different thing to have a really talented composer who also refines his tunes a lot.

Sage's tracker is really nice, and all the stuff we have for sound right now is already better than Epyx's old SPL. Although I feel bad that I am a little slow with my own tools, haha.
But you can do many of the same things on the Lynx as on the NES without DPCM. Maybe you should try asking some NES guys?

108 Stars, on Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:16 AM, said:

As for Stardreamer... I´d love to see that happen. Finally a Lynx game not restricted by small card-size! 8 Mbit was what GameBoy and Game Gear games ended up using occasionally too, so someday the Lynx should definitely have such a big game too!

Yes, it is very easy to make things up to 16Mbit for Lynx nowadays. Things probably would have gotten much bigger if Atari wasn't so cheap, and the cartslot wasn't so slow to access.

[108 Stars]

TailChao, on Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:36 AM, said:

Sage's tracker is really nice, and all the stuff we have for sound right now is already better than Epyx's old SPL. Although I feel bad that I am a little slow with my own tools, haha.
But you can do many of the same things on the Lynx as on the NES without DPCM. Maybe you should try asking some NES guys?

I would... if I knew any.^^ The thing is, the guys I asked worked on Pier Solar with me,so we were already friends. And I know they are damn talented, we are just releasing the Pier Solar OST album these days and it sells. They could really do tremendous music, but I just could not get them motivated for the Lynx. For the NES scene, there may be talented people there as well, but as a stranger, without knowing them it is kind of akward asking them to do an unpaid job for a system they don´t care about.^^

It was really my relationship with the MD guys that had me hoping they would contribute, but it wasn´t meant to happen.

[TailChao]

108 Stars, on Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:55 AM, said:

For the NES scene, there may be talented people there as well, but as a stranger, without knowing them it is kind of akward asking them to do an unpaid job for a system they don´t care about.^^

I think it is always good to ask, just in case. But yes, if things are kept unpaid it is always difficult to convince people to join in this sort of project.

[sage]

TC, you are soo right.

[108 Stars]

sage, on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:44 AM, said:

TC, you are soo right.

What about? That I should ask someone anyway, or that it is hard to convince people to do unpaid work?

[sage]

getting ppl involved in a project for more than 4 weeks

[Lynxman]

sage, on Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:45 PM, said:

getting ppl involved in a project for more than 4 weeks

100% agree

And it is hard to find someone for beta testing for more than 5 bugfix steps...

[ACrystal2011]

I can beta test anything you want

Just need to get me flash card