51 replies to this topic

[SoulBlazer]

I said it before, and I'll say it again -- the Sony Vita is going to struggle here in the States.

http://games.yahoo.c...-194337927.html

[so_tough!]

how popular is the xbox 360 in Japan?

(sorry the sales number of 360 was LOW! and I dont pay a lot of attention to the newer consoles)

[pocketmego]

First off Tough, that is an awesome profile pic.

Secondly, I hoped for better, but I kind of saw this coming. For a the same price you can get a great touch screen phone or Kindle Fire tablet. Add another hundred bucks and you got a nice lower end android tablet. With games like Shadowgun, the games on Tablets are starting to compete. The Vita is going to struggle and along with the 3Ds, will be the last of its kind.

[Atariboy]

From what I've read, sales have dropped off since the first few days due to hardware shortages, not lack of interest. You can't sell what you don't have to sell.

[onlysublime]

If the Vita doesn't sell in the US or Europe, it's will tank globally. Japanese companies need their products to succeed in the US.

Japan is really a small gaming market. It is an island country of 127 million people. While people call it part of the big 3 markets, that's more legacy and clout than buying power. The Wii has sold 84 million but 50 million was in the US and Europe made the bulk of the rest. In Japan, it was only about 12 million lifetime (and it sold like gangbusters there).

Same thing for the PS3. It's the number 1 full size console in Japan right now. But what does that really mean? that means about 7.5 million consoles sold in Japan for its lifetime. So after 6 years, it's only outsold the horrendously poor-selling 360 by 6 million units in Japan.  So it doesn't really matter how a product does in the Japanese market.  Just how it does in the US, Europe, and the future juggernaut, China.

the 3DS has weathered a poor start and but sales are good now and it's really picking up steam.  I doubt the Vita will survive without going the razors route (sell system at loss, make it up on games). The Vita seems to be a great machine but is it great enough to justify how expensive it is?  it's a locked down platform that requires dedicated memory cards.  You can't even launch some of the games without buying their memory cards.

[so_tough!]

onlysublime, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 8:47 PM, said:

If the Vita doesn't sell in the US or Europe, it's will tank globally. Japanese companies need their products to succeed in the US.

Japan is really a small gaming market. It is an island country of 127 million people. While people call it part of the big 3 markets, that's more legacy and clout than buying power. The Wii has sold 84 million but 50 million was in the US and Europe made the bulk of the rest. In Japan, it was only about 12 million lifetime (and it sold like gangbusters there).

Same thing for the PS3. It's the number 1 full size console in Japan right now. But what does that really mean? that means about 7.5 million consoles sold in Japan for its lifetime. So after 6 years, it's only outsold the horrendously poor-selling 360 by 6 million units in Japan.  So it doesn't really matter how a product does in the Japanese market.  Just how it does in the US, Europe, and the future juggernaut, China.

the 3DS has weathered a poor start and but sales are good now and it's really picking up steam.  I doubt the Vita will survive without going the razors route (sell system at loss, make it up on games). The Vita seems to be a great machine but is it great enough to justify how expensive it is?  it's a locked down platform that requires dedicated memory cards.  You can't even launch some of the games without buying their memory cards.

That's really interesting, I suppose because Japan had the console market covered in the 16 bit and 32 bit era we assume gaming is very big in Japan, but from the numbers you've presented that doesn't seem the case...

(You've answered my question about the 360, what went wrong there?)

[atarian63]

Seems like my tastes are more like Japan.
Japan can't be all wrong, they still have arcades big time!
I do want a vita.

Edited by atarian63, Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:11 PM.

[pce_collector]

it's a locked down platform that requires dedicated memory cards.  You can't even launch some of the games without buying their memory cards.

Those Vita memory card prices are ridiculous. They certainly won't help the sales.

[DemonoidTentacle]

I'm considering getting a PSVita after about a year after launch, ESPECIALLY if it flops. Why? Because it's backwards compatible, and it looks like it would be more suited to my hands than the PSP.

[chris_lynx1989]

Well,from the article I read online right at/just after the 12/16-17 launch in Japan,most Vitas made and offered (200,000) were the 3G model.It only sold 20,000.The other 100,000 available were the Wi-Fi only model,which sold quickly in 2hrs!So,the 3G model seems to be the one that TANKED at launch.   It may be the same in the U.S. too.I only want a Wi-Fi Vita,man!They can stick the Wi-Fi/AT&T 3G Vita!!I see no advantage to screwing around with owning one.What do I need a monthly data plan for?PSP didn't

[wood_jl]

pce_collector, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:45 PM, said:

it's a locked down platform that requires dedicated memory cards.  You can't even launch some of the games without buying their memory cards.

Those Vita memory card prices are ridiculous. They certainly won't help the sales.

Can someone explain this memory card situation?    What kind of cards are they - Memory Stick Pro Duo again?  What's the scheme?  Do you buy the "blank" memory cards and then download the games to them?  I guess there won't be lots of full reviews (and explanations for those like me who are totally unfamiliar with the system) here in the U.S., until it launches here.

[DemonoidTentacle]

wood_jl, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:08 AM, said:

pce_collector, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:45 PM, said:

it's a locked down platform that requires dedicated memory cards.  You can't even launch some of the games without buying their memory cards.

Those Vita memory card prices are ridiculous. They certainly won't help the sales.

Can someone explain this memory card situation? What kind of cards are they - Memory Stick Pro Duo again?  What's the scheme?  Do you buy the "blank" memory cards and then download the games to them?  I guess there won't be lots of full reviews (and explanations for those like me who are totally unfamiliar with the system) here in the U.S., until it launches here.

This is how I first came about the memory card situation:

[chris_lynx1989]

It is a proprietary SD-ish Sony card.They will be blank for DL use AND you'll be able to go to Wal-Mart/GameStop and etc to purchase games on these cards just like PSP did with UMDs when new and used.These cards will have a built-in RAM for saves and updates and DLs for that specific game.

The one thing that will be different is,the games will seem to be only usable on THAT specific registered Vita!No more sharing your UMDs/games with your friends and stuff at school and all like you could with PSP.

[Atariboy]

That isn't correct. Games that you buy at retail will work in any Vita.

It sounds to me as if you're mixing up what you read. You're limited to a single PSN account per system (Even if you purchase multiple memory cards). If you want to switch to a different account, such as a friend's, you'll have to reset the system to factory settings in order to do so. And PSN accounts are limited to two Vita's at a single time.

Physical games that you purchase will work like they always have. There's nothing stopping you from buying used Vita games, letting a friend borrow a game, etc. Retail games aren't tied to a specific system.

Edited by Atariboy, Sat Jan 7, 2012 2:16 AM.

[xg4bx]

$30 for a 4 gig memory card......are they serious?



i'll pick up a vita when theyre clearanced out....

[Mendon]

Atariboy, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 2:12 AM, said:

That isn't correct. Games that you buy at retail will work in any Vita.

Physical games that you purchase will work like they always have. There's nothing stopping you from buying used Vita games, letting a friend borrow a game, etc. Retail games aren't tied to a specific system.

You might be 100% correct. But....

I have two Wii consoles and if I download anything from the Wii store (even a demo) to an SD card in one system and then move that SD card to the other system and try to play it, I can't do that. A message pop's up telling me that its not allowed. Even a demo game won't play on a Wii other than what it was originally downloaded to.

So given that situation, and since the Vita will read and write to a retail game card, it would not surprise me in the least if Sony incorporates a system into each game whereby that card is "locked" to the Vita that first accessed it. View it as a way to combat used game sales.

Again, you might be right about any retail game being playable on any Vita..... but I wouldn't bet on it.


Mendon

[chris_lynx1989]

Yeah,like Mendon said,that is pretty much the way it is supposed to be.It is all a little vague yet coming from Sony though.

Also,as I understand it,you have to "open" and/or "unlock" your Vita via PSN via Wi-Fi or your PS3 after charging/plugging it in.

I'm just wondering what other surprises (crap) they spring on us Feb. 22nd and make me not want a Vita at all.

Edited by chris_lynx1989, Sat Jan 7, 2012 1:12 PM.

[toptenmaterial]

DemonoidTentacle, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 11:49 PM, said:

I'm considering getting a PSVita after about a year after launch, ESPECIALLY if it flops. Why? Because it's backwards compatible, and it looks like it would be more suited to my hands than the PSP.

If it had a UMD drive, then I would call it backwards compatible. But it does not. I wouldn't even consider the 360 to be backwards compatible, as you have to go on their online service in order to boot up your old Xbox discs. I think that, currently, only Nintendo provides true out-of-the-box backwards compatibility.

Now, in regards to getting it if it flops (because it's cheap), I guess that's the silver lining right there. I do remember the $30 Dreamcast days! I should have gotten in on that....

What I certainly would use the Vita for is emulation. If it's predecessor is any indicator of what it can do, then the Vita will have some serious emo chops.

[godslabrat]

toptenmaterial, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:50 PM, said:

DemonoidTentacle, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 11:49 PM, said:

I'm considering getting a PSVita after about a year after launch, ESPECIALLY if it flops. Why? Because it's backwards compatible, and it looks like it would be more suited to my hands than the PSP.

If it had a UMD drive, then I would call it backwards compatible. But it does not. I wouldn't even consider the 360 to be backwards compatible, as you have to go on their online service in order to boot up your old Xbox discs. I think that, currently, only Nintendo provides true out-of-the-box backwards compatibility.

I'm curious to see if it can play UMD rips.  I'd say there will be a Vita Card -> USB adapter within 5 months of release (within 5 days wouldn't shock me), so if I can load PSP games on this thing in addition to using regular retail games, I might be in and it would be "backwards compatible" enough for me.

[onlysublime]

toptenmaterial, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:50 PM, said:

If it had a UMD drive, then I would call it backwards compatible. But it does not. I wouldn't even consider the 360 to be backwards compatible, as you have to go on their online service in order to boot up your old Xbox discs. I think that, currently, only Nintendo provides true out-of-the-box backwards compatibility.

huh?  I'm pretty sure I've played Xbox1 games on the 360 without having it hooked up to the Internet...

And the old PS3 systems also didn't require an Internet connection.

[toptenmaterial]

onlysublime, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 1:36 PM, said:

toptenmaterial, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:50 PM, said:

If it had a UMD drive, then I would call it backwards compatible. But it does not. I wouldn't even consider the 360 to be backwards compatible, as you have to go on their online service in order to boot up your old Xbox discs. I think that, currently, only Nintendo provides true out-of-the-box backwards compatibility.

huh?  I'm pretty sure I've played Xbox1 games on the 360 without having it hooked up to the Internet...

And the old PS3 systems also didn't require an Internet connection.

You may be right. It was the hard drive that I was thinking of; my 360 is the Arcade version and doesn't have one. Since the only storage that I do is game saves, the memory card works fine for me. At any rate, I couldn't get an old game to boot on that console.

So what is this business about the Vita memory cards?

Edited by toptenmaterial, Sat Jan 7, 2012 2:01 PM.

[onmode-ky]

xg4bx, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 3:31 AM, said:

$30 for a 4 gig memory card......are they serious?

You're looking at old (and never official) prices.  The prices from Sony are: $20 for 4 GB, $30 for 8 GB, $60 for 16 GB, $100 for 32 GB.  These match up fairly well with the PSP's Memory Stick Pro Duos; the best prices I ever saw (i.e., recent Black Fridays) were 4 GB for $15 and 8 GB for $25.

Incidentally, to clear up some apparent confusion, the cards with games on them (i.e., the packaged game software that will be sold in stores) and the memory cards are not the same thing.  They don't even go in the same slot on the PSVita.

Mendon, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:45 AM, said:

I have two Wii consoles and if I download anything from the Wii store (even a demo) to an SD card in one system and then move that SD card to the other system and try to play it, I can't do that. A message pop's up telling me that its not allowed. Even a demo game won't play on a Wii other than what it was originally downloaded to.

That is not a good reference.  You're talking about Nintendo's downloaded content model for the Wii and DS, which has always been more restrictive than everyone else's models.  For the PSVita, downloaded content will be restricted to the 2 portable systems which are activated on your PSN user account (and you can deactivate systems and activate others, unlike with Nintendo's old model), but there is no reason, outside of extreme paranoia, to believe packaged-goods content will be restricted to a single device.  Granted, everyone is free to be as paranoid as they wish.

toptenmaterial, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:50 PM, said:

I think that, currently, only Nintendo provides true out-of-the-box backwards compatibility.

Not even that; the new Wiis no longer have backwards compatibility.  Read the blue-highlighted text on the side of the packaging.  The 3DS does play DS cartridges, though.

onmode-ky

[onlysublime]

toptenmaterial, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 2:00 PM, said:

You may be right. It was the hard drive that I was thinking of; my 360 is the Arcade version and doesn't have one. Since the only storage that I do is game saves, the memory card works fine for me. At any rate, I couldn't get an old game to boot on that console.

what's keeping you from getting a hard drive?  you can get a refurbished 120GB drive from Gamestop for $25 right now.  and the drive works with either the older 360 or the newer 360S (of course, for the newer 360S, you have to remove the external casing on the hard drive).

[onlysublime]

onmode-ky, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 2:08 PM, said:

You're looking at old (and never official) prices.  The prices from Sony are: $20 for 4 GB, $30 for 8 GB, $60 for 16 GB, $100 for 32 GB.  These match up fairly well with the PSP's Memory Stick Pro Duos; the best prices I ever saw (i.e., recent Black Fridays) were 4 GB for $15 and 8 GB for $25.

these do not match up well with memory stick pro duo cards.  the running price at Amazon out the door (after tax and shipping) is roughly $15 for a 4GB card.  $26 for 8GB.  $43 for 16 GB (Sandisk but compatible).  Lexar sells the 16 GB for $47.  Lexar sells the 32GB for $60.  and the memory stick pro duo cards can be used in any Sony device whereas the Vita uses custom cards to try to cut down on piracy.

but cost aside, the base Vita unit should not force people to buy memory cards.  some games won't even boot unless you have a memory card.  for the cost of the Vita, it could at least come with 512MB of memory which is extremely cheap at the volume they are producing.

[DemonoidTentacle]

toptenmaterial, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:50 PM, said:

DemonoidTentacle, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 11:49 PM, said:

I'm considering getting a PSVita after about a year after launch, ESPECIALLY if it flops. Why? Because it's backwards compatible, and it looks like it would be more suited to my hands than the PSP.

If it had a UMD drive, then I would call it backwards compatible. But it does not. I wouldn't even consider the 360 to be backwards compatible, as you have to go on their online service in order to boot up your old Xbox discs. I think that, currently, only Nintendo provides true out-of-the-box backwards compatibility.

Damn, did not realise it has no UMD drive. Just assumed that's what the games for it were on. I should really do some PS Vita research.