snicklin Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Thanks Steve, my brother gave me the same impression about it. Many are using similarily cheap linux based media boxes which perform very well. It's an impressive bit of kit nonetheless with a lot of possibilities for $35 It is good for it's price I have to say. You can't expect a full on computing experience, but if you want it to do some tasks for you, it's not a bad bit of kit. I see it as an excellent system for completing tasks which do not matter how long they take. For example, it could look for all your duplicate files on a hard drive and send you a weekly report, or it could transcode some videos - sitting there all day long working at the task. If anyone is interested in an Atari emulator, I'd wait until the Ouya comes out (a powerful Android gaming system the size of a rubiks cube with game controllers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Ouya really isn't the platform for emulation. You either use it like a locked down Sony PS3 or a jailbroken Android device. You can get a JXD 5110 with Joystick for $115.99 at Willgoo http://www.willgoo.com/jxd-s5300-retro-console-capacitive-multigaming-rooted-4g-p-308.html It's a basic Android machine in a PSP form factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Or an mk808 they seem pretty good if you just want Droid functionality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Emkay... again... I love the tiny device... so actually... my questions to the other PIs... is there a working A8 emulator? SNES? MegaDrive (Genesis), Atari ST? PC-Engine? if so... I am not an Linux geek so actually is there a "retro gaming PI image" out there? It's not only that this device hasn't something to do with the Atari 8-Bits. It's more a contrary part. While the 1st A8 was a leading technology it turned into something very "power without the price" thingy, the RPi was already obsolete when it arrived and it's also overpriced. I wonder if schools really was buying such a device in "huge" counts. Possibly it is good to show how a device can be assembled. But every 100$ Mobile phone is better for doing "own Linux" software on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I think the Pi isn't ready for itself. The things that make its existence worthwhile are still happening. Once video/3D acceleration is native the situation should improve greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Ouya really isn't the platform for emulation. You either use it like a locked down Sony PS3 or a jailbroken Android device. I think it remains to be seen how good a platform for emulation Ouya will be, but I don't see a problem with using it as a rooted Android device for emulation. The JXD device you mention is a... rooted Android device with gaming controls. Most people use the JXDs with non-stock launchers and emulators, from what I've seen on forums. I think there's a lot of potential for emulated goodness on Ouya. Back to Pi... Its position in the market isn't like the Atari A8's position in its day. It's closer to the sub-$99 Sinclair ZX-81 coming out years after more expensive and more powerful machines, but enabling those that couldn't afford the computing revolution to join in. (albeit with less capability) Pi isn't well suited to replace your general purpose desktop, nor is it meant to. It's meant to be an inexpensive educational tool. It also happens to fit a few other handy niches... low-end emulation box (runs many early arcade classics fine with the right emulators), low-end XBMC media centre, high-end hobby electronics component, and it's an awesome low-wattage headless server. A general-purpose PC can be used to be used for education, as a mame box, as a media centre, to interface with electronics, and as a headless server, and it will do those much faster. It will also take up more room, it will be more expensive, it will be more noisy, and will cost you more in electricity to run. The PC is a hammer, and the Raspberry Pi Foundation has handed the world a screwdriver. Those that complain that the new-fangled screwdriver is unable to pound nails well are completely missing the point. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 @RevEng Well said 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diskwiz Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 The Pi is a cool device and I can think of many uses for it. As one who has tried to produce a very low cost SIO device from an Arduino, I am impressed with what it gives you for the price. Would I want it in my Atari? Maybe not for my purposes. An Arduino kit is about the same price, and you get so much more with the Pi, but again...different purpose. I was working hard at trying to keep my PC away from my Atari. I don't really want something more powerful than my A8 helping my A8. :) Even now I am building an eprom toolkit with an Arduino and only use the PC to select menu options (for now). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The PC is a hammer, and the Raspberry Pi Foundation has handed the world a screwdriver. Those that complain that the new-fangled screwdriver is unable to pound nails well are completely missing the point. The RPi is a Nail, missed by the Hammer, for the cost of a Screwdriver. Now People put the imagination of a Screwdriver into it. But the most extense still has to be done, making a screwdriver out of the nail. -Building a grip -form the peak of the nail to a screwdriver's shape.... -harden the steel The base material is the cheapest.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Android 4 7" Touchscreen Camera 1.5GHz 4GB and Wifi And surely it has a USB connector.... At a selling point for 65,99€ http://www.lightinthebox.com/de/yeahpad-pillbox7-wifi-hd-3d-android-4-0-tablet-musik_p373973.html So why should a "customer" prefer the RPi? Edited January 13, 2013 by emkay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creature XL Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The RPi is a Nail, missed by the Hammer, for the cost of a Screwdriver. Now People put the imagination of a Screwdriver into it. But the most extense still has to be done, making a screwdriver out of the nail. -Building a grip -form the peak of the nail to a screwdriver's shape.... -harden the steel The base material is the cheapest.... Seems to me as you have missed the point of the analogy used by RevEng. To me it appears he meant the following: A hammer is a tool and nail is a task. A hammer is design to "use" nails as in driving them into a wall. A screwdriver is another tool which is designed to drive screws (other kind of tasks) into a wall. But what you said makes no sense to me at all. It seems like you think of the RPi as an unfinished product. Then you obviously haven't understand it's purpose. It is NOT meant to be an off-the-shelf computer for a normal PC user. It is for technical interested people. Who COULD build a compute rout of it or an extension for the A8 or a prototype for a device they want to sell or or or. And it is is really cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I've increased the stability of my Raspberry Pi by lowering the overclocking to 950mHz. With all the comments about what good the Raspberry Pi is, to me what they've done is started a new culture. A new culture for low powered devices which are cheap. From this concept, lots of other companies have copied and compete on different fronts. Some are really cheap, some have more memory, some have better CPUs, some have touchscreens, some are rooted, some are good as games systems etc etc. I have 2 x Raspberry Pi, 1 x BeagleBone and 1 x MK802. Out of all of those, the 512mb RPi is my favourite. As for emulation, to me, there's two critical points. 1) Can the system use a decent controller (digital joystick). 2) Is the system fast enough? I'm not doing any emulation at the moment (except through my PC), as I can't find a decent system to host it. I own a mini Mame arcade machine and don't use it as it fails on my 2 points above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 A hammer is a tool and nail is a task. You got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The RPi is a Nail, missed by the Hammer, for the cost of a Screwdriver. Now People put the imagination of a Screwdriver into it. But the most extense still has to be done, making a screwdriver out of the nail. "I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail." -Abraham Maslow ... http://www.lightinth...ik_p373973.html So why should a "customer" prefer the RPi? Because your android tablet fills another set of niches. To continue the analogy, its a staple gun. It has those great features you listed, but contrasted to Pi... It's more expensive, even factoring in case, power supply, cables, and SD card for the Pi. It doesn't have a USB host port. It doesn't have a physical ethernet port. It doesn't have a HDMI port It doesn't have a composite video-out port. It doesn't have spare GPIOs on a pin-header If you wish to run Linux on the tablet (assuming it's rootable) it will be through the existing android-provided kernel. (need a module they didn't provide? out of luck). Unlike Pi, the tablet can't run RISC OS, Plan 9, or a dozen different Linux distributions. Different OSes are announced and in development for Pi, like NetBSD, OpenBSD, ChromeOS, and more. The tablet OS is on internal flash instead of SD like the Pi. If something goes wrong on the Pi (OS change) you can take the SD out and fix it. Pi will never brick due to software. It's larger and heavier because of the portable screen. The tablet doesn't have a community focused on tinkering and education efforts. When two things differ, it isn't always a case of "better" or "worse" ; sometimes it's just "different". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 When two things differ, it isn't always a case of "better" or "worse" ; sometimes it's just "different". You can't compare apples raspberries and pears. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Or an mk808 they seem pretty good if you just want Droid functionality Wow - is emkay making his own hardware now? Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Wow - is emkay making his own hardware now? Amazing. Amusing!! As for the MK802, I find it somewhat clunky, the interface is somewhat of a problem. Technically I think that it stands up well, but I gave up trying to use mine. It sits on my desktop unused. My RPI setup (since last night) now consists of a wireless keyboard / mouse, connected into my 32" bedroom TV, sourcing videos from my NAS drive. I'm just trying to set things up to be wife-friendly now. Can anyone point me to a wireless digital joystick (with a USB wireless receiver). It must be digital and cannot be an analogue joystick with a digital mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Wireless digital joystick joystick is tough. Nothing leaps to mind. Wireless digital gamepad is do-able... there's the 8-bitty or wiimote. You'll also need a cheap USB bluetooth receiver to make either of those work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 wow - Emkay pissed on this thread. Wasn't expecting that in the slightest... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiassofT Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Regarding Atari emulation on the Pi: cas wrote that he got atari800 running on his Pi. You have to use the SDL version on the framebuffer console, unaccelerated X11 is too slow. With a few tweaks to the compiler options in the Makefile he got it running at 200% speed. http://www.abbuc.de/...?p=54219#p54219 I've got two Pis sitting here on my bench for half a year now, but haven't done too much except for a few tests. This biggest problem with the Pi IMO is the buggy USB port. It just doesn't work as expected, is slow and crashes a lot (well, a patch came out a few days ago that should solve most of the crashes, but I haven't tried that yet). This is really a big downer, as the ethernet is connected via USB, too. So if you hit some USB bug, your ethernet connection will be down, too - not really great for headless boxes... As murphy never sleeps, I was immediately hit by most of the USB bugs. My Logitech K400 USB keyboard suffers from the famous missing/ghost characters (due to missed USB packets of "key down" or "key up" events). Type h-e-l-l-o and sometimes you get "helloooooooooooooooooo". Not so great... Next thing we tried is hooking up a USB webcam. No-go either, USB isochronous transfers don't work really well, packets are lost too, and you just receive garbage. I didn't bother hooking up a USB DVB receiver or buying some USB audio device (to get digital audio out, analog audio out on the Pi is crap) after that, there are enough posts on the internet reporting failure. The developers are working on these issues, but progress seems to be slow. Not sure if/when these bugs will be finally fixed, but I guess it'll still take some time and maybe we'll eventually get something that works (at this point I don't care too much if it will be slow or fast, just hope we get something stable). But my hopes that the USB port will go up to USB 2.0 Hi-Speed are quite low after reading this statement from Greg K-H: http://permalink.gma...x.kernel.rpi/80 Possibly, it's just a really bad USB controller chip, combined with asad way to hook it up to the processor, combined with with a truly horrible driver make for the fact that USB works at all on this board a total miracle. And you can quote me on that. greg k-h But, don't get me wrong, I really don't think the Pi is crap. Quite some work is still needed on the kernel and software side (accelerated X, for example), then it could become a really nice thing. Having GPIOs and hardware h.264 en/decoding, for example, are absolutely nice features. It just isn't there yet, it's in some (early) beta stage. so long, Hias 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 ... http://www.lightinth...ik_p373973.html So why should a "customer" prefer the RPi? That is a nice little device ! "Customer" will probably buy tablet like that before investing in a Pi. But... Raspberry Pi is not for your ordinary customer... It is for someone who knows that he needs these: Low-level peripherals: 8 × GPIO, UART, I²C bus, SPI bus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akator Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I've got two Pis sitting here on my bench for half a year now, but haven't done too much except for a few tests. Ditto. Originally I had a variety of possible project ideas: custom mini-emulation cabinets, webcam streaming, Atari 2600 emulation in a cart shell, internet radio player, etc.. Granted, I've only played with the RPi for a few days here and there, but in its current state the device and software are too far away for my needs and above my skills to make the device useful. I'm not saying anything against the RPi, either, only that I'm waiting to see how things develop over time. Even if I never find a use for them, I wasted $80 on a cool idea. I wish all of my investments in failed projects were only $80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griz Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I have been doing all sorts of things with RPis. I waited until recently to get into the RPi because I felt the timing, until now, was poor. First you couldn't get one due to a lack of availability, then there were bugs and later revisions. But it's now easy to get one and they have certainly evolved. Next thing we tried is hooking up a USB webcam. No-go either, USB isochronous transfers don't work really well, packets are lost too, and you just receive garbage. I didn't bother hooking up a USB DVB receiver or buying some USB audio device (to get digital audio out, analog audio out on the Pi is crap) after that, there are enough posts on the internet reporting failure. I recently had a webcam (hp) and a wireless n dongle (tp-link) working simulatensouly from a Pi (no usb hub), with no issues that I could detect. I am using newer model B rev 2 512M Pis though. We need to stop thinking about Pis as computer replacements, or microcontroller replacements. When you do, I think their size, price and power make Pis remarkably worthwhile in numerous applications. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 NooOOo! They are be computer replacements! Just need to bide our time until X is accelerated. In the zombie apocalypse power will go out. The Raspberri Pi can be battery powered pretty easily. I've got one or two mini projectors that can also be battery powered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 That is a nice little device ! "Customer" will probably buy tablet like that before investing in a Pi. But... Raspberry Pi is not for your ordinary customer... It is for someone who knows that he needs these: Low-level peripherals: 8 × GPIO, UART, I²C bus, SPI bus The RPI is at least no Atari 8 bit. So why is this thread still here in the forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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