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512K Cartridge Status


Ksarul

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  • 3 weeks later...

I got the PLCC 20 pin to DIP adapter in yesterday. Now, I actually have two "nice" adapters.. PLCC32 and 20 pin ones! (Wish I could find a nice set of the whole range of sizes).

 

Anyway, as soon as I get some time this week, I'll start reprogramming the GALs with Matthew's code and try them out with Tursi's Bank Test EPROM to see where we get...

Edited by acadiel
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  • 1 month later...

Not from the ROM side; I haven't had a chance to try and reprogram the GALs yet.

 

We have two options for ROM right now - the GALs (currently not working) and a 74LS378 chip (verified working with a mega 8K multicart thanks to Tursi.)

 

I'll let Tursi chime in on the AVR - I believe he was just re-pinning the outputs to go with the new outputs on the board.

 

All of us have been working on documentation... gotta have something written down. <grin>

Edited by acadiel
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  • 7 months later...
  • 7 months later...

Since questions were popping up, I realized it has been a while, so I figured I'd update on my part here, if only to show that given enough time, the prodding works. (sorry, I started this email like 4 hour ago ;) )

 

I posted some YouTube videos a while back to show the GROM test program running:

 

-Under emulation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns_sTZSetLg

 

-and the real thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvI05cSEaB4

 

Final (probably) specs for this GROM simulator:

 

-Dynamically mappable - any block or device can be mapped to any location in GROM space

-Supports the 40k of GROM cartridge space and up to 16 GROM bases, bases can also be disabled (without bases, you get 5 map slots, with them you get 80)

-120k GROM, mapped in 8k blocks, rewritable in-system a block at a time

-12k (G)RAM, mapped as one 8k and one 4k block

-4k (G)EEPROM, byte-writable (some is reserved for memory mapper configuration)

-4x 5v analog inputs (8-bit resolution)

-4x 5v GPIO, configurable for input (with optional pull-up resistor) or output (push/pull or open collector)

-high speed TTL UART with separate input and output buffers (256 bytes each, IIRC, tested at 300 baud and 115,200 baud)

-high speed independent 16-bit timer

-write protect (for making cartridges you don't want people to erase)

-built-in recovery mechanism (to ensure you can load the programming utility even though this device is filling the cartridge slot - includes Easy Bug and an EA#5 loader)

 

All functions are available at once, as well, so long as you enable GROM bases (with 80 slots, there are more addresses available than features available, so you can map everything and leave it set). A manual has been written to show how to write code to use any of the above (but once the mapping is set, it is simply reading or writing GROM space). In addition, the above is all finished and working.

 

This GROM is designed to sit side-by-side with the 512k bank-switched ROM, as well, so this cartridge will be capable of heavy things! Even if you don't use all the extra features, the GROM should at least be handy. the code is designed to be adaptable, as well, so it should in theory be easy to trim down the functions for use on smaller AVRs if you wanted to make a custom GROM-only cart.

Edited by Tursi
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I won't claim I understand all the technical details, but it sounds absolutely amazing. I can't wait to get one...

 

Is it also intended for distributing specific games and software, or would developers rather release their software as a file that people can upload to their carts?

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Yeah, it's more intended for people who would /make/ carts - it's not a "flash cartridge" in the concept that other systems have created. The ROM side is not in-system programmable, as with previous boards.

 

There's no guarantee anyone will ever use the additional features of the GROM AVR chip, but they cost so little to add it was hard to resist. ;)

 

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What is this for, if you need a hardware-programmer to change anything?

 

-120k GROM, mapped in 8k blocks, rewritable in-system a block at a time

 

It write-protects the GROM. It also write-protects the memory mapper in the EEPROM.

 

Only the CPU ROM chip needs to be externally programmable. The GROM chip is fully system programmable.

 

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Tursi is there any chance to put GROM simulator in GNU usb module(http://www.floka.com/grom_gnusb.html)? That module looks promise. If your simulator works on that module is there anybody who know how to make such module (maybe you Tursi or Matthew or Ksarul?)?

Have you think about module with ram on it? In this case you would need battery (like mini memory).

Edited by Manic1975
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And here is the 512K Bank Switched part working.

 

The board in the video is the board that we would ship if we made some. It uses a 49F040 EPROM (512K), 74LS378 (bank switches 6 lines), and the ATMega with Tursi's GROM emulation.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IL5MKk7UbA

 

I just need to verify operation of the ROM with Tursi's program that checks all ATMega functionality while a fully filled 512K ROM is in the board. (The program ends up erasing itself from the ATMega when done.) I have no qualms about it working, it's probably just a formality.

 

I believe the documentation (between Ksarul, myself, and Tursi) is pretty much complete. Tursi is currently working (I think) on a loader so that you can load GROM banks onto the board easily. I believe that it would probably work something like a GRAM kracker. However, you would be responsible for burning the ROM part yourself (i.e. like discussed previously, the ROM part is permanent.)

 

So, yes, theoretically RXB (ROM + GROM), and unreleased carts (GROM) like Plant Genetics, Pinnochio, Von Drake, and Peter Pan (and rare ones such as Demo and Diagnostic) can very easily be used on this board.

 

I'd say we name it the TIduino, but we might get slapped by the Arduino project as well as TI. LOL.

Edited by acadiel
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Wow. I think I peed in my pants a little.

 

Yep. Just checked.

 

Definately wet myself. I hate it when that happens. :)

 

Any idea when we will have costs? Would you be willing to post the gerber files? When I got the TurboForth boards made (they are just Jon Guidrys design 100% intact with his name etc still on there) I got the boards made in China. The quality was okay - a couple of the boards were dodgy but I weeded them out. I got 150 boards made and they were cheap. It's an English company, and the boards are made to international standards, it's just that they moved their manufacturing to China.

 

I'll see if I can find the web address for the company and we could get the boards priced.

 

I'd be interested in multiple quantities of these; depending on the cost of the MCU. Is it expensive?

 

Tursi, does the GROM bus run at full speed (I mean, does that fact that the MCU is driving the bus on GROM cycles slow anything down (as far as the TI concerned)?)

 

Cheers

 

M

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Any idea when we will have costs? Would you be willing to post the gerber files? When I got the TurboForth boards made (they are just Jon Guidrys design 100% intact with his name etc still on there) I got the boards made in China. The quality was okay - a couple of the boards were dodgy but I weeded them out. I got 150 boards made and they were cheap. It's an English company, and the boards are made to international standards, it's just that they moved their manufacturing to China.

 

The last board houses we used were ExpressPCB and PCBExpress (through ACC Electronix, who assembled the last batch for both for Matthew and myself.)

 

I'd be leery about going through another provider if we can; the above two have done extremely good work for us. 100 boards (a small amount) was $490 back in 2010 from ExpressPCB. Plus the costs of the components, sockets, etc. I'd have to look what ACC Electronix charged me, but I thought it was pretty competitive for an assembled product; trying to pick all the products, etc, was not worth it when they could assemble it for $1 or $2. I think it was around $10/ea assembled for 250 if I'm not mistaken, plus the cost of the 74LS379 and the cost for the cartridge shells (and postage), so I believe I pretty much almost broke even on them.

 

So, if we want to ballpark on $10-$12/ea (cost, not the 74LS378, nor the AtMega 1284, nor cart shells) assembled, or $15 with everything but the AtMega and shells, I think that's probably a more reasonable effort.

 

Ksarul ordered some production cart boards like the one I have above; if it works, he can get the Gerber files for $60 and we can spread the cost for that among the cart boards.

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Tursi is there any chance to put GROM simulator in GNU usb module(http://www.floka.com/grom_gnusb.html)? That module looks promise. If your simulator works on that module is there anybody who know how to make such module (maybe you Tursi or Matthew or Ksarul?)?

 

He's already using my code in that project. ;)

 

If you mean going the other way, no, I don't wish to add the USB stack to the GROM chip, we're already using all the pins for other functions.

 

Have you think about module with ram on it? In this case you would need battery (like mini memory).

 

Everyone has. :) This cart has 12k of RAM on it. BUT, it's not CPU RAM, so you can't run assembly code from it. It is fast enough to use for temporary buffers, though, I've done that in my MPD. For persistent data it also has 4k of EEPROM. :)

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I'd say we name it the TIduino, but we might get slapped by the Arduino project as well as TI. LOL.

 

Also, Arduino has much more to do with the software than the AVR, and I don't have any of it in there, so it's a bit misleading. :)

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I'd be interested in multiple quantities of these; depending on the cost of the MCU. Is it expensive?

 

It's an ATMega1284, Mouser is currently selling them for $8 each in single quantity, $4.55 each in quantities of 100. So they aren't too bad, but most likely the priciest chip on the board!

 

Tursi, does the GROM bus run at full speed (I mean, does that fact that the MCU is driving the bus on GROM cycles slow anything down (as far as the TI concerned)?)

 

The AVR runs GROM cycles 3-4 times faster than the real GROM in the console, so it runs full speed. You don't get a speed boost because the GROMs in the console will continue to run the bus at their slow speed (even when they are not the ones being read).

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I just checked. 100 boards cost about $570; 250 boards cost about $1,050; and 500 boards would be just shy of $1,800. Somewhat more expensive than the last runs we did, but not significantly so. On any quantity less than 100, the largest part of the cost is setup, as that is a fixed fee of $245. Everything else is variable, based on the quantity ordered.

 

I think I still have about 20 bare boards from the test batch I did.

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