cost of atari shells

[+Nathan Strum]

He's willing to make more and\or sell the mold last I heard BUT he wants a minimum order of like 1000 units.

That's the last I'd heard as well, but that was quite some time ago.

 

1000 could go pretty fast, especially if several new games get released at the same time, or if Albert holds a Holiday Sale again. But when Albert had those shells before, they were an optional extra at an additional price, so it took some time to work through his stock. I think most people just opted for recycled shells.

 

The trick is, and always has been, the up-front cost of getting that many shells made, and the risk of them taking months (or years) to recoup the costs from. Especially if you get them made in different colors (which admittedly, is pretty cool). Some colors just wouldn't sell as well.

 

I think the trick would be to have the bulk made in black, build the cost into the price of the homebrews, and not offer recycled shells any longer. Then charge a premium for colored shells. But again, who gets to pay for this all up-front? Even if the shells only cost $5 each to have made by VGWIZ and shipped to Albert (and that's a guess - I can't back that up), that's still a $5000 price tag, before a single cart is sold.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Nathan Strum

[Thomas Jentzsch]

...that's still a $5000 price tag, before a single cart is sold.

Similar amounts were required and possible for Boulder Dash, so it seems not unrealistic.

[Matthew]

CNC is not used, as far as I know, to produce plastic parts for production, it is however used extensively for metal parts.

 

I have been a CNC machinist for +10yrs and have machined many plastic components for medical, military and aerospace uses. Small production runs are often done this way.

 

Nylon or another wear resistant material would be suitable.

 

 

If someone is super keen they could go here and request an online quote. It would be best to create a CAD model first.

 

 

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/rfq_request_quote/

[solidcorp]

How much do you think a machined cartridge case would cost?

 

A standard Atari cartridge (Star Raders) is 3.23" x 3.83" in two halves, one with features 0.7" thick and the other 0.4" thick. When I designed and CNC'd my case, I was able to confine the halves to 1/2" thick and each part needed machining from the top and bottom side. The cartridge must be in at least three pieces (mine used four) if it is to be three axis machined because of the slot pins to open the door on the console, four or five axis machining can avoid this. Original injection molded Atari cartridges also have overhanging PCB clips molded into the case that can be avioded in a redesign of the cartridge.

 

Each cartridge uses over 12 cubic inches of material 3.23" x 3.83" x 0.5" x 2 halves. I'm pricing 1/2" thich sheet nylon at $63-$91 a square foot - this is low quantity, online retail pricing so I'm sure you can get it for much less (and if anyone has a good plastics source, I would really appreciate hearing about it), but ignoring machining losses like material lost to fitting parts into the bulk material shape, fixturing, and bit width you could get around 12 halves out of a 12" x 12" x 0.5" sheet if I am not mistaken; enough to make six cartridges. That price seems pretty high. There are cheaper durable materials like HDPE (used in white plastic cutting board, $20/sf) or Polycarbonate (Lexan, $21.25/sf) but even if you could get as low as $12/sf cartridges would cost $2 apiece in raw material alone.

 

I am a hobbiest machinist, not a professional by a long shot, so if I have my facts wrong or if there are cheaper ways you can share to do things like this I would be very grateful to hear about them.

 

Here are the dimensions I measured with .001" calipers, I hope they might help anyone who may want to reproduce or design their own cart (I suggest you double check them before sending anything off to production).

 

The Star Raiders PCB dimensions are in the lower right corner.

 

 

D. Scott Williamson

[+Mitch]

I know pixels past had prototyped some new 2600/7800 cart shells quite a few years ago. I think the cost of producing it is what killed the project.

 

Mitch

[esplonky]

you could get a styrofoam block, carve it a little bit smaller than atari's demensions, then wrap the foam in fiberglass and rosin so it makes a shell, and then dremel out the foam, and then polish, and slap a label on it and walla!

[+Nathan Strum]

Or voilà, even.

[Syntaxerror999]

you could get a styrofoam block, carve it a little bit smaller than atari's demensions, then wrap the foam in fiberglass and rosin so it makes a shell, and then dremel out the foam, and then polish, and slap a label on it and walla!

 

How about just make the shell out of unwrapped styrofoam like the first "And1" VHS tapes? (no joke, they actualy sold VHS tapes that were nothing more than a block of foam and some plastic rollers for the tape to move on. Ghetto fabulous!)

[Syntaxerror999]

How much do you think a machined cartridge case would cost?

 

A standard Atari cartridge (Star Raders) is 3.23" x 3.83" in two halves, one with features 0.7" thick and the other 0.4" thick. When I designed and CNC'd my case, I was able to confine the halves to 1/2" thick and each part needed machining from the top and bottom side. The cartridge must be in at least three pieces (mine used four) if it is to be three axis machined because of the slot pins to open the door on the console, four or five axis machining can avoid this. Original injection molded Atari cartridges also have overhanging PCB clips molded into the case that can be avioded in a redesign of the cartridge.

 

Each cartridge uses over 12 cubic inches of material 3.23" x 3.83" x 0.5" x 2 halves. I'm pricing 1/2" thich sheet nylon at $63-$91 a square foot - this is low quantity, online retail pricing so I'm sure you can get it for much less (and if anyone has a good plastics source, I would really appreciate hearing about it), but ignoring machining losses like material lost to fitting parts into the bulk material shape, fixturing, and bit width you could get around 12 halves out of a 12" x 12" x 0.5" sheet if I am not mistaken; enough to make six cartridges. That price seems pretty high. There are cheaper durable materials like HDPE (used in white plastic cutting board, $20/sf) or Polycarbonate (Lexan, $21.25/sf) but even if you could get as low as $12/sf cartridges would cost $2 apiece in raw material alone.

 

I am a hobbiest machinist, not a professional by a long shot, so if I have my facts wrong or if there are cheaper ways you can share to do things like this I would be very grateful to hear about them.

 

Here are the dimensions I measured with .001" calipers, I hope they might help anyone who may want to reproduce or design their own cart (I suggest you double check them before sending anything off to production).

 

The Star Raiders PCB dimensions are in the lower right corner.

 

 

D. Scott Williamson

 

Better cover that window on your chip there bro!

[Syntaxerror999]

Let's face it: it's not much of a sacrifice to 'kill' yet another PacMan or ET to make a homebrew.

 

Don't think of it as the death of a cart, but more of a reincarnation into a better life...

 

I got a dead Pheonix cart Albert can have... how ironic.

[jaybird3rd]

Hopefully a reasonably-priced source for new shells comes about, but in the meantime, I wouldn't worry about recycling shells from common donors. There were so many millions of 2600 cartridges made, and so many of them are still floating around (and being discovered in warehouses all over the world), that the relatively small quantities that are being consumed by homebrew production won't make much of a dent.

[trent]

There are handful of threads like this and they all seem to end the same way. Looks like VGWIZ a.k.a. OldGuru hasn't been on since 2010 - anyone know how to contact him? Looking at the wayback machine, the cost of a run of 1000 would be getting in the $2-3 dollar range per unit (http://web.archive.o...08f9b0d93a7fd7e). That is not a terribly expensive proposition.

[esplonky]

Just Found this on youtube: If someone could make a mould that could be used for this stuff, that would work pretty well!

 

[Rev]

edible atari carts!

[littleman jack]

Was VGWiz the guy that made the blue shells for Seawolf?

Those were really nice.

[opcode]

There is a company in Brazil that still makes Atari cartridge cases. They are called Patola.

[Shawn]

I know someone who looked into getting shells made by a reputable factory in China and it was $1,000 minimum to a max of $1,400 to get the molds made but after that it was working out to only 30 cents per shell. I didn't hear any more after that as the $2k initinal cost to get the molds made and a single batch of shells was just out of his league.

[trent]

There is a company in Brazil that still makes Atari cartridge cases. They are called Patola.

 

I saw some old posts on the Stella mailing list about Patola, and researched it a bit. At the Patola site (www.patola.com.br) there are lots of custom plastic bits and bobs but no Atari carts. This is as close as I get to finding something.

[+batari]

I have considered buying a 3D printer just to experiment with this stuff. Would also find other uses for one I'm sure.

Like so?

 

Wow, does that look cool! Not only could you make your own carts, you could also make custom consoles and joysticks...

It's official, I bought a 3D printer and it came a few days ago. Not the Makerbot but another one that's more portable and seems to have better prnting resolution (necessary, otherwise parts come out looking too layered and rough.)

 

It's already clear that a 3D printer is unsuitable for mass production (too slow) but it may be fine for prototyping, one-offs or very small runs.

 

If I'm able to produce a new shell, I'll post pics of it. So far I just have white plastic but more is on the way.

[CPUWIZ]

First thing you should do, is print a blue t-handle shell, to pay for the printer. LOL

[Pioneer4x4]

It's official, I bought a 3D printer and it came a few days ago. Not the Makerbot but another one that's more portable and seems to have better prnting resolution (necessary, otherwise parts come out looking too layered and rough.)

 

It's already clear that a 3D printer is unsuitable for mass production (too slow) but it may be fine for prototyping, one-offs or very small runs.

 

If I'm able to produce a new shell, I'll post pics of it. So far I just have white plastic but more is on the way.

Please keep us up to date on this, or PM me. I am very interested in those for many reasons, not just video game stuff. Plus, we need pictures!!!

 

You say it is too slow, about how long for something like an Atari Cart case, just a rough guess.

[+batari]

First thing you should do, is print a blue t-handle shell, to pay for the printer. LOL

 

But a good idea, actually... A small run of repros would certainly help!

 

I'd make them different enough (perhaps imprint "reproduction" on the shell itself.)

 

Now who's willing to lend me their Air Raid so I can take measurements?

It's official, I bought a 3D printer and it came a few days ago. Not the Makerbot but another one that's more portable and seems to have better prnting resolution (necessary, otherwise parts come out looking too layered and rough.)

 

It's already clear that a 3D printer is unsuitable for mass production (too slow) but it may be fine for prototyping, one-offs or very small runs.

 

If I'm able to produce a new shell, I'll post pics of it. So far I just have white plastic but more is on the way.

Please keep us up to date on this, or PM me. I am very interested in those for many reasons, not just video game stuff. Plus, we need pictures!!!

 

You say it is too slow, about how long for something like an Atari Cart case, just a rough guess.

A few minutes on the fast, low-resolution setting but perhaps a half-hour per shell on the slow, fine setting. Then each shell requires some fiddling to remove temporary support material. I believe you can print several shells at once, though - basically as many as will fit on the printing platform, so you could leave it running while doing other things.

 

So far I'm rethinking several things - going to put two screws on it near where it clamps onto the board and put the screws on the back instead of under the label. And, of course, forget the dust door and replace with the guides on the shell itself. I haven't figured out how to make a textured surface in the CAD package yet so the first prototypes will probably be smooth.

 

Will probably be a few days or a week or so before I have something.

[esplonky]

So I made Casein, and it is the most crumbly, least malleable crap ive ever seen.

[Pioneer4x4]

]A few minutes on the fast, low-resolution setting but perhaps a half-hour per shell on the slow, fine setting. Then each shell requires some fiddling to remove temporary support material. I believe you can print several shells at once, though - basically as many as will fit on the printing platform, so you could leave it running while doing other things.

 

So far I'm rethinking several things - going to put two screws on it near where it clamps onto the board and put the screws on the back instead of under the label. And, of course, forget the dust door and replace with the guides on the shell itself. I haven't figured out how to make a textured surface in the CAD package yet so the first prototypes will probably be smooth.

 

Will probably be a few days or a week or so before I have something.

What is the "resolution", how smooth or precise can it get? I always assumed that it would need sanding or something at places. Can you even do the recessed area for the label? Screws on the back is a great idea, but I would also make it with screws under the label. Then leave it up to the user on which they want to use. Again, I assume that Homebrew/special releases would want the screw under the label as a slight discouragement to removing the label to get it apart.

In any case, it sounds very promising!

[+batari]

]A few minutes on the fast, low-resolution setting but perhaps a half-hour per shell on the slow, fine setting. Then each shell requires some fiddling to remove temporary support material. I believe you can print several shells at once, though - basically as many as will fit on the printing platform, so you could leave it running while doing other things.

 

So far I'm rethinking several things - going to put two screws on it near where it clamps onto the board and put the screws on the back instead of under the label. And, of course, forget the dust door and replace with the guides on the shell itself. I haven't figured out how to make a textured surface in the CAD package yet so the first prototypes will probably be smooth.

 

Will probably be a few days or a week or so before I have something.

What is the "resolution", how smooth or precise can it get? I always assumed that it would need sanding or something at places. Can you even do the recessed area for the label? Screws on the back is a great idea, but I would also make it with screws under the label. Then leave it up to the user on which they want to use. Again, I assume that Homebrew/special releases would want the screw under the label as a slight discouragement to removing the label to get it apart.

In any case, it sounds very promising!

The resolution is 0.2mm and the recessed area is bigger than that, so it should work. I have drawn up the CAD model so I just need to print it now.

 

Screws under labels has always been a pet peeve of mine as it discouraged our natural curiosity to see what's inside as we didn't want to void warranties - though now it would be because we simply don't want to damage the label.

 

If the goal is to discourage tinkering, a dab of epoxy would do the trick

 

I wonder what others think of not having screws under the label?