91 replies to this topic

[Albert]

I'm working with someone to make new cart shells, in fact, let me ping him about that today.

As for screws under the labels, I don't really mind them--what I do mind are larger holes such as what Atari did with their later 2600/7800 cartridge shell (when they removed the dust cover mechanism).  It's quite easy to indent the label over those "holes, as they are in the upper right and left corners of the main label and fairly large.  

..Al

[batari]

Yes, I hate those. The design I'm working on has the fingers on the bottom half of the shell. The left is the top and the right is the bottom. For injection molds, there may need to be a hole in the back of the shell under the fingers but I think that's a small price to pay.

The two screws are intended to better hold the board (so it would work better for Harmony or other designs with larger boards.) I am also hoping that the two screws will allow me to do away with the snaps, or at least some of them, so they are not included in this design.

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[Curt Vendel]

Fred - the problem you're going to have is with your mold release, the way the tabs are situated, that will be a problem... this was why the 7800 carts had the holes in them for the mold to go through for the cart door release tabs....

[batari]

That's what I thought - not a problem to change. I'll just put slots on the back of the shell. I don't know why Atari didn't do it that way.

[Curt Vendel]

They probably did it that way so the label would cover over the holes and you would'nt see that at all, but of course as we all know, that eventually ruins the labels.

[Pioneer4x4]

batari, on Mon Apr 9, 2012 9:50 AM, said:

The resolution is 0.2mm and the recessed area is bigger than that, so it should work. I have drawn up the CAD model so I just need to print it now.

Screws under labels has always been a pet peeve of mine as it discouraged our natural curiosity to see what's inside as we didn't want to void warranties - though now it would be because we simply don't want to damage the label.

If the goal is to discourage tinkering, a dab of epoxy would do the trick

I wonder what others think of not having screws under the label?

I would hate to make a cart that you couldn't open up to repair, and to me the labels could be the "authenticity" part of a cart.  I have considered ways of making unique or personalized labels for kicks.  Not that I don't want anything I make being shared, but I don't want some other schmuck making money off of it without approval.
.2mm seems small enough, what is that like .008"  might not be enough to do texture, but the recess should be ok.
is the horizontal resolution (X&Y)_ the same as thickness (Z)?

[bohoki]

why doesnt someone just make a cart with a window and have a ziff socket on the board and just swap chips that way you only need one

[Thomas Jentzsch]

bohoki, on Mon Apr 9, 2012 2:40 PM, said:

why doesnt someone just make a cart with a window and have a ziff socket on the board and just swap chips that way you only need one

Why not using the Harmony cart for that?

[Nathan Strum]

I like the idea of screws on the bottom. To further prevent label damage from re-opening carts, could you make the part of the cart where the end label goes key into the bottom half, so the seam goes around the label?

[Shawn Sr.]

batari, on Mon Apr 9, 2012 1:46 PM, said:

That's what I thought - not a problem to change. I'll just put slots on the back of the shell. I don't know why Atari didn't do it that way.

Or just have it 3 peices. Front, back, and spacer with the "fingers" on it.

[Matthew]

Curt Vendel, on Mon Apr 9, 2012 12:26 PM, said:

Fred - the problem you're going to have is with your mold release, the way the tabs are situated, that will be a problem... this was why the 7800 carts had the holes in them for the mold to go through for the cart door release tabs....

Side core?

[CrazyChris]

Commodore 64 has new cartridge shells.

http://www.jschoenfe.../cartcase_e.htm

Edited by CrazyChris, Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:49 AM.

[solidcorp]

I'd prefer not to have any label over the screws.  Whether that's a function of the label shape or the cartridge design makes no difference to me.

FWIW, The Star Castle cartridge I designed could not have snaps because I couldn't machine them with my 3 axis CNC machine, so I used 2 machine screws and two nuts, both countersunk.  The screws also secured the acrylic fingers that open the Atari 2600 cartridge door.  I made sure the nuts were behind the label in snug hex shaped recesses so that I could open and close the cart if I wanted.  If you use plastic screws, you could simply screw from the back.

[batari]

Looks good - and I like the idea about attaching the fingers to the screws, but not sure if I'll change my design (I think all it needs is holes beneath the fingers on the back of the shell for it to work as an injection mold, which I don't think is a big deal, as it's not under the label like later Atari shells.)

Mine went through many revisions and finally this one works well enough. It may look a little rough because it was printed on the coarsest setting the printer will do (for speed) and I haven't cleaned up all of the support material completely. Also, I haven't yet printed any on the finer settings. As of now, I only have boring white ABS right now, but better colors are on the way and I will post something when I have time to play with them.

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[esplonky]

now how about someone etching boards?

[Pioneer4x4]

batari, on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:40 PM, said:

Looks good - and I like the idea about attaching the fingers to the screws, but not sure if I'll change my design (I think all it needs is holes beneath the fingers on the back of the shell for it to work as an injection mold, which I don't think is a big deal, as it's not under the label like later Atari shells.)

Mine went through many revisions and finally this one works well enough. It may look a little rough because it was printed on the coarsest setting the printer will do (for speed) and I haven't cleaned up all of the support material completely. Also, I haven't yet printed any on the finer settings. As of now, I only have boring white ABS right now, but better colors are on the way and I will post something when I have time to play with them.

That looks very promising!  How long did it take?
Also, have you tested or designed it around the new circuit boards that CPUWIZ has?
I am fascinated by all the possibilities.  Having personalized logos embedded in the cart casing, serial numbers, even having stuff like that embedded in it internally.

[toymailman]

I'll put in my 2-cents for an ideal new cart shell.  My suggestions come from experience opening up many shells (maybe hundreds?) to give the contacts a good cleaning when needed.  It would be nice if...

1) The cart shell should be easy to open up without damaging either label.

2) Avoid the little plastic snap pieces (break too easily).

3) Incorporate a dust cover.  I really like the original 7800 springy dust cover.  I have found that the carts with dust covers are much better protected, less prone to failure over time, and do not need to be cleaned as often.

4) More added benefits of the 7800 dust cover is that it avoids the need for holes in the outer shell AND you never have to worry about the prongs (or fingers) breaking off.

[solidcorp]

batari, on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:40 PM, said:

Looks good - and I like the idea about attaching the fingers to the screws, but not sure if I'll change my design (I think all it needs is holes beneath the fingers on the back of the shell for it to work as an injection mold, which I don't think is a big deal, as it's not under the label like later Atari shells.)

Mine went through many revisions and finally this one works well enough. It may look a little rough because it was printed on the coarsest setting the printer will do (for speed) and I haven't cleaned up all of the support material completely. Also, I haven't yet printed any on the finer settings. As of now, I only have boring white ABS right now, but better colors are on the way and I will post something when I have time to play with them.

That looks awesome - simple and effective.

In white it looks like an Apple product, and they are masters of aesthetic design.

[Syntaxerror999]

batari, on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:40 PM, said:

That looks awesome - simple and effective.

In white it looks like an Apple product, and they are masters of aesthetic design.

I belive the exact shade of white apple uses is called "arrogant snob"

[Pioneer4x4]

solidcorp, on Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:46 PM, said:

In white it looks like an Apple product, and they are masters of aesthetic design.

All the more reason to make it black...     Actually I like their aluminum/chrome stuff.

[BladeJunker]

I can't recommend gutting old carts not just because of retro preservation matters but also that plastic ages where 30 years makes for a brittle shell even in the best case scenarios. I definitely think there is room to improve the internal structure of the 2600 cart since it does have flaws, the basic shell shape is functional but I wouldn't mind having that indention grip that some carts had on the opposite side of the label at the top with some bumps for grip. I don't understand why you'd even bother adding security features in this day and age, just put screws on the bottom and let people look inside if they want to, they paid for it so let them do as they will.
On the issue of the plastic mold, small runs have the benefit of low capital needs but to the big picture a lot of money gets wasted in a stop go stop production schedules especially with multiple groups making different shells. Better to get everybody remotely interested in shell production together to pool all the money and just produce as many as possible into a stockpile so the cost per unit is practically nothing. Obviously this is a big ship concept where the cart design would have to be perfected to a point where the vast majority would like it and use it for years to come.
I admit stockpiling equals storage costs unless someone had enough space to hold them for free but it would have to be located in a convenient place for ideal shipping distances. Beyond that even the cheapest storage units would still equal a yearly cost that would have to be factored in even if the people managing all this work for free.
Well that's my spiel on the matter.

I did the shells I'm already seeing, neat stuff.

[Pioneer4x4]

On a pure cost basis, I know that I personally will never beat using old games.  But when you add in a new board and the ICs and label, the cost of the shell is minimal, so another $1 wouldn't really matter to me if they were as nice as original 1970s Atari shells.
Personally my favorites are Activision and how they stack.  But I do like the dual labels on Atari carts.  I am not worried about durability of old shells, they lasted this long with zero breakage or wear.  I mean of the hundreds I have, ZERO have broken shells, and some are what, 35 years old!

[trent]

Bump. Anyone making any progress on this?

[bombidragon]

Exactly What I was thinking! Oh wait its now a historic monument (felony)

revolutionika, on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:37 PM, said:

Maybe one day someone will dig up all the ET carts, then you guys could use them for homebrews!  They would be perfectly preserved.

[Wookie]

So there is a startup trying to make desktop injection molding machines:
http://www.makeyouro...ff.org/updates/
They did a kickstarter about 6 months ago that was unsuccessful. I think the target price for their machine is $1000 which is about the same cost as a 3D printer these days.  

Have people in the community with these machines making cart shells for us would be a valuable resource. Maybe we can convince them to kickstarter again so that we can spread the word and get it funded.

-wookie

Edited by Wookie, Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:46 AM.