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I need Apple II games.


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#26 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:14 PM

The Apple game experience is an interesting one. Early games were innovative, but often kind of crappy graphic and sound wise. Later ones were fairly good to excellent, as people really got their heads around the limits.

So much software was made for those computers, and that's fun too. Because they could be expanded, there is also a considerable amount of useful, productivity software that is kind of surprising really, given the machine attributes.

Many game titles are superior on the Atari computers, but some aren't. There is a guy on You Tube who captured a ton of Apple software. You might go and look those over while you are waiting for hardware.


well, I do know most good games for the system. I want to give the Ultima games a shot, even though I have the DOS ones, which are better.

Mostly looking for arcade-quality games.

#27 The Usotsuki OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:38 AM

//c don't got tape port, and the DOS is loaded from disk, not stored on a ROM in the drive like on C=.

#28 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:03 AM

Dos in rom is so retarded.

#29 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:30 AM

//c don't got tape port, and the DOS is loaded from disk, not stored on a ROM in the drive like on C=.


Yes, I've since discovered that. :)

Dos in rom is so retarded.

That's nice. If you don't have something useful to post, why not go roll around like a dope in a different thread. I'm too busy completing my rite of passage to read your nonsense.

#30 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:08 PM

Turns out this is an Apple ][c PLUS!

I am in the processes of setting it all up now finally, and am really anxious to bleach the yellow out of it lol.


I am hoping to mix up some bleach for it and slap it under a UVB lamp soon. Good thing I keep lizards. No shortage of bulbs/hoods here!

#31 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:18 PM

Update:

Ok, so I popped it on and was greeted with a black and white screen.

Here come the immediate questions and comments

1) Should the screen be B&W? I am using the cable I'd use on a C64 to hook it up to a 1702 monitor. I'm using the color composite Apple II monitor.
2) What was this keyboard button for next to the volume slider? If it's pressed in, the keyboard starts doing really stupid stuff.
3) The reset button doesn't do anything!
4) Delete draws little squares on my screen. Where the heck is backspace.

I have a 3.5" disk labeled Apple IIC plus system 3.1. It was inserted when I booted up (since you cant get the disk out any other way). It gave me a failed to load Pro DOS message, complete with some goofy characters around the screen, like @'s and $s.

So, is this thing pretty good and dicked up?

External 5.25" drive blinked! No disks to test with. I guess I actually sold / traded off all my 5.25" disks. -_-;

#32 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:09 PM

//c don't got tape port, and the DOS is loaded from disk, not stored on a ROM in the drive like on C=.


Yes, I've since discovered that. :)

Dos in rom is so retarded.

That's nice. If you don't have something useful to post, why not go roll around like a dope in a different thread. I'm too busy completing my rite of passage to read your nonsense.


Keep contemplating, from the looks of things it's gonna take you a while.

If you take the right course of action you'll figure out the delete key, the reset key, the keyboard key. Not to mention the correct screen colors, and garbage characters.

#33 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:19 PM

Keep contemplating, from the looks of things it's gonna take you a while.

If you take the right course of action you'll figure out the delete key, the reset key, the keyboard key. Not to mention the correct screen colors, and garbage characters.


That says C-O-M-P-L-E-T-I-N-G. Not C-O-N-T-E-M-P-L-A-T-I-N-G. It's funny how you call something retarded, and then do something like that. =3

I'm not sure what is the "right course of action" anyways. Asking on a forum while I complete other things seems like a good idea to me. It isn't like I have a IIc Plus manual here to reference, nor do I have any prior Apple II experience to use as a frame of reference, and it isn't like someone here who actually has a clue isn't going to give a quick, cut, and dry response to any of the above.

so like I said before, go tard around in another thread. You're kind of annoying me, and not really doing anything of use.

Edited by Arkhan, Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:19 PM.


#34 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:55 PM

A play on words. Only the most grammatically competent can understand it..

I suggest you RTFM. It will answer each question. If you don't have one, well then, go get one! This isn't rocket science.

#35 The Usotsuki OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:03 AM

Update:

Ok, so I popped it on and was greeted with a black and white screen.

Here come the immediate questions and comments

1) Should the screen be B&W? I am using the cable I'd use on a C64 to hook it up to a 1702 monitor. I'm using the color composite Apple II monitor.
2) What was this keyboard button for next to the volume slider? If it's pressed in, the keyboard starts doing really stupid stuff.
3) The reset button doesn't do anything!
4) Delete draws little squares on my screen. Where the heck is backspace.

I have a 3.5" disk labeled Apple IIC plus system 3.1. It was inserted when I booted up (since you cant get the disk out any other way). It gave me a failed to load Pro DOS message, complete with some goofy characters around the screen, like @'s and $s.

So, is this thing pretty good and dicked up?

External 5.25" drive blinked! No disks to test with. I guess I actually sold / traded off all my 5.25" disks. -_-;


It's possible. ProDOS failing to load should say "*** UNABLE TO LOAD PRODOS ***" (later versions lack the stars) on a blank screen.

#36 Ransom OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:43 AM

1) Should the screen be B&W? I am using the cable I'd use on a C64 to hook it up to a 1702 monitor. I'm using the color composite Apple II monitor.
2) What was this keyboard button for next to the volume slider? If it's pressed in, the keyboard starts doing really stupid stuff.
3) The reset button doesn't do anything!
4) Delete draws little squares on my screen. Where the heck is backspace.


Looks like you're having fun with the quirks of the Apple ][ line. :)

The default text output of the Apple ]['s is monochrome. So on a color monitor you'd get black and white.
The "Keyboard" switch alternates between QWERTY and DVORAK layouts.
To reset, hit CTRL-Apple-Reset.
The delete key's behavior isn't defined in the firmware. In programs like Appleworks, it will behave as expected. But when using the built-in editor (as you are), it will just output its ASCII character when pressed. Use the left arrow to move the cursor left when using the built-in line editor.

Note that, since it's a //c+, you'll need a different serial cable than I mentioned above. The serial port is a mini DIN-8 on this model.

#37 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:41 AM

It's possible. ProDOS failing to load should say "*** UNABLE TO LOAD PRODOS ***" (later versions lack the stars) on a blank screen.


Yeah, I didn't exactly get a blank screen, hah. There were some stray characters all over. It also stopped saying unable to load prodos after a few power off/ons.

as for the rest, thank you Ransom, you cleared up my questions and concerns. I figured I was meant to see B&W until games (as that's how the emulator worked), but I just wanted to make sure there weren't more things to be wary of with this thing, like needing a special cable instead of any ol' RF cable.

The keyboard was making me worry that I'd have to disassemble and clean the thing out. It feels as if it'd be a bit of a pain to clean it as opposed to a C64 keyboard.

I did notice after I played a bit more that the keyboard key switched it to DVORAK. Kind of useless, but kind of neat. *shrug*

also, yeah, I spotted the mini-din on the back and the first words out of my mouth were "goddamnit!". I'm not a fan of the mini-din connectors. PC engine's use them for controllers. They are trickier to find connectors/etc for than standard DINs. -_-; ah well. At least retrofloppy has it either way.


A play on words. Only the most grammatically competent can understand it..

That is not a play on words. That was you changing a word because you're an idiot and you're too busy being a condescending prick to offer any assistance.

I suggest you RTFM. It will answer each question. If you don't have one, well then, go get one! This isn't rocket science.


Yes, let me get out my manu.. oh wait, I don't have a manual.

I did search for a manual for the IIc Plus. After the first few hits were pretty useless, I decided "hey, maybe I should just ask the people on Atari Age in the thread who have a clue already".

Note, you are not one of those people. So, again, shut your mouth, and go exercise your annoying stupidity somewhere else.

It's daft wastes of bandwidth like you that defeat the purpose of posting questions and seeking help on forums.

"HURRRRR READ THE MANUAL"

I could understand it if it's something like "how do I turn the thing on?", "how do I attach the floppy drive?", or "where does the floppy disk go?"

but questions like "is this the expected behavior of the delete key" and "should the screen be doing this?" aren't exactly things you may readily find in a manual anyways. It's more efficient to just ask someone, and go work on something else and check back for an answer later than it is to dig around for an hour or two finding and reading a manual only to find out the delete key is doing what it should be doing.

ANYWAY,

because the screen has some goofy characters along with the unable to load proDOS message, is that indicative of a bigger problem?

Meaning, should I hock this thing and go get a IIe or something? Does the IIc+ offer me anything exciting over a standard sized Apple II?

EDIT: Updated my question at the end there. ^^^^

Edited by Arkhan, Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:45 AM.


#38 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:54 AM

Random characters = intermittent connections and/or generally bad ram.

#39 magnusfalkirk OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:56 AM

Update:

Ok, so I popped it on and was greeted with a black and white screen.

Here come the immediate questions and comments

Snip

I have a 3.5" disk labeled Apple IIC plus system 3.1. It was inserted when I booted up (since you cant get the disk out any other way). It gave me a failed to load Pro DOS message, complete with some goofy characters around the screen, like @'s and $s.

So, is this thing pretty good and dicked up?

External 5.25" drive blinked! No disks to test with. I guess I actually sold / traded off all my 5.25" disks. -_-;


I'm surprised you got a failed to load Prodos message as I have a IIc+ also but if it can't boot the disk in the drive, or there is no disk in the drive, it says: "unable to find a bootable disk online." Your 5.25 drive blinked because after not being able to boot the 3.5 it went to the 5.25 looking for a disk there. About the only advantage the IIc+ will give you over an Apple IIe is that it has a built in accelerator. Apple licensed Zip Technologies Zip Chip for the IIc+ but broke the core components into separate pieces on the motherboard, as they were worried about the height of the regular Zip Chip.

Dean

#40 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:00 PM

The //c+ manual right here on the internet. It is readily available from premier sites.

Anyone with an understanding of retrocomputing in general will know that keys take on different actions based on software being loaded. Hell, it's a fundamental principle of computing that applies in the most modern of systems today.

It is also important to understand the differences between genuinely bad ram, MouseText, un-intentional harmless garbage being generated as a program loads and overwrites parts of the text page, drops into the monitor, and characters that look like garbage but are not. None of which can be 100% determined because the initial problem description isn't sufficient.

Sounds like the 2 series of systems isn't your cup of tea, go back and play with the C64.

#41 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:17 PM

Apple licensed Zip Technologies Zip Chip for the IIc+ but broke the core components into separate pieces on the motherboard, as they were worried about the height of the regular Zip Chip.

Dean


It was a little known issue, but sometimes the timings got messed up. This is directly a result of the zip chip accelerator being spread among several components. And as is typical of the day, ram timings are probably at fault. The //c+ tends to make marginal ram fail more often then say a //e or standard //c. This also means the connections to the ram must be in good shape.

To the end user, garbage text and out of place $'s show up. Especially on a unit that has been sitting around with the power off for some extended time (several years).This problem initially shows up and then disappears. Only to return later from time to time. There are 3 key components which are involved in this and the fix is really simple. A 1/2 hour project, tops.

Some //c+ units (ones made right before they stopped production) have the mod already done.

#42 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:19 PM

Magnus, Yeah, I know why the 5.25" blinked. :) I meant that as a "yay, at least one thing is working!" (I hope. It may blink, but may not read properly...)

The prodos message has since stopped appearing and I just get barfed straight to the glorious prompt. I don't get an unable to find a bootable disk online message at all.

I'm leaning towards maybe hocking this thing to someone who's into restoration projects.... in favor of a known working IIe, so I can get a mockingboard shoved in it and start with a clean record. It would be a bit of a waste if I get the thing repaired and functioning only to find out I don't really enjoy it... like I did with a bunch of Amiga computers.

Though, it is neat that it has the same 6502 derivative as the PC Engine, so it's making me hard to get rid of it. I like the 65C02

*cracks knuckles*

The //c+ manual right here on the internet. It is readily available from premier sites.

Ok, I've about had it with you, dude. You are as useless as they come.

I'm thrilled you found the manual. Good for you. Do you want a cookie?

Provide a link maybe. You're not being helpful if you just say I HAVE IT RIGHT HERE FROM PREMIER SITES!!!11 Where does that get anyone? How does that help? It doesn't. It just makes you look like a dickhead.

My bad for not locating it when I searched. As I've noted a few times, and you've apparently been too stupid and full of yourself to notice is that I have OTHER things I am doing that are a bit more pressing. You try working on a job, a game, and a thesis while troubleshooting a computer you've NEVER touched before, and let me know how that goes for you. Sinking time would mean I am shirking something with more precedence.

Anyone with an understanding of retrocomputing in general will know that keys take on different actions based on software being loaded. Hell, it's a fundamental principle of computing that applies in the most modern of systems today.

More of the idiotic condescension. It's common for the delete key to at least DELETE something, and not just print a square. There is no backspace key. Pardon me for wondering if maybe the keyboard isn't operating properly. The computer is so yellow it's brown, and came from a heavy smoker's basement. These are acceptable assumptions from someone who doesn't know what the standard function is.

How about I sit you down in front of a broken retrocomputer you have NEVER seen or used before, and see how you manage? I dunno about you, but I don't feel like wasting hours of my time if someone else can just tell me the answer. I'll learn the same thing both ways. It's not like I'm asking for answers to math homework. I'm asking "should this be doing this?"

It is also important to understand the differences between genuinely bad ram, MouseText, un-intentional harmless garbage being generated as a program loads and overwrites parts of the text page, drops into the monitor, and characters that look like garbage but are not. None of which can be 100% determined because the initial problem description isn't sufficient.

I understand the differences, however, like I've mentioned already, and you've been too stupid (repeatedly) to notice, I've never used Apple II's before outside of popping a disk in at school and playing Oregon Trail, or firing up a game in an emulator like 8 years ago..

Besides, what is common for one platform is not the same for another, hence my questions. To take a page from your own book: Anyone with an understanding of retrocomputing in general should know this.

Plus, the description was sufficient enough for someone else with their head NOT up their ass to say it shouldn't have stray characters at the failed to load pro dos screen.

Sounds like you are projecting a little. =3

Sounds like the 2 series of systems isn't your cup of tea, go back and play with the C64.


Yes, because this is a perfect conclusion to draw from my 1 day long experience with an Apple IIc in unknown condition that I pulled out of a box from someones basement. You're a real frigging genius.

You're also a slow m-fing learner. I said STFU and go wave your dick around in another thread, as you are being a useless waste of time here. Your rejection to someone asking questions is pathetic.

How many times to I have to tell you to piss off before you get your hand out of your pants and actually do it?

EDIT: And since you are averse to answering questions, and would rather just act like a tool, how about you direct me to the most reliable Apple IIc troubleshooting guide/chart/how-to.

Edited by Arkhan, Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:20 PM.


#43 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:30 PM

Sounds like a little love and anger management instruction is due. You can find books on the internet about that too.

#44 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:31 PM

Sounds like a little love and anger management instruction is due. You can find books on the internet about that too.


Sorry, I don't love toolbags such as yourself. Thankfully the other 3 or 4 posters in this thread haven't proven themselves to be worthless as humans.

#45 magnusfalkirk OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:05 PM

Arkhan,

There's a preliminary copy of the Apple IIc Technical Reference Manual located on this page: http://www.apple-iigs.info/dociie.php I've found this site to be a really good source of software and documentation for Apple II computers. I've also got a hard copy of the first edition of the IIc technical reference so I might be able to look up things that might not be covered in this pdf. The book you really need to find, and I haven't been able to locate a pdf of yet, is the Second Edition of the tech reference, as it also covers the IIc+.

Dean

#46 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:12 PM

Arkhan,

There's a preliminary copy of the Apple IIc Technical Reference Manual located on this page: http://www.apple-iigs.info/dociie.php I've found this site to be a really good source of software and documentation for Apple II computers. I've also got a hard copy of the first edition of the IIc technical reference so I might be able to look up things that might not be covered in this pdf. The book you really need to find, and I haven't been able to locate a pdf of yet, is the Second Edition of the tech reference, as it also covers the IIc+.

Dean


Cool, thanks. Too bad the almighty keatah won't share his premier site with books on it.

#47 magnusfalkirk OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:05 PM

Here's a pdf of the actual IIc Technical Reference Manual, covering the original IIc to the memory expansion version: http://www.apple2onl...=1_15_Apple-IIc this is another good site for Apple II software and docs. Must have been a lot of differences between the preliminary version and the final version as the one at Apple 2 Online has 209 pages more than the preliminary version from the French website.

Dean

#48 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:35 PM

Excellent. Though my current dilemma is I need the cable to send prodos over.

#49 magnusfalkirk OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:42 PM

As you commented in an earlier post you can always get the cable from RetroFloppy, which is what I did to hook my Mac Mini up to my IIGS. I have no complaints about the cable and it is probably much better than what I could have ever thought about making on my own. If I remember right the prices David charges for the cables are pretty reasonable as well.

Dean

#50 Arkhan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:51 PM

Yeah for 20$ id rather just buy one.

If it was the regular din, I would make it myself.

Hopefully I can get things operational.

I powered it up just now and it says *** UNABLE TO LOOAD PRODOS *** and sits there, as opposed to the wonderful messes of last night.

The keyboard seems operational too.

So, perhaps things will turn out alright once the cable arrives. Ordering it now along with both the 3.5 and 5.25" copies of the disks.

Next on the agenda is , if this thing actually works, I need to de-yellow it. I cant stand yellow-crap.



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