All ATARI 8 BIT H/W S/W issue's bugs etc.

[marcokitt2000]

Hello ATARI friends,

 

 

I will start this topic need a list hardware and all so software (OS issues) bug's, and have the C64 all so h/w and s/w bugs os issues?

Why i read about gtia error bug or 800xe 65xe etc... need a list and special if here is a c64 user or a msx user now them error's i don't belive that atari has some issue's.

 

 

 

 

Greetings Marco.

[KubaCZ]

Not sure what you excatly mean/want, but GTIA bug really exists, here you have video of it:

 

 

There's somewhere thread about fixing it.

[Bryan]

I'm not sure if he means the truly defective GTIA batch or the "GTIA bug" of having one of the 3 modes shifted 1 clock from the others. The only real hardware bug I know of is the "masked NMI" bug, which can be traced back to early MOS 6502 documentation which states that an NMI should be asserted for 2 cycles (which is what Antic does). In reality, 2 cycles isn't always enough.

 

There are some other quirks about the hardware, but nothing that impacts performance.

[marcokitt2000]

I'm not sure if he means the truly defective GTIA batch or the "GTIA bug" of having one of the 3 modes shifted 1 clock from the others. The only real hardware bug I know of is the "masked NMI" bug, which can be traced back to early MOS 6502 documentation which states that an NMI should be asserted for 2 cycles (which is what Antic does). In reality, 2 cycles isn't always enough.

 

There are some other quirks about the hardware, but nothing that impacts performance.

 

 

 

Yes thats what a mean but all so all sort of hardware bugs and software errors (os) in 1987 i have a atari 800xe (buyed in germany) thats why i need so much more info make a list off it.

[foft]

My favourite software bug in basic was in the split text modes (e.g. gr1/2) where you can hit break immediately after return and get the basic interpreter in the top half of the screen...

[+Stephen]

My favourite software bug in basic was in the split text modes (e.g. gr1/2) where you can hit break immediately after return and get the basic interpreter in the top half of the screen...

Never heard of that one before

[Rybags]

Not really a bug.

If you build a custom DList with the OS assuming you're in standard Gr. 0, then that's what can happen.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Rybags

[R4ngerM4n]

The GTIA bug tells a lot about Atari's quality control.

[+Stephen]

The GTIA bug tells a lot about Atari's quality control.

Maybe - maybe not. I don't think even the users or demo coders discovered it until 91 or 93. That's a hell of a long time considering the machines were out in 79.

 

EDIT - never mind. I was thinking of the GTIA 10 half color clock pixel shift. Not the "broken" GTIAs.

[Rybags]

Depends which GTIA "bug" you're talking about.

The shifted pixel in paletted mode turns out to be very useful.

 

The bad GTIA batch which renders as if GTIA mode isn't even enabled isn't useful, and should have been picked up on straight away.

[kenjennings]

What GTIA bug/bad GTIAs? DO you mean what is referred to on the Wikipedia page for GTIA? "...The last Atari XE computers made for the Eastern European market were built in China. Many if not all have a buggy PAL GTIA chip. The luma values in Graphics 9 and higher are at fault, appearing as stripes. Replacing the chip fixes the problem...." ? Well, it figures that was a Tramiel-era failure. Probably his last parting shot to the computer he couldn't kill while running Commodore.

 

As for hardware bugs, I consider removing the two joystick ports in the XL idiocy like an intentional bug/sabotage. Really?! To bank switch they HAD to steal hardware in use and couldn't add anything?

 

Count the inept video output electronics added to the XL and later as a bug. You'd think for a computer that speciailizes in graphics they'd have the wherewithal to get someone who understands video to make the interface. Well, by that time all the important people with clue tokens were already working elsewhere (Amiga). (I guess it could be worse for us -- there's nothing uglier than a C64 NTSC TV display.)

 

Software-ware wise there were a few things. Atari BASIC didn't get to version C by being bug free in version A. Also, the move command in OSS's BASIC XL works fine on an 800, but breaks on an XL -- one of several things broken by the XL OS. How long did it take for Atari to realize we needed the Transformer?

 

The floating point in the Atari OS was pretty darned slow, not a bug, but a performance hit. Between the Newell Fastchip fixing FP, and the Fast mode in BASIC XL my 800XL ran like it had an overclocking an accelerator.

 

Given the size of the Atari OS, (at the time of release an unheard amount of features in a low end microcomputer) I'm surprised it doesn't have a lot more issues.

[Shawn Jefferson]

As for hardware bugs, I consider removing the two joystick ports in the XL idiocy like an intentional bug/sabotage. Really?! To bank switch they HAD to steal hardware in use and couldn't add anything?

 

If you think about it, it wasn't that bad of a move. Most other computers of the time only had two joystick ports, and software was being ported from or to those systems, so most games didn't have 4 player options anyhow. Adding anything to the board would have increased the costs. As it was, they probably saved money, or at least came out net-zero by removing the two joystick ports.

[kenjennings]

As for hardware bugs, I consider removing the two joystick ports in the XL idiocy like an intentional bug/sabotage. Really?! To bank switch they HAD to steal hardware in use and couldn't add anything?

 

If you think about it, it wasn't that bad of a move. Most other computers of the time only had two joystick ports, and software was being ported from or to those systems, so most games didn't have 4 player options anyhow. Adding anything to the board would have increased the costs. As it was, they probably saved money, or at least came out net-zero by removing the two joystick ports.

 

As graphically lame as it was, Asteroids on the Atari 800 was the most popular game in my college dorm, primarily because it allowed four players. It was played more as a team Space War game than for shooting the asteroids. Multi-player breakout on the 800 was almost as popular. They were visually uninspiring, but the social aspect of multiplayer gaming made up for a lot. Ahead of its time.

Edited March 10, 2012 by kenjennings

[Retro Rogue]

Well, it figures that was a Tramiel-era failure. Probably his last parting shot to the computer he couldn't kill while running Commodore.

 

LOL, he's the one that kept those 8-bits on the market as long as they were. He could have very easily just killed them. Please tell me you're not buying in to the usual anti-Tramiel missinformation that's out there?

 

As for hardware bugs, I consider removing the two joystick ports in the XL idiocy like an intentional bug/sabotage. Really?! To bank switch they HAD to steal hardware in use and couldn't add anything?

 

Well, by that time all the important people with clue tokens were already working elsewhere (Amiga).

 

So completely untrue. The advance computer projects being done from '82-'84 (Shakti, Sierra, Explorer, and more) were staggering for the time, let alone what was coming out of Alan Kay's R&D group.

[kenjennings]

Well, it figures that was a Tramiel-era failure. Probably his last parting shot to the computer he couldn't kill while running Commodore.

 

LOL, he's the one that kept those 8-bits on the market as long as they were. He could have very easily just killed them. Please tell me you're not buying in to the usual anti-Tramiel missinformation that's out there?

 

Yes, I exaggerate slightly. Of course he couldn't outright kill them. He needed the Atari logo worshippers to stay on the hook to buy his ST. In lieu of not being able to axe them he just made them a little less compatible, less reliable, more cheap. We got cost-reduced, while Commodore fans got the C128. (nobody here woould have wanted an Atari 800 with twice the clock rate and an 80 column display, Nah.) That's called being given the smelly end of the stick.

 

Well, by that time all the important people with clue tokens were already working elsewhere (Amiga).

 

So completely untrue. The advance computer projects being done from '82-'84 (Shakti, Sierra, Explorer, and more) were staggering for the time, let alone what was coming out of Alan Kay's R&D group.

 

I'm sure they did a lot of neat wizardy, but if it never leaves the lab it doesn't count for much. If the posts here and other sites on fixing the XL video are any indication then this staggering talent remaining at Atari didn't appear to include anyone who knew how to make a proper video signal exit a computer.