Keatah Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Essentially the C64 would need to command the Disk II mechanism in real-time and operate it on a parallel bus. The stepper motor, spindle motor, and data flow are all set up by the host processor. You would also best begin by treating the Interface card and Disk II unit as one component. A lot has been written on the Disk II and its extraordinarily simple design. It's quick, operating at just under SuperSerialCard speed of 115,200 baud. And it has few parts to fail. The Disk II drive has zero on-board intelligence. And it's controller card is a simple state-machine computer comprised of a couple of TTL gates and a 256-byte PROM and 556 timer. It also has another 256-bytes of rom to start the boot sequence, read dos, put it in memory, and start it rolling. Disk operations require nearly 100% of the host's CPU during read/write operations. Thus all user program activity stops when LOAD or SAVE are invoked. But clever interrupting can allow disk access and other tasks to happen simultaneously. We did it with our BBS software. As the user typed the logon database was accessed. And each character narrowed down the records. By the time the user finished entering his or her name, we had the logon credentials verified. And it "seemed" to work at ramdisk speeds from the user's end. The Disk II can copy a disk in 20-30 seconds if you have 2 drives, 1-read, 2-write. It keeps up nicely with the SuperSerialCard and ADTpro running at 115,200 baud. In the scenario of transferring a disk image from the PC -> Apple II, it looks like a streaming operation. And fast load DOS' was common everywhere back in the day so we didn't have to wait for our WaReZ to load. http://apple2history.org/history/ah05/ http://apple2history.org/history/ah09/#01 ..and chapter 9 of: ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.com/pub/apple_II/documentation/hardware/machines/understanding%20the%20apple%20ii.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Apple floppy drives seem quite readily available. I had considered trying to adapt them for the TI, but I read the same information you posted above (though I am not certain the sources.) Looks like it would be very difficult, not impossible but pretty impractical, to convert the standard interface of the TI to the Apple floppy drives. Instead, we can just stuff standard drives into cases from other systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I would guess you could build an intelligent interface to connect the drive to a different bus. And use a 2nd microcontroller to interpret commands or signals. I don't see why you'd want to other than for the love of the hobby and doing a project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz73 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 A VERY used (when I first got it) C=64 w/datasette drive, a 9" or 10" B&W TV and (a few months later) a 1650 MoDem (300 BAUD). Regardless what type of setup I may have at any given moment, I still miss that thing and the days of 40 column ASCII text BBSes in the Santa Cruz, CA area. Then I realize that it's not 1987 anymore... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurdockScott Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I started on a few TRS-80s that my jr. high school had installed in a very small computer lab that I begged/scammed my way into (1980?). After that my mother and my step father purchased a tricked out TI99/4a system that I had limited access to. As soon as the systems dropped to $49 I scraped up enough cash to get a beige one. That was the machine I finished my first game on, but I was already way behind the curve and I knew it. Based on having a shipped product, I applied for and got Apple certified developer status (perhaps they weren't as picky as I imagined) and my buddy and I ordered a Mac 512Ke with 2 external (800k? 400k?) disk drives, Megamax C and a printer... even at that discount, we had to borrow a LOT of money. He was supposed to learn C and I was supposed to develop art and story. It soon became clear that I was the only one really interested in moving forward, so after a couple of years of banging my head against the wall that was Megamax C, I tried my best to put all the content work I had done together into World Builder games and released them as shareware but by then I was once again late to the party. Still everything I learned in those years has been a precursor to my career(s) in various creative fields. I eventually WAS way ahead of the curve in using computers for digital art and music. And it all started on blinky old TRS-80s and my beloved TI99/4a. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 This was and still is. It's about 34 years old now. You know... as I've been RE-perusing this thread this morning, that photo of your TRS-80 Model III is giving me a longing for the old days. I'd really like to get back into the TRS-80 with probably a Model IV. But even if I could find a 'killer deal' on a working and pristine model to give a new adopted home to, I'm afraid it would suck my hobby fund dry. I'd want to 'modernize' any system I got with with a Lotharek HxC, it's own UDS-10 and probably anything else that I could find that would be cool. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 ti-994a.png Now THAT is a nice graphic! I think I might 'steal it' and see how it looks on a cartridge label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo-Torch Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 You know... as I've been RE-perusing this thread this morning, that photo of your TRS-80 Model III is giving me a longing for the old days. I'd really like to get back into the TRS-80 with probably a Model IV. But even if I could find a 'killer deal' on a working and pristine model to give a new adopted home to, I'm afraid it would suck my hobby fund dry. I'd want to 'modernize' any system I got with with a Lotharek HxC, it's own UDS-10 and probably anything else that I could find that would be cool. I think a FreHD (mimics a hard drive) is around $180.00 and it's built specifically for the TRS-80. Even less if you buy as a kit and assemble it yourself. As long as you buy a fully optioned III or IV, there's not a whole lot more you'd need to invest. They are very reliable so there isn't much upkeep...biggest failure are the X-caps in the power supplies and they're cheap and easy to replace. One cool accessory is an Orchestra 90 which are a bit rare but usually go for under $100.00. Stay away from the 16K cassette based models (what mine started off as). You will end up spending a small fortune on disk drives, disk controller board, disk power supply, RS232 and additional RAM. I cringe when I think of how many lawns I mowed to pay for that stuff back in the 80s! I'd keep an eye on Craigslist as they do turn up every so often. With ebay, shipping will always be a killer. Oh, as far as transferring files, I just use a null modem adapter hooked to my PC. On the PC, I use Telix with a host script so it's just like logging into an old school BBS and downloading the programs to my floppy disks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I'd keep an eye on Craigslist as they do turn up every so often. With ebay, shipping will always be a killer. Good advice... Currently no Model 4, but there is an MC-10 << HERE >> 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo-Torch Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Funny how those things are always in the box with original foam and instructions! I remember when they were on clearance for I think $10 but were sold out when I got there. It would be cool to have one, but not $40 cool. Last good TRS-80 deal I saw on my local Craigslist was about a year ago. Two Model 4 units (I believe one was a Gate Array) both fully loaded and with boxes of original software for $50.00. Wasn't sure if I wanted it and after a few days I decided to call and someone was already on their way to pick them up. That was one of the dumbest decisions I've made in a while. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I would have loved to have picked up a few MC-10s when they were closing them out, but I'm pretty sure I was too busy with college to care. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 My first computer was an Apple ][e which I still have to this day. Like many others it was really the "family" computer at first but it later became exclusive or my use when the parents moved to bigger machines. Around me it was an oddity as most other kids had a C64 or a version of MSX, but that was cool because we'd have different games to show off to each other. The first game I remember playing is Sneakers by Sirius Software. I didn't get major extensions but I had a printer and disk drives, so used to spend a lot of time making my own "newspaper" with Newsroom or printing signs with the Print Shop. I didn't use BBS with it though, that came later once I had moved to PCs (which to me were the "spiritual" successors of the ][e over the Macs). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 That's right. The first PCs had more in common with the Apple II than the MAC ever did. Many design concepts from the II were carried into the PC. The discrete logic, lack of custom chips, and the slots being among the most evident. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 That's right. The first PCs had more in common with the Apple II than the MAC ever did. Many design concepts from the II were carried into the PC. The discrete logic, lack of custom chips, and the slots being among the most evident. Yeah, but that was also a deliberate choice. Had it not been for Wozniak, the Apple II would have lacked most upgrade capabilities. Jobs was able to put down his iron fist with the design of the Mac. You can read stories about what happened when they included 512k capability in the 128k Mac and how Jobs had a fit over that, and the "Mezannine" slot on the iMac. His statement on the former was "if people want a 512k Mac they can buy a new one." The latter was slipped past Jobs as a "factory diagnostic" port, with the thought that resourceful hackers would figure it out and start making peripherals -- which they did. Jobs found out and demanded a firmware release which would disable the port permanently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurdockScott Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I had my Lisa open today... it was a beautiful thing. Kinda a reminder of what an open Mac system could have been. : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Had Apple been a little less restrictive, the Mac/Lisa would have become the dominant platform. But I suppose in 2016 none of that matters anymore. Files produced by one system have to be usable in others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurdockScott Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 You could be right, I love the way the Lisa is put together and would have loved to see that continue to the Mac... but it was sure was crazy expensive. (even compared to the fist Macs with in turn were costly) After a little scare, I got mine booted up today. Not bad for a 30+ year old computer! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap! Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I was late on the computer scene, so technically if was 1987 with the XEGS, although since I didn't immediately own a floppy drive, (and never had a hard drive or a modem for it), calling it a computer may be a bit of a stretch. After that, I got the Atari 1040 STe in 1991. PC time was 1993, with a free IBM XT and CGA monitor that one guy was giving away for free. The rest is history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copper20 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 An IBM EPSON that I never figured out how to use. We got a Windows 95 Packard Bell some time in early 1997 with a cohort of educational PC games and a classic mech game called G-Nome (Reminds me of 50s scfi movies like War of the Worlds and Forbidden Planet) which the old disc I think was tossed out originally cause they said the disc was beat up, but got a new disc about 8 years ago. Honestly the Packard Bell was probably the easiest PC I used up to that point, I could NEVER, EVER, figure out how the hell to use an IBM!! Thank god for Windows 95! Definitely owe a lot to Microsoft, even though their newer OSes aren't very good... I probably wouldn't go back to a Packard Bell since those are kind of hard to upgrade or so. Compaq, Gateway, or Dell definitely were better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 In the 80s and 90s Epson had a bunch of tools on their PCs that made MS-DOS easier to use 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 My dad had a Packard Bell 286. And after playing with that I soon got a 486 from Gw2k. I always thought that Packard Bell was a righteous historical name full of history and early American heritage. Right or wrong, it is what I thought.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The name, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkO Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 In the 80s and 90s Epson had a bunch of tools on their PCs that made MS-DOS easier to use Cue the Entrance of, "Executive Systems Inc.", maker of Epson's Backup Software and eventually X-Tree, X-Tree Pro and X-Tree Pro Gold File Managers... MarkO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkO Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) My dad had a Packard Bell 286. And after playing with that I soon got a 486 from Gw2k. I always thought that Packard Bell was a righteous historical name full of history and early American heritage. Right or wrong, it is what I thought.. Packard Bell the Computer Company was NOT the same as Packard Bell the Radio and Defense Contractor.. MarkO Edited March 24, 2016 by MarkO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeyboots80 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 The first computer I ever used was an Apple IIe at school, but the first computer I owned was an Atari 800 with 48k of RAM. Star Raiders, Rogue, Ultima III, Missile Command, and a vastly superior version of Pac-Man. Man, those were good times. Or so says my trusty pair of nostalgia-fueled-rose-tinted-glasses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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