69 replies to this topic

[retroillucid]

As most of you may already know, I'm working on a Coleco History Book since awhile now...
That idea came in 1996 when I started archiving and totaly studying all about my favorite game system but also my favorite toy company

I'm now at 90% done , I managed to included ALOT of photos (unseen) and alot of infos never available on the web!
Including photos of buildings, toys, pools and so many stuff!

My main problem with that book is without any doubt, making a great layout..... or should I say, a PERFECT layout!
Sure, it doesn't look so bad, but I really want to make a professional looking book .

Also, not something you could print a your local printing company,,,,,
It will be professionaly made, or it will never be made! ... Simple as that!

So, if someone can help me with this, I would appreciate it

Contact me if you can help



Thanks

[fiddlepaddle]

Just a comment...  I've been working on a book with about a hundred pictures off and on for about 4 years now, and I still haven't got the layout exactly right, or the format clean enough to send to an online publisher/printer, which I will eventually do.  It's a lot more work than I thought it would be at first.  

A friend of mine printed her book through Lulu.com and it turned out pretty good (8x10 black & white (with a color soft cover), about 175 pages, with maybe 50 photos, two columns each page, english on the left and chinese on the right).  She was selling them for $15 each, so I know she paid less than that for printing, and it wasn't a huge volume.  

Color cost a lot more per page, and hardback seems to cost about $10 more per book.  I think I estimated a 250 page color hardback would cost about $75 each if I printed a few hundred (I have a photo on most pages, so I'd probably need to print the whole thing in color).  

Ebooks are really cheap to publish, but I'm not sure I'd want to do that (exclusively) with the kind of book you're talking about.  Good luck!

[RelliK111]

fiddlepaddle, on Thu Apr 5, 2012 11:38 PM, said:

Just a comment...  I've been working on a book with about a hundred pictures off and on for about 4 years now, and I still haven't got the layout exactly right, or the format clean enough to send to an online publisher/printer, which I will eventually do.  It's a lot more work than I thought it would be at first.  

A friend of mine printed her book through Lulu.com and it turned out pretty good (8x10 black & white (with a color soft cover), about 175 pages, with maybe 50 photos, two columns each page, english on the left and chinese on the right).  She was selling them for $15 each, so I know she paid less than that for printing, and it wasn't a huge volume.  

Color cost a lot more per page, and hardback seems to cost about $10 more per book.  I think I estimated a 250 page color hardback would cost about $75 each if I printed a few hundred (I have a photo on most pages, so I'd probably need to print the whole thing in color).  

Ebooks are really cheap to publish, but I'm not sure I'd want to do that (exclusively) with the kind of book you're talking about.  Good luck!

Will maybe with the mix of the Ebooks and Hardback it could offset the huge cost of hardback as there would be more profit with the ebooks I would think. Just a thought because $75 is a lot for each book + you would still need some profit on top of that.

Edited by RelliK111, Fri Apr 6, 2012 12:34 AM.

[LynxVGL]

retroillucid, on Thu Apr 5, 2012 10:02 PM, said:

As most of you may already know, I'm working on a Coleco History Book since awhile now...
That idea came in 1996 when I started archiving and totaly studying all about my favorite game system but also my favorite toy company

I'm now at 90% done , I managed to included ALOT of photos (unseen) and alot of infos never available on the web!
Including photos of buildings, toys, pools and so many stuff!

My main problem with that book is without any doubt, making a great layout..... or should I say, a PERFECT layout!
Sure, it doesn't look so bad, but I really want to make a professional looking book .

Also, not something you could print a your local printing company,,,,,
It will be professionaly made, or it will never be made! ... Simple as that!

So, if someone can help me with this, I would appreciate it

Contact me if you can help



Thanks

I'm wondering about the decision not to do an Ebook?  I've been toying around with a project for some time now and was strongly considering Ebook instead of "traditional" publishing.  Is it because you feel the book is so graphic intensive that an Ebook isn't a good fit?  I'm really interested because I may have some similar issues with my project.

[Pixelboy]

LynxVGL, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 8:06 AM, said:

I'm wondering about the decision not to do an Ebook?  I've been toying around with a project for some time now and was strongly considering Ebook instead of "traditional" publishing.  Is it because you feel the book is so graphic intensive that an Ebook isn't a good fit?  I'm really interested because I may have some similar issues with my project.

I certainly don't mean to answer for retroillucid, but to me: Ebook with pictures = web site.  

[5-11under]

First of all... book = I'll buy it... e-book = I'll take it for free.

Choices...

"Online" publisher versus local publisher... each has its advantages... price versus support. One thing I'd seriously consider is on-demand printing, so you wouldn't need to have a bunch of copies in stock, and you wouldn't have to be limited to a specific quantity. It'd be more expensive, most likely, but might be simpler. Customers could just order them online without your intervention required. Perhaps there's also a way to order a bunch up-front at a cheaper cost, then after the first run is sold, then sell them "on-demand".

I'd also do a lot of research to figure out what company will do the best job at printing. I'd probably make sure to get a prototype to make sure it's 100% the way you want it.

I'm assuming you have your "regular" editor on hand to help with the text. As far as the layout goes, it might also be useful to enlist some professional or semi-professional help.

My 2 cents.

edit: I actually don't buy too much CV stuff, but I'd definitely be in for a book.

Edited by 5-11under, Fri Apr 6, 2012 8:38 AM.

[cOLeCoHiTMan]

Planning any trips down to Windsor Ontario ??

http://www.windsorst...5218/story.html

1st in Canada

[Bill Loguidice]

"Profit" will be pretty tough, as it's even difficult for traditionally published books to turn a profit. I do those for the satisfaction and the small chance that one might hit, otherwise the work I put into the books really is not offset by the money from them. I think it would be even harder self published.

Anyway, with the type of book you're talking about, I've seen a few different approaches work. For the first version of the Ultima Collector's guide, I know the genteman printed and bound all the copies himself and charged a lot of money for the books. For his next revision, he went with a more traditional on demand printing type of situation and lowered the price. Obviously the insides were black and white and the color cover was a softcover. Doing any reasonable page count with color on your own is fairly cost prohibitive.

Several of these projects have gone the Kickstarter route, though I think your potential audience is rather limited regardless (maybe a few hundred copies sold), so that may not be viable given the limited scope of the work (ColecoVision for Coleco fans).

Personally, based on what you've said, I think going the ebook route is the most cost effective and lowest risk (it will work well for all the color tablets out there). You could also offer a print on demand option, both black and white and color for those few who will pay the big bucks for a paper copy.

[5-11under]

J-F, how many pages are we talking about? What page size, approximately? Also, is it mostly full-colour?

[retroillucid]

Brett McLean, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 9:04 AM, said:

Planning any trips down to Windsor Ontario ??

http://www.windsorst...5218/story.html

1st in Canada

Look interesting....   not sure I understand it all the process though..... ?


I'm not looking for profits by making this book, I just want a real book beiing made

Ebook is not an option at this point, I never considered this since the whole story will be available on colecoindustries.com
So like Pixelboy said, ebook = website

The book should have about 60 to 100 pages depending on the layout and pictures
All pages will be in B&W , except for the cover wich will be in colors

I wish I would be able to release it this year,  right in time for the 80th Anniversary of Coleco Industries

[cOLeCoHiTMan]

Check out the videos and more on Xerox's site
http://www.xerox.com.../mult-enus.html

[Bill Loguidice]

Personally, I prefer ebook reading these days (I presently use an iPad 2) and do most of my book and magazine reading on that. I don't see how that equates in any way to a Website, but then I've always been comfortable embracing change along with the past. It's something I think you should strongly reconsider so your work will be available to more people since again, doing print work is expensive, no way around it... It's your work, though and I'll do my best to support any decision of course, but it's not like you're not creating the digital files anyway and it's not like the ebook experience can't be every bit as good (or better) than the print experience, so I can't quite figure the point of forsaking an obvious option...

[retroillucid]

You have good points, Bill
Having an Ipad myself, I think ebook will come stronger and stronger over time
While I'm not against ebook, I sure prefer the real deal....  (applies to videogames too)
Making a ebook version could lead me to make it in full color, a cheap price and more visiblity, no doubt here

[retroillucid]

Brett McLean, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 9:04 AM, said:

Planning any trips down to Windsor Ontario ??

http://www.windsorst...5218/story.html

1st in Canada

Look awesome solution to me!   ... Thankss for the infos!

Since you're in Windsor, would you be up to help?

[cOLeCoHiTMan]

Yeah.. I'd be up for that... I'll find out when they are actually getting it...
Maybe we can get some press for your book (and ColecoVision) if we are the first people.
Might want to look up that software and make sure everything is formatted correctly.

retroillucid, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 1:08 PM, said:

Brett McLean, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 9:04 AM, said:

Planning any trips down to Windsor Ontario ??

http://www.windsorst...5218/story.html

1st in Canada

Look awesome solution to me!   ... Thankss for the infos!

Since you're in Windsor, would you be up to help?

[retroillucid]

Sweet, thanks Brett!  

Where can I get that espresnet software?

[cOLeCoHiTMan]

good question.. i'll have to visit the library and see if i can ask some questions.

retroillucid, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 1:14 PM, said:

Sweet, thanks Brett!  

Where can I get that espresnet software?

[retroillucid]

Brett McLean, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 1:20 PM, said:

good question.. i'll have to visit the library and see if i can ask some questions.

retroillucid, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 1:14 PM, said:

Sweet, thanks Brett!  

Where can I get that espresnet software?

Okay, thanks

Look pretty easy judging by the video

And since the book writting is pretty much done, having all photos I wanted to included, .... the only big thing left is making a perfect layout .....wich the espressnet soft seem to be for...

I can't wait to let this baby fly on its own! ... I think even if you're only a CV fan, you'll like to read the book since obviously,  there's tons of talks, photos of the early days of the CV and many many infos about it

[cOLeCoHiTMan]

depending on costs... maybe if you could get enough preorders, could get atari2600.com, 4jays.net, coleco.com, or others to put an ad at the end of the book and help bring down price?
most books have a page or 2 at the end of ads for coming books etc.

got a good editor proof reading your grammar/spelling/critiquing?
(not suggesting me.. LOL)

[retroillucid]

Brett McLean, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 1:32 PM, said:

depending on costs... maybe if you could get enough preorders, could get atari2600.com, 4jays.net, coleco.com, or others to put an ad at the end of the book and help bring down price?
most books have a page or 2 at the end of ads for coming books etc.

AtariAge will get an add, since AA let me freely talks and sell my games here
I'll have to talk with Albert so he can provide me a cool add

Not sure I would want other adds, well except maybe for Rmaerz magazine ......

Quote

got a good editor proof reading your grammar/spelling/critiquing?
(not suggesting me.. LOL)

Ikrananka will proof read when I'll complete the writting, wich should be only in a couple of weeks
I'll also ask you to do the same
Since I'm a french Canadian, its obvious that there will be some grammar/spelling to work on   

[cOLeCoHiTMan]

well.. viewing the xerox machine and printing on demand... a bilingual book will be very easy to do!

[retroillucid]

Brett McLean, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 2:00 PM, said:

well.. viewing the xerox machine and printing on demand... a bilingual book will be very easy to do!

Nah, I'll stick to english only

[lumbee74]

Bill_Loguidice, on Fri Apr 6, 2012 12:18 PM, said:

Personally, I prefer ebook reading these days (I presently use an iPad 2) and do most of my book and magazine reading on that. I don't see how that equates in any way to a Website, but then I've always been comfortable embracing change along with the past. It's something I think you should strongly reconsider so your work will be available to more people since again, doing print work is expensive, no way around it... It's your work, though and I'll do my best to support any decision of course, but it's not like you're not creating the digital files anyway and it's not like the ebook experience can't be every bit as good (or better) than the print experience, so I can't quite figure the point of forsaking an obvious option...

I am a firm believer in the ebook. I do just about everything on my iPad and also have the color nook for reading magazines and books also. I think the ebook book would be best, because I like all color books when using my nook or iPad for reading, but no matter what sounds like a great project you have going.

Edited by lumbee74, Fri Apr 6, 2012 7:52 PM.

[NIAD]

Good luck with this tremendous endeavor and I anxiously await further word and updates about it. While the eBook option sounds like a very convenient way to go and the least expensive, there is just something to be said about having an actual book version available.... you know, old-school format. After all, we are talking about a book covering in large part everyone's (at least on this forum) favorite retrogaming system, so why not a physical book format that can be displayed in all it's glory along with the rest of the collection. You can't really display proudly an eBook version, although a version in this format would be a nice secondary option perhaps after selling off your production run of physical books and if it proves to expensive to keep producing.

Edited by NIAD, Fri Apr 6, 2012 8:29 PM.

[cOLeCoHiTMan]

Guys running 1980's video game systems complaining about books being in paper??  ummmm

Give me an e-copy of a book and i'll show you how to convert it to epub, doc, mobi, pdf, etc with one freeware tool! .... let's get some paper copies out there before he decides if he wants to let it loose on the wild wild web...