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Atari's Plato Cartridge question


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#26 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 2, 2018 2:48 AM

Atari distributed Plato and the Learning Phone. Two distinct items, Vincent Wu, designed Atari's Access Software for the PLATO Service Network, he did two revisions I believe. Which is why I asked about this, as I had been to cyber1 after my gopher hole search earlier (I periodically do silly stuff like this). I immediately resurrected this thread, just knowing you can't resist!

:Evil Grin:

I was not let down!

I have had a moment of joy again. Thanks. Now let Plato invasion begin! They've been very busy, and are adding to the system as it progresses.

Just make sure your a teacher and not a student if you want to access everything!


Edited by _The Doctor__, Fri Feb 2, 2018 2:51 AM.


#27 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 1:33 AM

They have responded in the public notes file:

 

pr1.PNG

 

pr2.PNG

 

and I have responded in kind:

 

pr3.PNG

 

-Thom

 

 



#28 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 3:51 AM

https://archives.lib...content&id=7132

I had others, but this is the only one I currently could find at 4:50am

don't know if it will help but it's contact peruse what have you...

This fellow did a few things Atari (LAN) and had a passing interest in PLATO, he has some source code but for what I'm not sure.

http://www.mecc.co/h...ark-rustad.html


Edited by _The Doctor__, Sat Feb 3, 2018 4:05 AM.


#29 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 9:05 AM

pr4.png



#30 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 9:10 AM

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#31 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 9:37 AM

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#32 a8isa1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 11:53 AM

In Altirra 3.00

 

System-->Devices-->Add...

 

Select "850 Interface Module"

 

Click Settings and make sure "Full - SIO Protocol and 6520 R: Handler" is enabled. Click OK.

 

Under 850 Interface Module-->Serial Port-->  click on "(no attached devices)" and add Modem

 

Click Settings.  "Emulate Telnet Protocol" and "Allow outgoing connections" should both be enabled.  Click OK

 

and Click OK again

 

If you haven't already done so select File-->Attach Cartridge and choose the Atari Learning Phone cartridge (PLATO).

 

The cartridge should boot to an amber/greenish screen with the words, "WELCOME TO THE LEARNING PHONE". 

 

If the 850 interface and the simulated modem have been setup you should see "1200 baud".  You can then type "ATDICYBERSERV.ORG 8005" and ENTER.   Typed charcters will echo twice. [EDIT] If it's not setup correctly you will see "Microbit 300 baud"

 

You should see "Press NEXT to begin".   I usually just tap ENTER a few times.

 

Screen will go blank for about a minute before the Cyber1 signon appears.


Edited by a8isa1, Sat Feb 3, 2018 11:56 AM.


#33 16kRAM OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 9:03 PM

I had partial success connecting to cyber1 using my Atari 800 + 850 + The Learning Phone cart (on an Atarimax 8Mbit) + tcper running on a raspberry Pi. 

 

I recently received a cyber1 signon and group and am able to connect to cyber1 successfully using the Linux or Windows PTerm PLATO terminal emulators. Things fall apart for me when on the Atari when, after typing in the group name, you are required to press the SHIFT-STOP key on the PLATO terminal. This key is bound in PTerm as <shift>+<alt>+s or <shift>+<ctrl>+s. On the Atari Learning Phone cart, the key is bound to <shift>+<START>+s. But this doesn't appear to work during my Atari session. One of the other special PLATO terminal keys is the NEXT key. On PTerm it is <alt>+n or <RETURN>. On the Atari it is <START>+n. This *does* work on the Atari. So I'm baffled why I'm unable to successfully send the SHIFT-STOP key sequence. (I'll see if there's a way for me to capture the serial traffic emanating from the Atari).

 

Attached are some photos.

 

Note: You can press the <SELECT> key on the Atari to cycle through different background colors. Gray on my Applecolor composite monitor with the front-panel no-chroma button pressed is very readable.

 

To get this far, I already had a Raspberry Pi (3), 850, some serial cable I made to connect the 850 to a Belkin Serial-to-USB adapter. I use this setup to connect to telnet-enabled BBSs.

 

1. ssh to the raspberry pi

2. On the pi, I run: tcpser -s 1200 -d /dev/ttyUSB0 -i "&K0" -n5555555=cyberserv.org:8005

3. On the Atari, disconnect any disk drives and ensure the 850 is connected and powered on.

4. On the Atari, boot  "The Learning Phone" cartridge. If the R: handler is successfully downloaded from the 850, you should see "1200 baud" message, otherwise it might say "Microbit 300 baud".

6. On the Atari, I need to press <OPTION>+0 (zero) to disable local echo (otherwise double-characters appear).

7. On the Atari, I enter atdt5555555 and press return. (This phone number is registered to the cyber1 server in the tcpser command).

8. A reply from the PLATO service appears: "Press NEXT to begin". Press <START>+n. And so on...

 

Like I said I can't get the SHIFT-STOP key press to be successfully sent/interpreted/whatever.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Atari-PLATO-1.jpg
  • Atari-PLATO-2.jpg

Edited by 16kRAM, Sat Feb 3, 2018 9:09 PM.


#34 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 9:08 PM

Fantastic! 

 

I am helping the cyber1 people who are also looking at the Atari PLATO emulator, and trying to narrow down which terminal type it is requesting, once that's figured out, the changes can be made to cyber1 and Atari's can access the network.

 

I will link to the previous post in the public notesfile.

 

-Thom



#35 16kRAM OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 9:13 PM

After thinking about it a bit, another slightly simpler option to connect is:

 

On the Pi,

 

tcpser -s 1200 -d /dev/ttyUSB0 -i "&K0"

 

And then on the Atari,

 

atdtcyberserv.org:8005



#36 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 9:27 PM

I am so glad that this is being attempted. PLATO is...quite possibly one of the most amazing remote timeshare systems that was ever built, so many far reaching ideas, and I'm glad that some of the original PLATO people decided to make it all run again...and that they're still working on it.

 

-Thom



#37 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 9:53 PM

I can tell you that because of the original terminal's high resolution (512 horizontal pixels), scaling it down to 160 horizontal pixels really put a dent on how it looked...

 
The Learning Phone runs in Graphics 8, which is 320 across, not 160.



#38 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 10:11 PM

 
The Learning Phone runs in Graphics 8, which is 320 across, not 160.

 

Yes, you are quite right. and it's mode F, btw. (sometimes my fingers outrun my brain)

 

-Thom


Edited by tschak909, Sat Feb 3, 2018 10:16 PM.


#39 a8isa1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 3, 2018 10:13 PM

Accessing via a real Atari!   Great news!  Well done 16KRAM!

 

Would someone like to try to hack the Rverter R: handler into the Learning Phone image or make it possible to load that handler from disk? Changing the control byte in the ROM apparently wasn't good enough.

 

I don't own an 850 and won't be getting one any time soon but I do have the 'wifi modem' with the Zimodem firmware in it.



#40 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 2:27 AM

 

Yes, you are quite right. and it's mode F, btw. (sometimes my fingers outrun my brain)

 

Uh, yes, ANTIC Mode F is indeed what graphics mode 8 uses. Very good.



#41 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 2:36 AM

Dude, how is it that you have the uncanny ability to piss people off? Just go away.

 

-Thom



#42 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 2:44 AM

ZylonBane's typical douchebaggery notwithstanding...

 

The Atari client is working, with some slight rendering glitches due to terminal differences, which are being ironed out.

 

ap1.PNG

 

ap2.png

 

-Thom



#43 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 2:58 AM

and thus some long lost online mult-user learning and multiplayer games shall be re-established... :)  Will you be one of those playing to a fault, until the next reset!

Ah those days are returning... I love it when a Necro-Post starts coming together! Thanks for working on this tschak909

Are you modifying this or is it being taken care of on the server end?  Both sides watching the connection and sharing what you see and modifying the terminal server? If you have modified the rom are you posting it? I'll toss it on and Ultimate and try using it via lantronix... Atari standing on it's own. Did your  see if the baud rate is changeable in this image? It might be capable or 2400, or even 4800 with some coaxing....

 

Are you using The Learning Phone or the Plato cart variants?

PLATO 1983 Cartridge white paper labels

https://www.atarimag...latorising.html

https://www.atarimag...4n12/PLATO.html

RX8080    1985 PLATO Learning Phone   Atari


Edited by _The Doctor__, Sun Feb 4, 2018 3:49 AM.


#44 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 3:15 AM

I always wanted them to do 'War Games', Greatings Professor XXXXXXXXXX, do you want to play a game? :) Never happened.... Bet you it could now though!


Edited by _The Doctor__, Sun Feb 4, 2018 3:19 AM.


#45 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 11:02 AM

The work is all being done at the server end by the cyber1 people. Watch the public notes (pbnotes) file, note #105 (Atari PLAT). The cartridge is not being modified in any way, and I am using The Learning Phone cartridge (RX8080)

 

The keyboard mappings don't match up exactly as described, particularly the SHIFT key sequences, as indicated in these notes:

 

pr7.PNG

 

pr8.PNG

 

pr9.PNG

 

-Thom



#46 16kRAM OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 11:54 AM

I was able to connect successfully on a real Atari thanks to Thom and Steve's conversation on PLATO.

 

First thing was to change my flow control setting on my tcpser command line (from "&K0" to "&K1"). And second was to use the SHIFT-SUB key instead of SHIFT-STOP at the "group" signon screen.

 

So amending my instructions from earlier:

 

1. ssh to the raspberry pi

2. On the pi, I run: tcpser -s 1200 -d /dev/ttyUSB0 -i "&K1" -n5555555=cyberserv.org:8005

3. On the Atari, disconnect any disk drives and ensure the 850 is connected and powered on.

4. On the Atari, boot  "The Learning Phone" cartridge. If the R: handler is successfully downloaded from the 850, you should see "1200 baud" message, otherwise it might say "Microbit 300 baud".

6. On the Atari, I need to press <OPTION>+0 (zero) to disable local echo (otherwise double-characters appear).

7. On the Atari, I enter atdt5555555 and press return. (This phone number is registered to the cyber1 server in the tcpser command).

8. A reply from the PLATO service appears: "Press NEXT to begin". Press <START>+n.

9. At the clock screen, enter username and press <START>+n.

10. At the group screen, enter group and press <START>+<shift>+<=>

 

- Michael S.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Atari-PLATO-3.jpg


#47 16kRAM OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 12:05 PM

I was also able to connect to port 5004 (classic mode) but it doesn't change the wayward vectors. Some screens are still a mess.



#48 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 12:21 PM

Nope, you might want to check your connection parameters. "Classic" mode is a special CDC hybrid 6/12 bit BCD encoding that is specific to CDC terminals (the IST series, the Plato PPT series, the Maggie teletype, etc.), and only pterm or real hardware supports this mode.

 

-Thom



#49 16kRAM OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 12:37 PM

Nope, you might want to check your connection parameters. "Classic" mode is a special CDC hybrid 6/12 bit BCD encoding that is specific to CDC terminals (the IST series, the Plato PPT series, the Maggie teletype, etc.), and only pterm or real hardware supports this mode.

 

-Thom

 

Thanks. I'm sure you're right.

 

I connected by entering adtdcyberserv.org:5004 in the cart program, but it might've somehow found my 555-5555 tcpser option that points to 8005.

 

But in the meantime, I was so intrigued by this screenshot of Moria from the PLATO ads. I'm so happy to see it in person.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Atari-PLATO-4.jpg

Edited by 16kRAM, Sun Feb 4, 2018 12:39 PM.


#50 tschak909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 4, 2018 4:54 PM

(pasted from my facebook)

Over the last day, I got to help resurrect a long lost piece of Atari software, connect it to the internet, and use it.

 
PLATO was an online service that operated from 1960 until 2006, and provided cutting edge ideas into the context of creating educational hardware and software for primary, secondary, and university learning environments.
 
In 1981, Atari had partnered with PLATO to produce a cartridge that would allow an Atari computer to connect to PLATO to use its lessons (software).
 
I and a few others have successfully used this cartridge to connect to the one remaining PLATO installation, and use its services, and I just recorded a video demonstrating it (27 mins):





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