Nukey Shay Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 So it only increments when you're standing still for 4.26 seconds in a row, and if it increments 257 times it resets. In the world of Berzerk 4.26 seconds is a long time, I don't think I would have seen keilbaca stand still for that long the entire time I watched the feed. Nope...the frame counter is reset to zero when starting a new board or life...and it will be increasing onward no matter what you do. The game-killing routine goes like this: Skip ahead if the player is not standing still (to figure out how to handle the direction moved) Increase framecounter...skip ahead if it hasn't rolled to zero. Increase attract mode timer...skip ahead if that hasn't rolled to zero. Jump backward and go into "attract mode" (i.e. kill the current game). As mentioned before, the attract mode timer will increase only if you are unlucky enough to be standing still the moment that the frame counter is about to roll. You don't necessarily need to be standing still for an entire 256 frames. The moment it rolls is all that matters to the attract timer. As you may see from the above, the glitch -cannot- happen so long as the player stays in motion...because the rest of the routine is skipped (the frame counter increase is handled elsewhere when skipping ahead). Unfortunately, the attract mode timer is never reset (period)...so it will continue to increase from it's present value whenever this routine is allowed to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynicaster Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 The whole timer glitch is made all the more annoying by the fact that it seems to be a pointless feature to have implemented in the code. Unless I'm missing something, it sounds like the intended purpose of the code was to save televisions from burn-in, in the event that the user unwittingly left the game running for extended periods of time. But if kicking to the "attract mode" is the safety measure of choice, then wouldn't we have a self-correcting problem, making the dedicated routine redundant? What I mean is, the game goes to attract mode automatically at game over, right? So, even if a player amasses the maximum amount of lives (capped by yet another glitch), how long could it possibly take, if the player just walked away, to have all those lives killed off which would bring the game to attract mode anyway? What am I missing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 After the game reset, it seemed to get stuck on a single screen anyways...so yeah, it doesn't seem like much of a screen saver. I guess it would reset again after another 17 min...but this hardly seems like a proper solution to anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 One question.....why were you practically yelling the entire time?? As if the microphone was in the next room?? You from Jersey??? Everything around me was pretty loud, so I wanted to make sure that my voice was heard over the music and the game. Next time it will be a much quieter setup, with direct audio feeds from the atari, and I will have headphones and a mic on. It'll be a lot better the second time around, I promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Can't you just do a little hack to get around the glitch Nukey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Can't you just do a little hack to get around the glitch Nukey? He could, but it then would be a modified game and the score would be disqualified. I wouldn't mind having a cart done up though with the hack installed EDIT: or at the very least, a rom done up, so I can use my harmony cart. Edited April 30, 2012 by keilbaca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 The 2-player hack has both glitches corrected. But any program modification (whether they affect the actual gameplay or not) is strictly forbidden when submitting scores. It's gotta be the original game. So, even if a player amasses the maximum amount of lives (capped by yet another glitch), how long could it possibly take, if the player just walked away, to have all those lives killed off which would bring the game to attract mode anyway? What am I missing here? The problem of a player standing around after all robots are destroyed (or in a safe spot) in variations which do not feature Evil Otto (thus, you can remain onscreen indefinately). That seems to be the whole reason for the attract mode to be increased during gameplay. Otherwise, yeah...the player is wiped out to kick it in anyway.The programmer's goof was not resetting the variable to zero when movement DOES occur. That would have taken a total of 2 bytes of romspace in the "skip over" destination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 There's no evil Otto in 2600 Berzerk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 There's no evil Otto in 2600 Berzerk? Game 1 no Evil Otto Game 3 has Evil Otto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 There's no evil Otto in 2600 Berzerk? Oh come on.. don't tell me you're one of those "only play game #1" people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 There's no evil Otto in 2600 Berzerk? Oh come on.. don't tell me you're one of those "only play game #1" people. No, I was just asking a question. I've tried Berzerk out on MAME and 5200 (JUM52), but not 2600. But mostly I've played Frenzy on ColecoVision (Mugrat) which is better. It's even better than the arcade, frankly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Nukey, can you confirm that the max number of Automazeons possible per level is 7? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Admittedly I don't know any of the back story on the glitches and all that, but when you have a player who is not only fully aware of the glitches, but doing his level best to avoid them, and still have the game glitch out twice, it really makes me wonder what the "verification process" was for the current records. Hmm..... I think he has a different version of the game, in which I need to find. He mentioned (he also took breaks during the run), that after he was done, he let it set for 20 min and then the game glitched out. After 1 million. I thought you knew about the timeout before embarking on this - otherwise I would've posted a msg about it last week when I first saw this thread - sorry. As Nukey mentioned you just need to keep moving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Admittedly I don't know any of the back story on the glitches and all that, but when you have a player who is not only fully aware of the glitches, but doing his level best to avoid them, and still have the game glitch out twice, it really makes me wonder what the "verification process" was for the current records. Hmm..... I think he has a different version of the game, in which I need to find. He mentioned (he also took breaks during the run), that after he was done, he let it set for 20 min and then the game glitched out. After 1 million. I thought you knew about the timeout before embarking on this - otherwise I would've posted a msg about it last week when I first saw this thread - sorry. As Nukey mentioned you just need to keep moving I knew about the glitch. I just didn't know exactly when the counter triggered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Good try, next time you got it! It's just like Rocky.... You are hungry, like Mr T The reigning champ Todd Rogers is Rocky, he has become comfortable and lazy with his records The new blood has the drive to succeed and bring the champ down Eye of the Tiger, you can do it Mr T errr.. I mean Kielbaca 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Now that I understand exactly when it checks, all I have to do is make sure I am moving every 4 seconds and the counter won't trigger. I just hope my hands can hold up constantly moving. After playing for 12 hours, 8 after a rest should be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Now that I understand exactly when it checks, all I have to do is make sure I am moving every 4 seconds and the counter won't trigger. I just hope my hands can hold up constantly moving. After playing for 12 hours, 8 after a rest should be just fine. Todd Rogers said he used a "burger king cup" in his Journey Escape marathon. I would go that route if you have to move every 4 seconds...or just place a painters bucket within range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Roughly 4-1/4 seconds...but you'd need to be Brainiac to keep track that way. Just keep the controller pointed in any direction all the time. That's kind of why I was wondering about TG's stance regarding using a controller cable with up and down twisted together with the ground wire. IMO it's not really a cheat if you need to step away for a moment, because a button controller can do the same thing by setting a brick on it. As long as the controller is registering something, the routine is skipped. Nukey, can you confirm that the max number of Automazeons possible per level is 7? It's 8 according to the disassembly (MAX_ROBOTS)...but I don't play the game often enough to know offhand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I have ran into 8 robot rooms multiple times on the game. Not really a brainiac is needed, being the frame counter resets when you enter a new room. I just count 4 seconds when a new level starts. Usually by time the 8 second mark hits, I'm exiting the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dauber Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 So, kiel, maybe next time you try to beat the record you'll take my Gatorade bottle advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 So, kiel, maybe next time you try to beat the record you'll take my Gatorade bottle advice. Maybe :-p Although to be honest it shouldn't be necessary. If I time every maze right, I could take 17 min of pee breaks and be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esplonky Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Nukey, can you confirm that the max number of Automazeons possible per level is 7? yeah, the Max # is 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Thanks to Youtube, I was able to run a stop watch when the timer starts. The timer resets when you exit a maze, or when you die, it starts when it goes to draw the next maze (identical time when you leave a maze), not when you appear to start playing. Now, the only other question I have is, if you are in the death animation, you happen to be standing still, and it hits the 4 1/4 mark... does it still trigger the counter? Unfortunately I am not familiar enough with Stella to find this out on my own. That is the last piece of the puzzle. If that is the case, that it does count, then every time I killed myself, triggered the counter. Holding right, or delaying the death by the 4 1/4 seconds, would fix this issue. EDIT: And last but certainly not least... most likely retrying the record on July 4th. Edited June 12, 2012 by keilbaca 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Set a breakpoint in Stella's debug mode for the attract mode timer (ram address $87)...that will inform you exactly when it has been incremented while you are experimenting. BTW "standing still" is sort of a bad way to describe it. The timer can only increase if the joystick controller is not being physically moved (regardless of what the onscreen character is doing). Even invalid moves like up+down (which keeps the onscreen character unmoving) will cause the timer routine to abort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 BTW when dying, that part of the program is not being used (so if a death animation is playing, you don't need to worry about moving). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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