54 replies to this topic

[Stephen]

mimo, on Wed May 16, 2012 10:09 AM, said:

Only one of my 3 lcd tvs has s-video, its pretty much a dead format in the UK.

Unfortunately, they have killed it in the USA as well.  I have not seen an s-video connector on any TV for at least 3 years now   But of course we get to keep the piece of shit composite input.

[suspicious_milk]

Stephen, on Wed May 16, 2012 10:46 AM, said:

mimo, on Wed May 16, 2012 10:09 AM, said:

Only one of my 3 lcd tvs has s-video, its pretty much a dead format in the UK.

Unfortunately, they have killed it in the USA as well.  I have not seen an s-video connector on any TV for at least 3 years now   But of course we get to keep the piece of shit composite input.

Several DYNEX LCD TV's ("low end" brand at Best Buy) has S-video.  My son has a 19" Dynex (got it for ~100) with HDMI, SPDIF, RCA, Component, Svideo, SVGA.  The pic quality is good - but the built in speakers are an absolute joke.  I've not hooked up my Atari to it, and mine doesn't have an s-video mod anyway, so not sure how to rate Dynex for 8-bit use.

I use a Westinghouse (no svideo) for my stock XEGS.  It's got some settings that if adjusted make the video look pretty good, but does have some vertical banding.  The banding isn't nearly as bad as some screenshots I've seen from other LCD's - but you will notice.  The white seems to bleed a tad as well.  All in all, the quality is as good as (but different) than a crt, so no real complaints.

[SIO99]

mimo, on Sun May 6, 2012 5:13 AM, said:

For a composite av cable you won't get much better than this
http://amigakit.leam...products_id=890
I use them a lot.
S-video is only a slight improvement , but if your Sony has svid input you could try it.
As for the vga adapter, personally I think they are a waste of money, the chances of getting one that works is really hit and miss. You could spend a small fortune chasing the dream.
You have a perfectly good crt, and Atari looks best on crt imo

I'm surprised that people are still posting on this topic! So, you're saying that this cable designed for the C64 is compatible with my Atari 65XE? I'd have to be 100% sure.

As for various other comments in this topic, I can tell you that the Sony TV has no S video socket.

Some more news is that I've just found some RCA composite video to VGA adaptors on eBay!

[mimo]

Quote

I'm surprised that people are still posting on this topic! So, you're saying that this cable designed for the C64 is compatible with my Atari 65XE? I'd have to be 100% sure.

yes, I use them all the time.

[Stephen]

suspicious_milk, on Wed May 16, 2012 11:39 AM, said:

Several DYNEX LCD TV's ("low end" brand at Best Buy) has S-video.  My son has a 19" Dynex (got it for ~100) with HDMI, SPDIF, RCA, Component, Svideo, SVGA.  The pic quality is good - but the built in speakers are an absolute joke.  I've not hooked up my Atari to it, and mine doesn't have an s-video mod anyway, so not sure how to rate Dynex for 8-bit use.

I use a Westinghouse (no svideo) for my stock XEGS.  It's got some settings that if adjusted make the video look pretty good, but does have some vertical banding.  The banding isn't nearly as bad as some screenshots I've seen from other LCD's - but you will notice.  The white seems to bleed a tad as well.  All in all, the quality is as good as (but different) than a crt, so no real complaints.

About 3 years ago, I got a 22" Dynex which had S-VID.  I use my main A8 on it all the time.  A few weks ago I went back and got a 19" version, and none of the Dynexes had S-VID.

[bbking67]

I managed to scoop a Dvdo iscan v2 for 12 bucks but untested and no power supply... What are the powervspecs for the power brick?

[BillC]

bbking67, on Thu May 17, 2012 9:35 PM, said:

I managed to scoop a Dvdo iscan v2 for 12 bucks but untested and no power supply... What are the powervspecs for the power brick?

I have seen posts saying that the OEM power supply is +6V/5A, but that is a universal power supply also used for their other products which require more power. I think I recall seeing a posting  that said +6V/1A was sufficient for the iScan Plus/Pro models

[atari8warez]

flashjazzcat, on Tue May 8, 2012 5:09 AM, said:

Nice pictures of NICE equipment!

Decadently, I chop and change between CRT and LCD according to my mood (and according to whether or not I need to take photos of the screen). LCD quality varies ALOT depending on the sophistication of the A/D conversion, and for sheer clarity I prefer an analogue display with an analogue machine. It's LCDs which are really fixed-resolution, and how unsightly the upscaling is depends on the display. But really I can't decide which I prefer half the time: LCDs give a smooth picture without scanlines, while CRTs are pin-sharp, luminous and brilliant. The longevity of CRTs is a concern, of course, which is why I bought eight of them.

I agree with you fjc. For the longevity part though, I'd say some of the CRT's are incredible, like my ViewSonic PT775 Professional. Made in 1997 (so it's 15 years old) and works like the first day still, brilliant, sharp, focused (even though it may not look so in the not so sharp photo taken in almost total darkness with a huge F.Stop and 30 seconds exposure) I just can't get rid of it even though it's a 17" behemoth taking half of the desk space (luckily not mine hehe). On the other hand my 20" Samsung 204B power supply gave up the ghost in just about 7 years, luckily it was quickly fixed (by myself)  by replacing a $1 electrolytic cap, but longevity seems to be directly related with the quality of components rather than the type of monitor.


I also keep a 32" Sony Trinitron CRT TV just because it's S-Video In for the Atari but then I have to use my Atari in the bedroom as there is no friggen way I am hauling that TV again. (I did it once to move it to the bedroom and my back was almost broken)

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Edited by atari8warez, Thu May 17, 2012 11:27 PM.

[Faicuai]

bbking67, on Thu May 17, 2012 9:35 PM, said:

I managed to scoop a Dvdo iscan v2 for 12 bucks but untested and no power supply... What are the powervspecs for the power brick?

...I got mine for U.S. $25.00, but NEW (no use), in same circumstances (no power-supply).

It DOES need a +6v DC, 1.5amps power supply (PS connector, towards iScan, has to be female, and "+" at the center of connector).

I actually found a dual +12dc and +5dc 2.0amps switched power-supply (almost unused) from a failed external CD-reader/writer I had from years ago. I checked its output under the Scope and found its dc output PRISTINE, super-clean (which is VERY important for the iScan). The iScan seems to have its own DC-to-DC stage and it handled the +5.1vDC feed pretty well (it was supposed to be +6v DC).

I  have just upgrade my personal setup to Viewsonic VP930b (and iScan+ v2) and sits right NEXT to my 28+ inches Sony TV CRT (the last TV we bought around 2004). I can clearly (and surely) say that, on s-Video, the LCD+iScan clearly SURPASS the color-reproduction and overall detail / precision from my CRT (except from some interlace-dependent trickery/effects, which are minor are rather seldom used, in the big-picture of things).

Once my $40 iScan HD+ arrives, I will finally have a single analog-to-digital stage (10bits) [ conversion + de-interlacing + up-scaling] video solution for the Atari, that will feed my VP930B directly on DVI (and on its NATIVE 1280x1024 resolution), with digital-to-digital control of saturation, tonality, and other key variables... Kiss my big, heavy and electromagnetic-radiating CRT's ass GOOD BYE!


Enjoy!

[bbking67]

I figured that finding a suitable 6V DC adapetr would be a snap... turns out everything I have it 500ma or less.  I have two milk cartons fulkl of old wall-warts and various ac adapetr.  Lots of 5V though... how can I tell if the power is "clean"?  I can test a bunch using a voltmeter to find one that is on the high side of 5V, but I don't have an oscilloscope.  Some of the adapters I have are from old D-Link devices... these look promising because they are new switching supplies and they are 2.0A or 2.5A.

I had actually e-mailed Silicon Image and they said the power supply needed to be 2.3A and 6V... but here some folks are saying 1A is sufficient.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

With just a few parts (LM7806 IC/ 1Nxxx Diode / 2N3055 Transistor / Cap) you can make a linear step-down converter from, let's say, 9-16VDC to 5,63VDC 3A.  No adjusting required.

Using another approach and a few extra parts you can make one with variable output (within limits).

It all depends on your skills.

[suspicious_milk]

Fox-1 / mnx, on Tue May 22, 2012 12:37 PM, said:

With just a few parts (LM7806 IC/ 1Nxxx Diode / 2N3055 Transistor / Cap) you can make a linear step-down converter from, let's say, 9-16VDC to 5,63VDC 3A.  No adjusting required.

Using another approach and a few extra parts you can make one with variable output (within limits).

It all depends on your skills.

Well, from one of us without skill (soldering at least) - - -  I've been told that if you simply remove the RF box from the XEGS it will improve the composite output.  Is this true to your (or anyone else) knowledge, and if so, by removing the RF box would that screw up something else?

[Fox-1 / mnx]

suspicious_milk, on Tue May 22, 2012 12:51 PM, said:

and if so, by removing the RF box would that screw up something else?

I have no idea as I have used my XEGS' as-is (composite) and they looked good as they were.  Removing the RF box could either mean improved (less distorted) composite-out, or no composite-out at all in case it's created by the RF box.

Someone else probably kicks in and gives the right answer.

[mimo]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that if you remove the rf box from an XE you kill the video signal. You can remove the box from an XL though

[Faicuai]

bbking67, on Tue May 22, 2012 8:13 AM, said:

I figured that finding a suitable 6V DC adapetr would be a snap... turns out everything I have it 500ma or less.  I have two milk cartons fulkl of old wall-warts and various ac adapetr.  Lots of 5V though... how can I tell if the power is "clean"?  I can test a bunch using a voltmeter to find one that is on the high side of 5V, but I don't have an oscilloscope.  Some of the adapters I have are from old D-Link devices... these look promising because they are new switching supplies and they are 2.0A or 2.5A.

I had actually e-mailed Silicon Image and they said the power supply needed to be 2.3A and 6V... but here some folks are saying 1A is sufficient.

Answering:

• You need to be able to verify / view the actual DC and AC components of the power-supply output:
  
  • AC-component should be ZERO (as close to it) in either linear or switched units.
    
  • DC-component should be slightly higher on Linear models (as it usually drops under load) and very close to nominal (printed) output levels on switched units.
• Unfortunately, the above is not enough. I have power-supplies that pass the above, and are (still) crooked.
  
• Ideally you will need a scope (I have a Fluke Scopemeter 99B Series II, which I love). Connect ONLY the red-probe on channel A (NOTHING else) and the probe's tip into the "+" terminal of the power supply:
  
  • In linear units (up to 12 vdc), you should only see at <=5 vAC reading @ 60hz, and nothing strange at any other frequency range.
    
  • In switched units (up to 12 vdc), you should see MUCH LOWER readings <1.5 vAC @ 60hz (my unit reads below 1vAC on this particular test).
• Without a Scope, you would need an analog-audio device (with a speaker) that could be powered at the nominal voltage of your P/S:
  
  • Once plugged and turned-on (like a little AM/FM radio, for instance), you should NEVER hear any strange or loud "hum" or "fixed-pattern" noise while listening to audio-tracks or transmission with silence-gaps on them. If it is there, it should be MINIMAL or negligible.
    
  • With this process, I discovered (prior to getting my Fluke) a severly-faulty P/S that would have easily killed my CableModem, had I let it work for longer.

2.0amps @ 6.0v  is enough. IT IS PRINTED in the back of the iScan.

Enjoy!

[flashjazzcat]

mimo, on Tue May 22, 2012 2:07 PM, said:

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that if you remove the rf box from an XE you kill the video signal. You can remove the box from an XL though

You'll kill the composite video signal, IIRC, since it's generated inside the RF box. Everything else remains intact (i.e. Y/C).

[suspicious_milk]

flashjazzcat, on Wed May 23, 2012 12:57 AM, said:

mimo, on Tue May 22, 2012 2:07 PM, said:

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that if you remove the rf box from an XE you kill the video signal. You can remove the box from an XL though

You'll kill the composite video signal, IIRC, since it's generated inside the RF box. Everything else remains intact (i.e. Y/C).

Bummer.  I probably got it mixed up with 800xl then...

[bbking67]

Well I received my "as-is" DVDO iScan that I bought on ebay for a mere $12.  I found that my wife iphone dock (a Logitech) has a 6V 2.0Amp adapter, so I swiped that and lo and behold the iScan works!  An excellent snag.

However, it is the original iScan (model MM102A, not the v2 as mentioned in the post (my mistake).  In RGB mode, the iscan works reasonably well with the NES, but with the Atari 130XE it display vertical bands throughout the image--completely unusable.  I'm disappointed for sure!  I might try to snag a v2 if I can get one for $50 or less.

The iScan I did get, once I get a suitable p.s. will be useful for me with other systems, so I'm still happy with it.  Is it possible that a different power supply will yield different results?

/bbking67

Edited by bbking67, Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:45 PM.

[Faicuai]

bbking67, on Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:44 PM, said:

(...)

However, it is the original iScan (model MM102A, not the v2 as mentioned in the post (my mistake). In RGB mode, the iscan works reasonably well with the NES, but with the Atari 130XE it display vertical bands throughout the image--completely unusable. I'm disappointed for sure! I might try to snag a v2 if I can get one for $50 or less.
(...)

Howdy!

Well, I have to say that $12 is a f-steal, considering that my piece-of-junk Chinese svideo-to-RGB converter cost me almost $20.00

A few comments about the iScans:

1. My unit is the "DVDO iSCAN V2+" (is two notches above yours).
2. The V2+ is based on a SAMSUNG multi-purpose/format video decoder, whereas only the V2 PRO is based on a better Philips decoder (can't tell yours).
3. My V2+ DOES NOT decode the COMPOSITE (RCA) output from the Atari, properly (shows acute vertical banding).
4. My V2+ DOES NICELY decode the s-Video output from the Atari (clean, stable and colorful image).
5. My V2+ runs on a special "film/video/still" de-interlacing mode, that cannot be biased to either modes:

• The main pro here is NICE and dependable de-interlacing, even with fast-moving objects and changes of color/luminance.
  
• The main con here is tad-lower sharpness/character clarity on text-modes. However, if you run a good LCD monitor (like my VP191b and VP930b), its analog-based RGB Sharpness function will allow you substantially improve character clarity (as well as everything else).

6. I have recently upgraded to a DVDO iScan HD+ (approx. $40):

• It's firmware-upgradeable: I loaded the latest version reported bu DVDO/Silicon Image (albeit a bit older, already).
  
• It is much larger than my v2+ for my mini-desk, and as large as my iScan VP50pro).
  
• It is robust, very well built and a HELLUVA more powerful than my V2+.
  
• Superb scaling (almost any resolution), + digital-to-digital sharpening, contrast, brightness, saturation, etc.
  
• Only ONE analog-to-digital conversion on its path, because it outputs on DVI-port (even with HDCP if your LCD requires HDCP-o-DVI !)
  
• PERFECT decoding of either sVideo or RCA-composite(+artifacts) inputs.
  
• It perfectly and smoothly displays the image of FlickerTerm (flicker is negligible, when compared to V2+).
  
• De-interlacing bias can be controlled (e.g. video-source, 2:2/3:2 pull-downs or full auto). This means I get best of both worlds (clear/sharp text and dependable de-interlacing).
  
• I can switch, real-time, to any input (RCA or Composite) via control-remote, which is great for IMMEDIATELY handling older games that depend on artifacting.
  
• COMPLETE control of H & V zoom, source aspect ratio, and mapping of DISPLAY and SCREEN aspect ratios.
  
• It memorizes most settings PER input, and also remembers different screen profiles (e.g. for showing full-scan screen of Atari with DMA artifacts, or just recommended field, and all of it with CORRECT aspect ratio).

All in all, I believe you need a Super-Adaptive 2D or 3D comb-filter to properly extract the composite output of the Atari. Therefore:

1. If you are going to stick to s-Video, my V2+ will do JUST FINE, and I can sell it (if you prefer it).
2. If you still prefer a smaller footprint, but absolutely need to work with RCA-composite, then the iScan DVDO *PRO* should work (it as a super-adaptive 2D comb-filter, powered by the better Phillips multi-format video-decoder). These come at your price-range on Ebay.
3. If you want minimal-compromise, then wait and snatch an iScan HD or iScan HD+ (mine), at a steal-price (like I did).

Enjoy!

[bbking67]

Thanks for the detailed response!  You are giving me hope because I have yet to try svideo from the atari.  It might work same as yours.

Coincidentally, I also bought an hd model, mm601a, so I may use it on my home theater when it comes in.  Is that the model you have?

[Faicuai]

bbking67, on Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:29 PM, said:

Thanks for the detailed response!  You are giving me hope because I have yet to try svideo from the atari.  It might work same as yours.

Coincidentally, I also bought an hd model, mm601a, so I may use it on my home theater when it comes in.  Is that the model you have?

..On s-video, you should not have issues.

...And yes, yours is the iScan HD (mine is the iScan HD+, which basically adds HDCP-over-DVI capability and minor differences). They are pretty much equivalent, and it should do very, very well on your HomeTheater, because it outputs on DVI, and it is very easy to adapt DVI to HDMI, for instance).

If you ever run into Qs. with the iScan HD, let me know, as I have already spent a good deal of time on its tuning with my 800XLs, in both sVideo and composite outputs.

Enjoy!

[bbking67]

Faicuai, on Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:26 PM, said:

bbking67, on Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:29 PM, said:

Thanks for the detailed response!  You are giving me hope because I have yet to try svideo from the atari.  It might work same as yours.

Coincidentally, I also bought an hd model, mm601a, so I may use it on my home theater when it comes in.  Is that the model you have?

..On s-video, you should not have issues.

...And yes, yours is the iScan HD (mine is the iScan HD+, which basically adds HDCP-over-DVI capability and minor differences). They are pretty much equivalent, and it should do very, very well on your HomeTheater, because it outputs on DVI, and it is very easy to adapt DVI to HDMI, for instance).

If you ever run into Qs. with the iScan HD, let me know, as I have already spent a good deal of time on its tuning with my 800XLs, in both sVideo and composite outputs.

Enjoy!

Does the RS-232 interface just use a straight cable to program?  Or is it a crossed cable?  in any case I am very anxious... I paid $45 + $7 shipping for the iScan HD, which is pretty awesome I think (not as good as yours!), considering other listing are asking hundreds of dollars.

Now I have to build or buy an s-video cable.

I already have some DVI-HDMI adapters, and I have a belkin 6 ft cable that went from HDMI to DVI (maybe it will work the other way too?).  If these are all one direction, I may have to buy a proper cable/adapter.  I tried the cable on my DVI home theater pc and it would not work with my HDMI input on the TV.  Details...

/bbking67

[Faicuai]

bbking67, on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:25 AM, said:

Does the RS-232 interface just use a straight cable to program?  Or is it a crossed cable?  i

(...) paid $45 + $7 shipping for the iScan HD, which is pretty awesome I think (not as good as yours!) (...)

(...) Now I have to build or buy an s-video cable.

(...) I have a belkin 6 ft cable that went from HDMI to DVI (maybe it will work the other way too?). (...)

To your points (sorry for the delay, but I am swamped at work):

1. Absolutely, $45 for the iScan HD is a f-steal, from any angle you look at it. I have seen them listed for U.S. $250 to $650, easily.
2. You will need a STRAIGHT RS232 "serial-extension cable" (small connector, D-sub DB9, MALE to FEMALE). Should be around $10-$15, max.
3. You would prefer a computer / laptop that has a direct DB9 serial port, as well. Your PC should be MALE, and the iScan will be FEMALE.
4. Download the firmware from DVDO, and follow carefully the instructions (you will need their Terminal-SW, which they provide for you at their site).
5. All instructions are there, in DVDO site (the upgrade process is actually very simple, it just looks long, because it is pretty well documented, that's all).
6. You need a high-quality sVideo cable. DO NOT use a chicken-shit, woobly/soft cable, as you may have to route it close to AC/DC power-cables, as well as speakers, etc.).
7. My cable has thick shielding (it is a sVideo+RCA+L+R cable, linearly molded and joint, modified in one end to fit the Atari with gold-plated pins on the DIN connector, and on the video-processor side, it directly breaks out with all analog audio+video connectors).A
8. A slight impedance mismatch is inevitable when modifiyin one end of the cable, in order to fit the Atari's DIN connector.
9. Even though DVI and HDMI are very, very close to each other, you should make sure your cable is (DVI => HMDI) or (DVI <=> HDMI).

Start working on your sVideo cable, ASAP, and let me know when your iScan arrives.

[SIO99]

Thanks for all the advice on this topic! I thought I should let you all know that after some delay thinking about it, I recently got a monitor lead with a SCART plug from eBay by a seller called Retro Computer Shack. Their website www.retrocomputershack.com is still under construction, though. This lead was advertised as for the Commodore 64 (PUKE PUKE), but I checked with them before buying that it would work with the Atari 65XE. I can confirm that it's working with a Matsui TV I've just started using for the time being, because it's less bulky than the Sony I mentioned earlier. I chose a SCART lead because the RCA sockets are on the front of the Sony and SCART means that only one plug needs to be connected to the TV.

[bbking67]

Well Faicuai I finally got my iScan HD today (drove to the USA to get it).  he unit looks pretty good, but the seller sold it to me with a 12V 1.5A ac adapter (some cheap thing).  Of course the unit uses a 6V adapter like the other iScan units, but the current requirement is higher: 5A.  I have e-mailed the seller, but have yet to receive a response.  The seller is a closeout dealer, so the chances of having the proper adapter are slim.

There is another seller with what looks like factory adapters for the iScan:

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 120873023134

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 140745884920

Can you check if these are the same as yours?  If the seller is in UK, can I use the adapter here in North America?  Obviously I would have to supply the little plug extension (I have soem old laptop power packs that look like they have the right end).  If the model number matches up I should be okay... if it just isn't going to work I'll keep looking.

There is also this one, which is 7A (obviously not made for the iScan, but hopefully of good quality):

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 220804655954

Obviously I'm disappointed, but all will be forgiven if the thing works!

/bbking67