Wolfenstein 3D

[sh3-rg]

"To commemorate Wolfenstein 3D's 20th anniversary, id Software co-founder John Carmack provides director's commentary for the game." - mentions Jaguar quite a few times, worth a watch.

 

http://youtu.be/amDtAPHH-zE

Edited May 10, 2012 by sh3-rg

[rush6432]

Talked with him VERY briefly about the source code to this game... it exists but he is quite busy and doesnt know exactly where at the moment. Was written mostly in C and a little asm from what i was told.

Edited May 10, 2012 by rush6432

[Asaki]

I have the source code to the Mac version if anyone is interested, it shares a lot of code with the Jag and SNES version.

[rush6432]

Is there jag specific code in the mac version there that is used or set only if the code is compiled with a flag set for the jaguar/snes version?

[Jagman]

after watching that.. makes me really want to play through Jag Wolf 3D again.. absolutely love that version.. cool to see Carmack agree

[BillyHW]

The Jag versions of Doom and Wolfenstein were the best.

[Jagman]

I would say Jag Wolf 3D was the best for sure, only the 3DO version was close due to the extra levels and music.. but I still think the Jag one looks and plays a little nicer.

 

As far as Doom, that's more debatable. The Jag version is certainly ONE of the best.. PC version is still better, but as far as consoles, PS1 gives it a good run. All other console versions though (SNES, Saturn, 3DO, 32X) versions are pretty terrible in comparison.

[JagChris]

Unfortunately the Jaguar version does not have the 'enemies that can be seen from different angles.' Chilly Willy mentioned something about these differences saying that all derivatives of the Mac port of Wolf3d have the forward facing enemies which I believe he speculated the Jaguar version was derived from.

[JagChris]

Its interesting that he claims the Jaguar version is his favorite version.

[Asaki]

Is there jag specific code in the mac version there that is used or set only if the code is compiled with a flag set for the jaguar/snes version?

 

No, just you can tell the Jag code was used as a base. I skimmed through here and there, and there are references to "Jaguar" and "SNES" in the comments and things like that, "Burger" Bill/Becky just reworked it all.

 

The Jag versions of Doom and Wolfenstein were the best.

 

Best console ports, I think you mean? It's cool to see all the little (and big) revisions they did to the games, but they're much more cut down than the original PC versions, especially Wolf.

[Austin]

Best console ports, I think you mean? It's cool to see all the little (and big) revisions they did to the games, but they're much more cut down than the original PC versions, especially Wolf.

 

Wolf had a lot of stages and portions to stages missing, but it made up for it with greatly enhanced visuals, new weapons, reworked music and sounds, as well as (if I remember correctly), some elements from Spear of Destiny (the original follow-up) included. Some might even see this as being superior to the PC original, depending on how you look at it. Can't say the same for DOOM, unfortunately.

[pce_collector]

The Jag version is my favorite. It's smooth, fast, and plays quite nicely with the Jaguar controller.

[+madman]

Wow, 20 years already. I still remember downloading that from a BBS and being completely blown away by it on what I think was my 386 at the time.

[wozencl]

Jonn Carmack is such a legend! He always comes across as down to earth and as such a friendly, normal person - plus a very, very clever one at that.

 

Always loved Wolf 3D on the Jag but having played it on the PC (Shareware first chapter?) first I think that's still my favourite.

[Asaki]

Some might even see this as being superior to the PC original...

 

I see it as being more of a sequel than an actual port. I still like the game, but all of the things they changed makes it feel like a completely different game.

[JagChris]

Did Carmack say that DSP trees are faster than Raycasting?

[GroovyBee]

I think you mean BSP which stands for Binary Space Partition.

[JagChris]

I think you mean BSP which stands for Binary Space Partition.

 

yep my bad. I know nothing about graphics yet. I knew it was SP something. But I think i got it confused with Digital Signal Processor or something.

[Asaki]

Yeah, BSP, which is what DOOM, Quake, and I think the Jag version of Wolf use. A lot of games that derive from the Quake engine(s), like CoD and anything by Valve, still use BSP too.

 

I finally watched the video and I thought it was funny what he said about only testing certain levels over and over, and never actually playing the whole game. I do that with a lot of projects I've worked on too...heck, I've never even played Nexuiz... ¬_¬

[JagChris]

Yeah, BSP, which is what DOOM, Quake, and I think the Jag version of Wolf use. A lot of games that derive from the Quake engine(s), like CoD and anything by Valve, still use BSP too.

 

I finally watched the video and I thought it was funny what he said about only testing certain levels over and over, and never actually playing the whole game. I do that with a lot of projects I've worked on too...heck, I've never even played Nexuiz... ¬_¬

 

Thanks. And its a faster technique than raycasting?

[Asaki]

Carmack is a heck of a lot smarter than me, so I'm just going to take his word for it.

[GroovyBee]

For developer types Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book has some interesting insights into all sorts of algorithms. Michael was the co-author on Quake. The book is long out of print but I'm pretty sure it can be found as a *.PDF on the web.

[JagChris]

For developer types Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book has some interesting insights into all sorts of algorithms. Michael was the co-author on Quake. The book is long out of print but I'm pretty sure it can be found as a *.PDF on the web.

 

yep

 

http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/graphics-programming-and-theory/graphics-programming-black-book-r1698

[onlysublime]

yeah, the Jag version of Wolfenstein was amazing. When I saw the updated graphics with new guns, richer colors, and the insane framerate, I was in awe. The PC looked archaic with its lego block guns. I still can't believe the delusional 3DO people who thought the 3DO version was the best. It's only good in that that version had more levels. But it wasn't a richer experience.

 

Doom on the Jag was great but it was definitely not near the PC version. But then again, like Carmack said back in the day, the performance he got out of a $200 Jag matched what would cost thousands of dollars for a PC. I know my 386SX PC that cost $2500 couldn't run Doom as well as the Jag. Though my 486 kicked ass. I just wish the network code was debugged. My friend and I were so excited to play networked Doom only to have it crash out every couple of minutes.

[Austin]

I still can't believe the delusional 3DO people who thought the 3DO version was the best. It's only good in that that version had more levels. But it wasn't a richer experience.

 

That's debatable. Both versions have their perks. Personally, I prefer the 3DO version over the Jag one due to the upgraded sound effects, the new soundtrack, and the individual left and right strafe keys via the shoulder buttons (that makes a huge difference in itself). The enemies also don't act quite as much like they are on speed when you play at the highest difficulty setting, haha. The framerate isn't as good, but it plays brisk and doesn't feel slightly slippery like turning can be in the Jag version at times.

 

Keep in mind that's not to downplay the Jaguar version in any way--it's a fantastic game, and one of my favorite Jag games. There are some things that I feel make the 3DO version a slightly more enjoyable game though.