Big Five - Activator Cart

[labrat]

 

I can't see inside much. The cart would have to be disassembled. I'd hate to ruin the label, especially since it's in such good shape. Curiosity may get the better of me though...

 

 

Some carts are just held together w/ friction pins (I doubt that's what they are actually called). At any rate, the two halves just fit snugly. Try prying apart at the PCB end at the corners versus in the middle, and it may be obvious if there is a central screw under that label. If not, the two halves may slide apart.

[+MrFish]

I can't see inside much. The cart would have to be disassembled. I'd hate to ruin the label, especially since it's in such good shape. Curiosity may get the better of me though...

 

 

Some carts are just held together w/ friction pins (I doubt that's what they are actually called). At any rate, the two halves just fit snugly. Try prying apart at the PCB end at the corners versus in the middle, and it may be obvious if there is a central screw under that label. If not, the two halves may slide apart.

 

I tried what you suggested and it actually does come open part way on the PCB end. It seems like there's a screw in the center though, and I can feel the depression for it under the label.

 

I can see inside a little, but only enough to see that there are two chips that look to be socketed.

[+MrFish]

I was able to get the shell open. It wasn't as difficult to remove the label as I thought it might be, with the help of a hair-dryer and some careful prying. The shell still wouldn't come all the way open, as the two pins at the back are locked. So, I had to pry it open as much as I could, without breaking it, and pull the ROM/PCB out through the opening.

 

Nothing really interesting inside, other than the ROM being the UV erasable type. It is an 8K ROM chip. Maybe sending the ROM dump and the information obtained about what the code does to Bill Hogue would help him remember what it's purpose was (or just give him a link to this thread). Mimo?

 

I removed the ROM to clean the contacts and make sure it's well seated -- to see if it had any effect on it's functioning or the output of a dump. No difference in functioning, and the dumps were identical using a file compare.

 

 

[Bryan]

Well.. that answers the bankswitching question. There must be some custom hardware too. Did you get any 800XL's in the lot?

[+MrFish]

Well.. that answers the bankswitching question. There must be some custom hardware too. Did you get any 800XL's in the lot?

 

Yes I did. I can't remember if I tried the cart in that machine or not. I'm pretty sure I already opened it up to look for any upgrades. I'll take another look at it today.

[Bryan]

See if the OS ROM is stock. My hypothesis is that the cartridge is used to load a custom program (or possibly an OS image) into a modified machine. A custom OS ROM could look for the scrambled data and boot normally if it's not in RAM. If it is in RAM it could de-scramble it and use it to load a game image from disk. This could make it possible to load beta-test versions of software without ever getting a "normal" game image.

 

The reason for the cartridge could be that the de-scrambling code would be too big to integrate into a replacement OS or it might need to change. The fact that the data is loaded into very low memory probably means it's going to be moved into place by the next routine that accesses it. Who knows...

[+MrFish]

I opened up the 800XL. I don't see anything special about it. The ROM is a standard 800XL ROM. The cartridge does nothing different in the 800XL than it did in my 130XE, including not showing any disk access at boot time. Nice clean, fully socketed 800XL though...

[+orpheuswaking]

I still say wwe take the question to Bounty Bob himself..

[+MrFish]

I still say wwe take the question to Bounty Bob himself..

 

Isn't Bounty Bob a deaf/mute?

[Godzilla]

could it be missing a chip on the left half in that picture?

[Rybags]

Such carts are pretty common - the same board can be used for 8/16K carts with the RD4 line inactive on 8K ones.

 

Even if it was a 16K Rom, the lower part is never accessed or called.

[+orpheuswaking]

I still say wwe take the question to Bounty Bob himself..

 

Isn't Bounty Bob a deaf/mute?

 

Yes but Bill Hogue can communicate with him

 

the big five website hasn't been updated since 2007... but you could try at billh@bigfivesoftware.com

[+MrFish]

I still say wwe take the question to Bounty Bob himself..

 

Isn't Bounty Bob a deaf/mute?

 

Yes but Bill Hogue can communicate with him

 

the big five website hasn't been updated since 2007... but you could try at billh@bigfivesoftware.com

 

Yea he can get BB to animate himself too.

 

Mimo sent him a message when I had just posted a cart pic, but maybe I'll gather some of the new information here with the other pics I've taken and send them to him to see if he has anything more to say on the subject. At this point he's about the only one capable of taking us beyond speculation.

[mimo]

I'll pm you his email later. I did link Bill to this thread but have no idea if he is interested in following it.

One thought that I had was could the cart have something to do with the porting of the 5200 version?

[+MrFish]

I'll pm you his email later. I did link Bill to this thread but have no idea if he is interested in following it.

 

Thanks. Yea, it's not nearly as interesting as a proto or something, so he may not be following.

[+MrFish]

After a year of having this sit in a drawer forgotten -- due to lack of free time -- I finally stumbled upon it again some weeks back and thought I should really take some time to contact Bill Hogue, to see if he could remember anything more about it and possibly help figure out it's purpose. After a couple of emails, and looking back at some of the info in this thread, the mystery has been solved. Gary you were 100% right in your final assessment of the dump. This cartridge is used by hot-swapping BBSB in after the machine boots with the Activator Cartridge. It's purpose is simple: it activates the 61,800 code that allows different keys to be used for "cheating". Bill says he most likely created it to allow a reviewer to cheat without Big Five having to give out the actual code. He says Big Five was highly protective of the codes back then, and this was his way of insuring the codes would not leak out to the public.

 

Anyone who wants to try it out can use Atari800Win PLus. Altirra won't work because it apparently performs a ColdStart after any cartridge is inserted (or maybe for some other technical reason that I'm not aware of).

 

[+MrFish]

Here's a dump of the cartridge in .CAR format:

 

Big Five Activator Cartridge - BBSB.zip

Edited November 12, 2013 by MrFish

[Tempest]

After a year of having this sit in a drawer forgotten -- due to lack of free time -- I finally stumbled upon it again some weeks back and thought I should really take some time to contact Bill Hogue, to see if he could remember anything more about it and possibly help figure out it's purpose. After a couple of emails, and looking back at some of the info in this thread, the mystery has been solved. Gary you were 100% right in your final assessment of the dump. This cartridge is used by hot-swapping BBSB in after the machine boots with the Activator Cartridge. It's purpose is simple: it activates the 61,800 code that allows different keys to be used for "cheating". Bill says he most likely created it to allow a reviewer to cheat without Big Five having to give out the actual code. He says Big Five was highly protective of the codes back then, and this was his way of insuring the codes would not leak out to the public.

 

Anyone who wants to try it out can use Atari800Win PLus. Altirra won't work because it apparently performs a ColdStart after any cartridge is inserted (or maybe for some other technical reason that I'm not aware of).

 

Weird. You mean it's basically a boot cartridge that activates some cheat codes in BBSB? So it's like a Game Genie of sorts. What are the codes it activates and are they any different than the ones you can type in the codes for? I didn't think any of them did anything interesting, just stupid joke stuff.

[+MrFish]

Weird. You mean it's basically a boot cartridge that activates some cheat codes in BBSB? So it's like a Game Genie of sorts. What are the codes it activates and are they any different than the ones you can type in the codes for? I didn't think any of them did anything interesting, just stupid joke stuff.

 

Yes, that's what it does. Using the cartridge gives you access to the following keys that allow you to do as noted:

 

Q: Next level

A: Previous level

Z: Restart level

F: Bounty Bob can move freely and can not die. Floats

To go to a certain level type level number: 06, 11, etc.

 

 

It's basically the equivalent of doing the following from the "Options" menu within the game:

 

Set the code in the option menu on 61,800. Then press 'F' plus <OPTION>

Edited November 12, 2013 by MrFish

[Tempest]

 

Yes, that's what it does. Using the cartridge gives you access to the following keys that allow you to do as noted:

 

Q: Next level

A: Previous level

Z: Restart level

F: Bounty Bob can move freely and can not die. Floats

To go to a certain level type level number: 06, 11, etc.

 

 

It's basically the equivalent of doing the following from the "Options" menu within the game:

 

Set the code in the option menu on 61,800. Then press 'F' plus

Wow, how did I never know about that? It would have made beating the game MUCH easier.

[+MrFish]

Weird. You mean it's basically a boot cartridge that activates some cheat codes in BBSB? So it's like a Game Genie of sorts. What are the codes it activates and are they any different than the ones you can type in the codes for? I didn't think any of them did anything interesting, just stupid joke stuff.

 

The stupid joke codes are all of these:

 

5 - "YOU REALLY DIDN'T THINK THAT WOULD DO ANYTHING DID YOU?"

6 - "TAKE BACK 1 KADAM TO HONOR THE HEBREW GOD WHOSE CARTRIDGE THIS IS!"

49 - "HEY! HOW DID YOU KNOW THE NUMBER OF THE FIRE STATION NEAR MY HOUSE?"

69 - "GEEZ! WE KNOW WHERE YOUR MIND IS!"

100 - "BARBER NED SAYS THAT WILL BE TWENTY DOLLARS, PLEASE!"

213 - "WRONG AREA CODE!"

666 - "HOW DARE YOU INPUT THAT NUMBER INTO THIS GAME!"

818 - "TRY HARDER."

782 - "HA HA!"

1000 – “ROM VERSION 1.000” (This code is not in the 5200 version)

2049 - "C'MON!! TRY HARDER"

6861 - "YOU ACTUALLY TRIED THAT?"

1961 - "THE MAKERS OF THIS GAME THINK IT WAS A VERY GOOD YEAR!"

2827 - "CLEVER! BUT STILL WRONG!"

5495 - "STEAL AT ANY PRICE"

9161 - "BILL HOGUE'S BIRTHDAY! DON'T FORGET TO SEND PRESENTS"

16309 - "RELIANT'S PREFIX CODE! HERE IT COMES, KHAN!"

 

After entering code 100, start a game and you'll notice that Bob is missing his hat and is bald.

 

 

and there are also these:

 

Level warps: #1 – get the flower pot, and then hold down 1 and press START; #2 – kill all the mutants, and then hold down 3 and press START; #3 – get the goblet, and then hold down 4 and press START; #5 – get the teapot, and then hold down 8 and press START; #10 – get the pitch fork, and then hold down 5 and press START; #16 – set tube #1 to the left, get the pie, and then hold down 9 and press START.

[+MrFish]

Wow, how did I never know about that? It would have made beating the game MUCH easier.

 

They're all pretty common knowledge at this point. There is also a level skipping code for Miner 2049'er.

Edited November 12, 2013 by MrFish

[Tempest]

 

They're all pretty common knowledge at this point. There is also a level skipping code for Miner 2049'er.

That I knew even back in the day. I guess I never played around with BBSB too much, I find it too frustrating. Specifically I don't like the '3D' look of the platforms, it makes it too hard to know where the edge is. I wonder if someone could hack them to look like the original miner platforms?

[+MrFish]

That I knew even back in the day. I guess I never played around with BBSB too much, I find it too frustrating. Specifically I don't like the '3D' look of the platforms, it makes it too hard to know where the edge is. I wonder if someone could hack them to look like the original miner platforms?

 

The cool thing about BBSB though, is that you can control jumping more. In Miner you either jumped straight up or at a set arc when you jumped left or right. BBSB was a big improvement in that area, because you could jump straight up and then go left or right at any time on your way down.

[+MrFish]

I just checked it out and the Activator Cart will also work in Atari800MacX.

 

One note about using BBSB in Atari800MacX and Atari800Win PLus (whether using in conjunction with the Activator Cart or not), is that the utility hoist doesn't function. Apparently issues with running BBSB 100% in these two emulators was never completely worked out.