28 replies to this topic

[BillyHW]

What year (or years) do you think the gap between arcade and console games was the greatest?

(And by "console" I mean something that was mass-market affordable, so Neo Geo and 3D0 don't count.  No $600 systems.)

[Seob]

the first years of the arcade, since there where no consoles.

[Rex Dart]

I'd say 1988, 1989.  There were some amazing pseudo-3D games out there that didn't get proper home versions until the 32-bit era of home consoles (Saturn & the like).

[FujiSkunk]

I agree with Rex.  For just about every generation the home consoles were actually pretty close to what you could see in the arcades, and in some cases, like with the Nintendo Vs. system or Sega's NAOMI hardware, they were exactly what you could see in the arcade.  But the late '80s arcade games of companies like Sega and Atari Games eclipsed the 16-bit era even before it started.

There was a pretty wide gap in the mid '90s as well, made most obvious by PlayStation's flagship Ridge Racer, but I don't think it was quite as bad.

Edited by FujiSkunk, Mon May 21, 2012 3:16 PM.

[Eltigro]

It started kind of close, then widened, and now has closed again.  At first with games like Pong, the home versions were pretty close.  It's not that difficult to put up three moving rectangles on a screen.  Then they started to widen.  Look at Pac-Man compared to the home versions of the time.  I think they probably got about as far apart as possible in the late 80's to early 90's.  This is the NES/SMS/7800 to the early Genesis/TG-16/SNES generations.  Then there started to be some closing as home systems started catching up.  Systems like the NEO GEO and Dreamcast were really pretty close to the SNK and Sega arcade boards of the time (with the NEO GEO being the exact same as the arcade board).  And now, the PS3 and XBox 360 versions are pretty much indistinguishable from the arcade versions.

[mbd30]

"I think they probably got about as far apart as possible in the late 80's to early 90's. This is the NES/SMS/7800 to the early Genesis/TG-16/SNES generations. Then there started to be some closing as home systems started catching up."

The gap narrowed in the 16-bit era. Eg. "Street Fighter 2" was the hot game in the arcades, and the SNES version was damned close. One of the early selling points of the Sega Genesis was that you could play fairly accurate renditions of Sega arcade hits at home.

The arrival of the Dreamcast closed the gap... arcade-perfect "Hydro Thunder", an improved "Soul Calibur", etc.

[Nintendo Penguin]

Early to mid 1980s... look at the 2600 counterparts of their Arcade brethren... they don't even compare.

[The Usotsuki]

That said, the Genesis port had *one* thing the SNES ports lacked, until SSF2...the intro. >

[Rybags]

Significant gaps, probably:

early 1980s before Atari 5200 and Colecovision
late 1980s before Megadrive/Genesis and SNES
early 1990s before Jaguar, Saturn, PS1
late 1990s/early 2000s before PS1, XBox.

In terms of the quality of games, not necessarily the ratio of overall specifications I'd almost definately say the late 1980s.

[BillyHW]

Just a few thoughts:

Ghosts'n Goblins in 1985 was a pretty big leap forward in the arcades, and it *never* got home port that was even close.  The home ports of Double Dragon arcade (1987) were pretty downgraded from the arcade.  Same with the Guantlets. The arcade shooters of the second half of the 80s did not get equivalent ports until the 16-bit era.

Yet, Wonder Boy arcade (1986) had a superb home port for the SMS soon after.

When Ghouls'n Ghosts was released in 1988, there was nothing even close possible on home systems until Mega Drive and SNES were released in the following years.  Same with Final Fight.


The home port of Street Fighter II for SNES, was pretty awesome for the time, and close to the arcade.

And by "gap" I think we can mean two different things.  1.  The difference in quality at any specific point in time between arcade and home games;  or 2.  The gap in time between arcade games and nearly equivalent home ports.

[BillyHW]

Nintendo Penguin, on Tue May 22, 2012 8:50 AM, said:

Early to mid 1980s... look at the 2600 counterparts of their Arcade brethren... they don't even compare.

Yeah, Atari 2600 does Space Invaders okay, but as soon as the Pac-Mans and Donkey Kongs came out in the arcades, there was a huge gap 1980-1982 until ColecoVision was released.

[Cynicaster]

Rybags, on Tue May 22, 2012 9:35 AM, said:

In terms of the quality of games, not necessarily the ratio of overall specifications I'd almost definately say the late 1980s.

But quality is largely subjective.  Sure, at the time, when I was a 12-13 year old kid wandering wide-eyed through the arcades, "quality of game" might as well have been synonymous with "graphics and sound"; and in that sense, the gap was enormous.  For example, the late 8-bit console days (i.e. pre-Genesis in North America) roughly line up with a time period when technically-impressive games like TMNT and Power Drift were hitting arcades.  While those games floored me at the time with their bombastic presentation, as an adult looking back in 2012, I think a quality home game from the twilight of the 8-bit era is likely to have more replay value than a quarter-sucking, multiplayer, continues-based coin-op like TMNT or Simpsons.

The single only thing that truly matters in video games (to me) is how fun they are to play, graphics be damned.  Which makes it almost paradoxical that I find the biggest arcade/console gap to be from the early 80's when graphics were basic all around.  With few exceptions, the early 80's classics--Pac-Man franchise, Q*Bert, Frogger, DK, Defender, Robotron, Missile Command, Burgertime, Galaga, and on and on--are so much more fun to play in their arcade incarnations than they are in any console version, IMO.  For me, there's really no comparison.  In fact, I'd prefer to just play console original games from that era than arcade ports.

Getting on into the 90's, I think the 16-bit systems did a good job of down-scaling technologically superior arcade games for the home, maintaining much of the fun factor, and thus leaving a smaller gap.  As mentioned, SF2 was great fun on the SNES.  MK was sweet on the Genny.  

Beyond that, I think the gap is negligible if not irrelevant; arcades were pretty much dead in the water anyway aside from big stupid dancing games, gun games, and the like.

[mbd30]

BillyHW, on Tue May 22, 2012 10:20 AM, said:

When Ghouls'n Ghosts was released in 1988, there was nothing even close possible on home systems until Mega Drive and SNES were released in the following years.  Same with Final Fight.

The Sega Master System does alright.

[BillyHW]

mbd30, on Tue May 22, 2012 12:26 PM, said:

BillyHW, on Tue May 22, 2012 10:20 AM, said:

When Ghouls'n Ghosts was released in 1988, there was nothing even close possible on home systems until Mega Drive and SNES were released in the following years.  Same with Final Fight.

The Sega Master System does alright.

This was released after the Genesis version.  And this is exactly what I mean, it's not even close.

Edited by BillyHW, Tue May 22, 2012 12:59 PM.

[Rex Dart]

BillyHW, on Tue May 22, 2012 12:58 PM, said:

mbd30, on Tue May 22, 2012 12:26 PM, said:

BillyHW, on Tue May 22, 2012 10:20 AM, said:

When Ghouls'n Ghosts was released in 1988, there was nothing even close possible on home systems until Mega Drive and SNES were released in the following years.  Same with Final Fight.

The Sega Master System does alright.

This was released after the Genesis version.  And this is exactly what I mean, it's not even close.

Wikipedia's showing the order of release as Megadrive, then arcade, then SMS, all mere months apart.

[Lord Helmet]

I always felt like there was a pretty significant gap up until the Dreamcast (or possibly the PS1). Before that arcades and consoles improved at a pace pretty relative to one another.

Edited by Lord Helmet, Tue May 22, 2012 1:21 PM.

[BillyHW]

Rex Dart, on Tue May 22, 2012 1:13 PM, said:

BillyHW, on Tue May 22, 2012 12:58 PM, said:

mbd30, on Tue May 22, 2012 12:26 PM, said:

BillyHW, on Tue May 22, 2012 10:20 AM, said:

When Ghouls'n Ghosts was released in 1988, there was nothing even close possible on home systems until Mega Drive and SNES were released in the following years.  Same with Final Fight.

The Sega Master System does alright.

This was released after the Genesis version.  And this is exactly what I mean, it's not even close.

Wikipedia's showing the order of release as Megadrive, then arcade, then SMS, all mere months apart.

The title screen itself says 1990 for SMS.  In North America the Genesis hadn't even been released yet when the arcade game came out.

And I find it so odd that the Japanese Mega Drive release was before the arcade.  ???

edit:  Later in the page it says the JP Mega Drive release was 1989, not 1988.  Clearly there's something wrong with the numbers on that page.

Edited by BillyHW, Tue May 22, 2012 1:24 PM.

[cimerians]

Its kind of hard to pick but whenever I think about it I always think of these two as well:

Arcades vs. Atari 2600\Intellivision years. 1980 - 82'?
Arcades vs. SMS\NES 1988-1990'?

I think those two gaps are the greatest.

[Austin]

BillyHW, on Tue May 22, 2012 10:20 AM, said:

Ghosts'n Goblins in 1985 was a pretty big leap forward in the arcades, and it *never* got home port that was even close.

"Never" is incorrect--it was ported to  both the Saturn and PlayStation in the mid '90s. Like someone else stated, a lot of these mid-'80s games didn't get near-flawless ports until the 32-bit generation, unfortunately.

[NightSprinter]

For Ghosts 'n Goblins, take a look at the Amiga 500 version.  I'd say that was THE closest home port we got (despite not being on an actual "console", which I know is what the discussion is).

I would argue that the releases on the PS1/Saturn on the Capcom Generations Collection discs were honestly emulations.  Playing SF Collection 2 on the PS1, something definitely didn't feel "ported" about SF2/CE/Turbo at all.

[BillyHW]

Austin, on Tue May 22, 2012 2:29 PM, said:

BillyHW, on Tue May 22, 2012 10:20 AM, said:

Ghosts'n Goblins in 1985 was a pretty big leap forward in the arcades, and it *never* got home port that was even close.

"Never" is incorrect--it was ported to  both the Saturn and PlayStation in the mid '90s. Like someone else stated, a lot of these mid-'80s games didn't get near-flawless ports until the 32-bit generation, unfortunately.

A little hyperbole.  By never, I kind of like mean within a decade , or before emulation becomes possible.  BTW, Wiki (FWIW) says the Saturn and PS1 versions (which I think are emulations of the arcade) weren't released in NA.  It wasn't until 2005 with a PS2 collection that it became available (to non-MAME players ) in NA.

I was thinking more along the lines of the 1990 Amiga version which, even 5 years later, was still quite inferior to the arcade.  (The sound especially sucks.)  I actually really liked the 1986 C64 version, and it had awesome sound, but graphically it was light years from the arcade, and only had something like half the levels.

Edited by BillyHW, Tue May 22, 2012 6:08 PM.

[BillyHW]

NightSprinter, on Tue May 22, 2012 5:43 PM, said:

For Ghosts 'n Goblins, take a look at the Amiga 500 version.  I'd say that was THE closest home port we got (despite not being on an actual "console", which I know is what the discussion is).

I would argue that the releases on the PS1/Saturn on the Capcom Generations Collection discs were honestly emulations.  Playing SF Collection 2 on the PS1, something definitely didn't feel "ported" about SF2/CE/Turbo at all.

I just finished my last post when I read this.  Like I said, I'm less than impressed with the Amiga version.  (Maybe I'm judging too harshly?)

[Austin]

BillyHW, on Tue May 22, 2012 6:00 PM, said:

Austin, on Tue May 22, 2012 2:29 PM, said:

BillyHW, on Tue May 22, 2012 10:20 AM, said:

Ghosts'n Goblins in 1985 was a pretty big leap forward in the arcades, and it *never* got home port that was even close.

"Never" is incorrect--it was ported to  both the Saturn and PlayStation in the mid '90s. Like someone else stated, a lot of these mid-'80s games didn't get near-flawless ports until the 32-bit generation, unfortunately.

A little hyperbole.  By never, I kind of like mean within a decade .  BTW, Wiki (FWIW) says the Saturn and PS1 versions (which I think are emulations of the arcade) weren't released in NA.  It wasn't until 2005 with a PS2 collection that it became available (to non-MAME players ) in NA.

I was thinking more along the lines of the 1990 Amiga version which, even 5 years later, was still quite inferior to the arcade.  (The sound especially sucks.)  I actually really liked the 1986 C64 version, and it had awesome sound, but graphically it was light years from the arcade, and only had something like half the levels.

Who cares what region it is? Point is, it was done. The Generations series in particular was also brought to the UK, so they are not Japan-exclusive.

As far as them being emulated, my gut feeling leans towards them being reprogrammed. On the Saturn, in Ghouls 'n Ghosts on Capcom Generation 2, it has load screens between stages. Likewise, I am pretty sure the Street Fighter collection has load screens as well.

I don't know how entirely capable the PlayStation is of emulation, but I tried a Master System Emulator way-back-when, and it was balls slow and basically unplayable. Assuming that was the breadth of the PlayStation's emulation capability, I don't see how it would be able to emulate these arcade games. IIRC, to sort of go along with that thought, I think I read somewhere that the games in Williams Arcade's Greatest Hits were also reprogrammed/ported from the ground up, not emulated.

[NightSprinter]

It is possible that meta-emulation may have been used.  I remember reading something on the site of the former Digital Eclipse that mentioned a lot of it in their past works.  That could be one theory.

[akator]

IMO, the biggest gap was during the 2600 heydays.  Don't get me wrong, I love the 2600... but as a kid at the time I had a 2600 at home but still played the arcade versions every time I could because they were so much better in every way.

After that, there were always growing and shrinking gaps with consoles, but from the early 80s on computers always made up the difference and generally provided much better arcade conversions than the consoles.  Sometimes the consoles would catch up, but only for a few years, and then computers would take over again for the better arcade experience.  By the time the CV/5200 were out, there were already great arcade conversions for home computers.  By the time the NES and SMS were popular, there were already better arcade versions for the ST and Amiga.  Et cetera.