What do you consider to be the best frontends for Mame & Mess?

[rxd]

It seems that the Mame and Mess teams are trying to kill the GUI versions of there emulators. What do you consider to be the best frontends for these emulators? I've seen one that combines both emulators but I prefer to keep them separate.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I really like the GUI version of Mame since it shows screenshots and all. But I'm really looking for simplicity of setup also. I don't want a big hassle whenever I update these emu's....

[akator]

I've heard GameEx is pretty good, but I haven't used it myself.

[Tafoid]

It seems that the Mame and Mess teams are trying to kill the GUI versions of there emulators. What do you consider to be the best frontends for these emulators? I've seen one that combines both emulators but I prefer to keep them separate.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I really like the GUI version of Mame since it shows screenshots and all. But I'm really looking for simplicity of setup also. I don't want a big hassle whenever I update these emu's....

 

The base UI code which drives MAMEUI, MESSUI (in turn other MAMEUIFX, MAMEPlus and other alternate "built-in MAME" type front-ends) have been around since 1998 and the core code simply is showing signs of not keeping up and being a Window Only program. MAME changes the way it does things and UI must conform if it wishes to continue to be an effective front-end. While there are a few that have recently worked to keep UI working, most developers would rather spend time with the actual emulation efforts than trying to keep an essentially "dead" UI working. This is why UI is on the way out and the cross platform QMC is being viewed as a suitable replacement in many peoples' eyes.

 

As far as front-ends go - you have simple, you have complex, you have eye candy, you have functionality.. all sorts of front-ends cater to different needs, usually based on the desires of the author themselves. For example, I have a front-end I made for myself, ML (mameload). It starts fast, allows use with many mame, mess versions, different emulators, capable and functional and allows configuration/change with little modification. It's downfall as is that it's not a very 'pretty' front-end in that is misses that eye candy most other Front-Ends are build around from.

 

Anyway, there are dozens of front-ends - your best place to try them out would be to check out the BYOAC Wiki:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Front-Ends

[Vaughan]

I use MAME32 Plus Ver 0.83, which is the last version I could get to work on my PC.

 

I never did get MESS to work.

[Trebor]

I've been using the Game Launcher front-end for years now.

 

http://www.dribin.org/dave/game_launcher/

 

MAME, Daphne, Mjolnir, SuperModel (Sega Model 3), ZiNc, Altirra, Kat5200, DOSBox, blueMSX, WinVice, CCS64, Stella, MESS, Nostalgia, Project64, Nestopia, RockNES, LoopyNES, ePSXe, pSX, Kega Fusion, MekaW, ZSNES, 9xSNES, BSNES, Ootake, Magic Engine, Mednafen, VisualBoy Advance, Neopop, and some others I am forgetting, all are easily setup and configurable. Basically, if it has Command Line support, it will work.

[Keatah]

Console Menu 2.1, it's old, it's dos, and it works for me.

[BillyHW]

It seems that the Mame and Mess teams are trying to kill the GUI versions of there emulators. What do you consider to be the best frontends for these emulators? I've seen one that combines both emulators but I prefer to keep them separate.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I really like the GUI version of Mame since it shows screenshots and all. But I'm really looking for simplicity of setup also. I don't want a big hassle whenever I update these emu's....

 

The base UI code which drives MAMEUI, MESSUI (in turn other MAMEUIFX, MAMEPlus and other alternate "built-in MAME" type front-ends) have been around since 1998 and the core code simply is showing signs of not keeping up and being a Window Only program. MAME changes the way it does things and UI must conform if it wishes to continue to be an effective front-end. While there are a few that have recently worked to keep UI working, most developers would rather spend time with the actual emulation efforts than trying to keep an essentially "dead" UI working. This is why UI is on the way out and the cross platform QMC is being viewed as a suitable replacement in many peoples' eyes.

 

As far as front-ends go - you have simple, you have complex, you have eye candy, you have functionality.. all sorts of front-ends cater to different needs, usually based on the desires of the author themselves. For example, I have a front-end I made for myself, ML (mameload). It starts fast, allows use with many mame, mess versions, different emulators, capable and functional and allows configuration/change with little modification. It's downfall as is that it's not a very 'pretty' front-end in that is misses that eye candy most other Front-Ends are build around from.

 

Anyway, there are dozens of front-ends - your best place to try them out would be to check out the BYOAC Wiki:

http://wiki.arcadeco...wiki/Front-Ends

 

The MAME and MESS teams need to make things way easier for us little people. It's like they only want other programmers to use their software, or keep it inside an exclusive club.

 

There are few things more painful than for a noob to try and figure out how to get MAME and MESS working properly. So much time is spent in frustration rather than having fun.

 

The whole concept of a "front-end" that you have to install in addition to a "back-end" and elsewhere, "frameworks" is utterly uncivilized.

 

There really needs to be a self-contained MAME app with a decent GUI that is officially supported for all three major computing platforms, Mac, PC and Linux. Why don't the MAME and MESS teams get some UI people just to work on that aspect of it, so that the emulator people can just stick to emulation?

[BillyHW]

I use MAME32 Plus Ver 0.83, which is the last version I could get to work on my PC.

 

I never did get MESS to work.

 

Still haven't gotten MESS to work either.

[BillyHW]

This is not a UI:

 

http://qmc2.arcadehi...ustom-IDs-1.png

 

It's a HEX editor.

Edited May 27, 2012 by BillyHW

[Keatah]

As far as the user experience goes, these are among the worst written bits of software in town. Not to mentioned bloated and buggy to all hell. So don't get all flustered. The numerous front-end choices is also very confusing to the newbie also. The quality is all over the board here as well.

 

Wish I had an answer for you.

 

For me, I just use an old dos program. It works for me since I am picky about what games I like and play. There's so much shit and bloat in mess & mame it's beyond belief. Very poor management. Commercial software often does better'n this.

[Keatah]

With the amount of shit programming in mame I'm sometimes forced to revert to an earlier version to be bug-free for select games. And in one case, I go way back to a dos version.

[Tafoid]

I use MAME32 Plus Ver 0.83, which is the last version I could get to work on my PC.

 

I never did get MESS to work.

 

Still haven't gotten MESS to work either.

 

I'd be happy as well as other MESS devs would be happy to try to assist you in getting MESS working for you. Much of what MESS was.. a Wiki containing information on use of hundreds of consoles, computers, calculators and others were recently lost to a catastrophic server crash. The official MESS forum is more than adequate to be used to answer usage questions or assistance with anything related.

http://forums.bannis...ostlist&Board=1

 

Would not be surprised if I was not the only MAME or MESS dev that frequents here, either. If joining another forum isn't your style - I'm sure you could ask question here as well which I can attempt to help with.

 

MAME and MESS to have minimal internal UI's which can be used for basic game selections and modification of options per-game. Both emulators require a certain bit of ability to run and edit text files (.ini) to get things set up precisely how you want. While many users prefer the hands-on approach each project brings - there are as many that prefer to be given a list of games and or computers to run, hit enter and be done with it. That's where front-ends come in.

 

It was mentioned earlier and highlighted where I mentioned I made my own front-end... it's not like I hoard it or keep it secret. I don't go out of my way to advertise it either. But, I'm happy to link you: http://mameload.mameworld.info and will, again, be happy to answer any questions related to setup or using my program, MAME or MESS.

 

Also, for the uninformed, SDLMAME, which is also contained within the officially distributed source, can be compiled on virtually ANY devices, computers and OS's which support SDL.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Tafoid

[Keatah]

This is not a UI:

 

http://qmc2.arcadehi...ustom-IDs-1.png

 

It's a HEX editor.  

I don't know what the fuck that is.. My hex editor is easier on the eyes then this shit! Edited May 27, 2012 by Keatah

[Keatah]

A mame author one time, a long long time ago, told me that they keep it this way to make it look like a documentation project and fly under the radar.

 

Make it look too good and it becomes too popular and gets too much attention from the game companies and gets shut down. I don't know if I believe that since the whole mame project is pretty well diversified.

 

Perhaps he was just feeding me shit. I don't give a fuck and I don't care.

[goldenegg]

It seems that the Mame and Mess teams are trying to kill the GUI versions of there emulators.

 

There's no attempt to kill GUI versions of the emulator. There is an attempt to move on from old GUIs which are still using legacy code, making it difficult to keep up with newer builds of the emulator. There are already other GUIs to use in place of the old ones.

 

This is not a UI:

 

http://qmc2.arcadehi...ustom-IDs-1.png

 

It's a HEX editor.

I don't know what the fuck that is.. My hex editor is easier on the eyes then this shit!

 

As a member of the QMC2 build team, I take some offence to these comments. You're both slamming something you don't understand and haven't even bothered to try.

 

There's absolutely nothing complicated about the attached screenshot. It is showing an advanced dialog, which allows the creation of custom IDs for ROMs. It's not a feature you need to touch, but is there for convenience. Behind it, you have the game list, game screenshot and a debug log. You can enable or disable any of these items in the interface to suit your specific GUI needs.

 

 

A mame author one time, a long long time ago, told me that they keep it this way to make it look like a documentation project and fly under the radar.

 

Make it look too good and it becomes too popular and gets too much attention from the game companies and gets shut down. I don't know if I believe that since the whole mame project is pretty well diversified.

 

Perhaps he was just feeding me shit. I don't give a fuck and I don't care.

 

That's complete BS. MAME is developed as a command-line app, as it makes development easier. It is a fairly complex application with many options changing from version to version. Maintaining this functionality in a GUI is a major task, so it was decided it would not be part of the main project. It didn't take long for other developers to jump in and create their own GUI for the emulator.

 

 

With the amount of shit programming in mame I'm sometimes forced to revert to an earlier version to be bug-free for select games. And in one case, I go way back to a dos version.

 

There's an extremely talented group of people working on each release. It is offered completely free and no one gets compensated for their work. You're more than welcome to contribute your own code if the 'shit programming' bothers you so much.

[Keatah]

To me, this is a simple user interface:

 

When I want to play games I simply scroll up and down the list and select. There is no clutter or muss & fuss or excessive business. I can edit this like a text file, and each game is configurable through the mame configuration screen. Configurations are typically a 1-shot activity, set and forget. Command-line operations and editing text files is not a complex operation once you understand the concept and not get intimidated. I suppose. I guess I just like minimalistic menus that get right to the point.

 

What I dislike in MESS is the ability to seemingly adjust graphics and controller settings from 3 different menus. Pray tell, what overrides what? What has priority? Changing one doesn't seemingly change the other or sometimes has an effect or sometimes does not. Depending.. Ughhh!

 

Some options seem to be related to a .c version? What the fuck is that? And some options affect vector rendering, and some affect regular screen rendering (I don't know what I mean by that), and what takes precedence over what? This is all very confusing and not coherent.

[+stephena]

That's complete BS. MAME is developed as a command-line app, as it makes development easier. It is a fairly complex application with many options changing from version to version. Maintaining this functionality in a GUI is a major task, so it was decided it would not be part of the main project. It didn't take long for other developers to jump in and create their own GUI for the emulator.

 

I have to agree with this one. As Stella has developed 'featuritis', it too has required the UI to keep up with the exploding options. In fact this is even mentioned in the FAQ, in response to someone that emailed me years ago complaining that the manual was too long, if you can believe that!

Stella is a complex program which has many goals. It is meant to be an easy-to-use emulator for those wishing to just jump in and play a game, but it also comes with very complex developer options. As the saying goes: 'with great power comes great responsibility'. There are many options to explain, and as such, the manual is necessarily long.

 

Balancing configurability through the UI vs. keeping things simple isn't always easy, and when the program gets complicated enough, isn't always possible. I struggle with this in Stella for every new release.

 

And to Keetah, I should add on the topic of complicated UIs containing diverse options: aren't you one of the people that wanted the Blargg effects in Stella to be configurable as possible, with all the bells and knobs? Well, you have to remember that putting that in involved creating a new UI with 16 or so items, as well as 12 or so new keyboard shortcuts

[kengorski]

I use QMC2 under Linux, mostly because I couldn't get GMAMEUI display options to work right. I think I complied QMC2 from source since the install files kept complaining about some version error that I couldn't make sense of. Once you point it at the right locations for the mame executable and ROMs, the rest is pretty easy. But I just looked around the QMC2 settings and I cant find where the rom path is set. I think I just edited the ini file to set this when I first installed it, but that option is not in the GUI as far as I can tell, unless it's so easy to find that I can't find it.

 

And why is there a mp3 player built into it?

 

I gave up on MESS, I tried using it so I could run TI 99/4A stuff without switching over to Virtualbox to run Windows XP to run Classic99, but I could never figure out how to load and games. I got to the point where I could run TI Basic, very slowly.

[goldenegg]

Some options seem to be related to a .c version? What the fuck is that? And some options affect vector rendering, and some affect regular screen rendering (I don't know what I mean by that), and what takes precedence over what? This is all very confusing and not coherent.

 

If you'd ask nicely, rather than being extremely rude, I'd be more than happy to explain how the options work. Unfortunately, you'd prefer to throw around profanity. I never thought I'd do this on AtariAge, but I'm adding you to my ignore list.

[Keatah]

Absolutely yes! Let me clarify. Take the new functionality with new TV effects (stella) as an example. It seems to be done quite nicely and took all of but a moment to figure out and learn. We have complex-looking alt/shift key combos, command line, editable config file, and a simple graphic menu. That's 4 ways to change something! Not to mention the basedir.txt, that's actually quite useful for my arrangement and what I am doing. The other little things like being able to change the menu color scheme is nice. I prefer the green one myself. What makes a difference (despite having 4 ways to effect option changes) is the priority.

 

Basically:

Command line is going to override everything.

GUI and ctrl-keys are going to make immediate changes which eventually get saved to config files on exit.

Config files themselves, are, well, config files. And they behave as such. Sitting at the bottom, providing "Default" options that are weak and subject to being pushed around and overridden by command/GUI/ctrl-keys.

 

Point: The uninitiated emulation newbie is going to experiment with the control keys and GUI interface first. And in almost all situations this is going to be easy to learn and sufficient for configuring just about everything. Config files absorb and preserve these changes at emulator exit. Done and done with!

 

Point: The obsessive-compulsive tinkerer is going to be messing with all kinds of configuration options, the command line, making symbolic links, managing multiple configurations, and all that happy horseshit. Writing batch files, making multiple icons with different command lines.. that sorta crap.

 

This emulator seems to accommodate everyone and covers all the bases pretty well when it comes to the user interface. There's only a few additions/changes I would be making. They're not significant and I consider them minor. And if I can think of them off-hand I'll make a posting. The mere fact I haven't complained or commented on Stella's user interface much means that it is done right. It works. You don't fight against it. You don't get lost in tediousness. It's versatile. It's not hard to use. It covers almost all situations. It just works and is not fatiguing to use. It's unobtrusive and has the right groupings and sub-menu layout. I don't mind 20 different options as long as they work, are consistent, hidden(yet easily accessible).

 

One thing that could be interesting, as a curiosity, would be real-time in-game sliders that adjust the effects. I suppose this would be more educational and suitable for demonstration/illustration purposes. It is not required for effective use of the Blargg filters. We already have the alt-shft combos to do that. I would like to see a hot-key for the style of GL_Filter such as Linear or Nearest, that would be nice. Maybe there is one and I missed it? Or perhaps the a way to save the state of HMOVE blanking in the config file, either by manual edit or perhaps a menu option on the GAME PROPERTIES under DISPLAY or something. IDK.

 

Part of the user interface design means making something universally visually appealing. This might be the toughest aspect. And it relates to how things are positioned on the screen, not just colors and different shapes of icons. Positioning is a major ineffable quality that either works or feels tedious. Not only that, it's the amount of stuff visible at one time.

 

Regarding the manual: A manual can never be too long. And anybody that complains about it just doesn't know how to prioritize and sort information by importance. They feel compelled to have to read the entire thing from front to back before using a product. They take a too-literal approach and don't allow themselves any fudge factor or interpretation.

 

I prefer a manual, to be broken down into the following sections.

1- Introduction & history & features

2- Getting started

3- Ready reference to every possible detail and option, including theory of ops, something we've gotten away from as society dumbs itself down with shorter attention spans.

It is #3 that can become quite lengthy and is a catch all for everything. And rightfully so. A beginner will read 1 and 2, or perhaps just 2. And when it comes time to solve a problem then #3 comes into play. Manual writing and documentation is an art in and of itself, like UI design.

 

Programs that have user interfaces which I find effective and easy to use:

Stellarium

CCleaner

iTunes

Paintshop Pro and much of Photoshop

Easy Duplicate Finder 2.51

Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator (considering the enormous complexity and scope)

X-plane

There are others which are good but this list will suffice.

 

I would like to see the menus on Altirra and Vice re-done. There's simply too much repetitive pull-down activity. And UAE is just one big kludge when it comes to profiles and configurations and settings. It is not logical. And there is no consistency regarding what gets saved and what is temporary.

 

Pray tell that is the difference between a SETTING and an OPTION? To the user both words have the same meaning. And yet programmers and project directors still have the need to separate those two like the plague. Arbitrarily throwing shit in one group or another with no meaningful delineation. And they make matters worse by sometimes grouping items(some, but not all) from one into the other and then building a PROFILE that keeps track of most items and forgets others. What the fuck *IS* that?!? And then they try access PROFILES through different CONFIGURATIONS. WTF?? Go blow me!

 

Motorola Phone Tools circa 2005-2007, along with other PC based cellular telephone contact managers and sync programs, has got to have been the absolute worst in terms of consistency and function. You've got all kinds of SETTINGS, OPTIONS, PROFILES, CONFIGURATIONS conflicting with each other. And to put the icing on the cake, you've got bits and pieces of this shit being stored in 3 possible locations on the phone - the memory card, the sim card, and the internal on-board memory. And different areas have different capabilities, but yet the main program on the PC doesn't tell you any of this. And certain things have to be in certain parts. Like ringtones can go here and here, but not here if you want to assign a number to a tone. And if you do, you can't use a sim card, which then limits you to less than 100 contacts. And forget storing information about these contacts in a consistent manner that stays consistent. Backing the shit up on the pc gets some of the info, but not all, and it depends where it is saved in the phone anyways. Now that's tedious!

[Keatah]

I barely have Vectrex operational in MESS, due to the maze of configuration options. Eventually I'll cut through the bs and get a nice menu going.

 

I don't use QMC2, I don't know what it is other than it's a front-end of a sort and looks very intimidating and complex. I can't offer concrete opinion other than what I see in the above screenshot. But I certainly don't want Youtube tabs going, and I don't know why I'd want an MP3 player or Downloads Manager(?) manager in there. Too much stuff.

 

I think the core programming of MESS and MAME is alright. The user interface is not. And that is evidenced at the number of replacement UI's.

[BillyHW]

I use MAME32 Plus Ver 0.83, which is the last version I could get to work on my PC.

 

I never did get MESS to work.

 

Still haven't gotten MESS to work either.

 

I'd be happy as well as other MESS devs would be happy to try to assist you in getting MESS working for you. Much of what MESS was.. a Wiki containing information on use of hundreds of consoles, computers, calculators and others were recently lost to a catastrophic server crash. The official MESS forum is more than adequate to be used to answer usage questions or assistance with anything related.

http://forums.bannis...ostlist&Board=1

 

Would not be surprised if I was not the only MAME or MESS dev that frequents here, either. If joining another forum isn't your style - I'm sure you could ask question here as well which I can attempt to help with.

 

MAME and MESS to have minimal internal UI's which can be used for basic game selections and modification of options per-game. Both emulators require a certain bit of ability to run and edit text files (.ini) to get things set up precisely how you want. While many users prefer the hands-on approach each project brings - there are as many that prefer to be given a list of games and or computers to run, hit enter and be done with it. That's where front-ends come in.

 

It was mentioned earlier and highlighted where I mentioned I made my own front-end... it's not like I hoard it or keep it secret. I don't go out of my way to advertise it either. But, I'm happy to link you: http://mameload.mameworld.info and will, again, be happy to answer any questions related to setup or using my program, MAME or MESS.

 

Also, for the uninformed, SDLMAME, which is also contained within the officially distributed source, can be compiled on virtually ANY devices, computers and OS's which support SDL.

 

My point in highlighting that one line was to show that we come from completely different worlds. If you are programming your own front end, we will have completely different concepts of usability. We will have trouble understanding one another. The very fact that you mentioned the SDL framework and compiling shows this. The non-programmer does not want to even hear about front-ends and back-ends. They need a self-contained app. I'm not sure why these front ends can't be just that.

 

And thanks for the offer of help, but right now i don't have the time to fiddle around with emulators. Real life is intruding. But at some point I will give MESS another try.

[BillyHW]

A mame author one time, a long long time ago, told me that they keep it this way to make it look like a documentation project and fly under the radar.

 

Make it look too good and it becomes too popular and gets too much attention from the game companies and gets shut down. I don't know if I believe that since the whole mame project is pretty well diversified.

 

Perhaps he was just feeding me shit. I don't give a fuck and I don't care.

 

That actually does make some sense. I wonder how much of it is true. MAME and MESS and emulation in general are hard enough to use for the average Joe that it's probably not worth the effort for the game companies to go after.

 

I'm also curious, when game companies release these game compilation discs, virtual console games etc...how much to they rely on the open source emulators out there?

[Keatah]

 

 

That actually does make some sense. I wonder how much of it is true. MAME and MESS and emulation in general are hard enough to use for the average Joe that it's probably not worth the effort for the game companies to go after.

 

I'm also curious, when game companies release these game compilation discs, virtual console games etc...how much to they rely on the open source emulators out there?

 

Not alot. They always write their own stuff, so they can copyright it. In fact, they'd be against using the open source stuff. Reviewers would be quick to point out that it's available for free. And don't the licenses and distro terms say that a fee can't be charged?

[+stephena]

A mame author one time, a long long time ago, told me that they keep it this way to make it look like a documentation project and fly under the radar.

 

Make it look too good and it becomes too popular and gets too much attention from the game companies and gets shut down. I don't know if I believe that since the whole mame project is pretty well diversified.

 

Perhaps he was just feeding me shit. I don't give a fuck and I don't care.

 

That actually does make some sense. I wonder how much of it is true. MAME and MESS and emulation in general are hard enough to use for the average Joe that it's probably not worth the effort for the game companies to go after.

 

I'm also curious, when game companies release these game compilation discs, virtual console games etc...how much to they rely on the open source emulators out there?

 

Well, I've never received a takedown notice for Stella (knock on wood), even though I feel it's pretty easy to use. Even when Atari was sending out C&D letters for Android ports, websites, etc, Stella never received anything. Now I guess it could be that Stella isn't as easy to use as I think, or that the owners of systems that MAME emulate are more aggressive than Atari, etc. Emulation itself isn't even a grey area legally; it's completely legal. Not that it would matter to some companies of course; they could sue you out of existence even if they knew they were in the wrong.