MagitekAngel Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I love Shmups. For me, there one of the four food groups, along with RPGs, Platformers, and Doom. There's nothing more satisfying for me than firing up Blazing Lazers, or Ikaruga, or Raiden, pimping out my ship with powerups, and just holding down the fire button to rain death over an improbably well-financed army of opponents. There are some older shmups, however, particularly around the NES era, where constant fire requires constant button mashing, and it's murder on the hands. Thank God for turbo fire, I say. I have a difficult time clearing even the first two levels on Gradius, or 1943, or Gun Smoke, without the benefit of some kind of turbo controller. My question to you is this: do you consider turbo fire cheating when it isn't already built into the game? It certainly makes the game easier in most cases, but is it flat out cheating? Some people need the Konami code to make it through Gradius; I just need an NES advantage. Where do you stand on the matter? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidLikesIntellivision Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 My Nes console was a clone called TURBO GAME. And its gamepad had turbo buttons, so it seemed natural for me playing nes games with turbo... The console came with Gun Smoke That's a CCE console and had two slots for american and japanese cartridges. So I like very much playing nes games with turbo (fast punches with batletoads, better Mario raccon, Guns Smoking etc.). When turbo gives me a more enjoyable game, why not use it? But if you want to compete or compare scores like in HSC, turbo is cheating if it gives you a clearly advantage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 If it isn't built into the game or stock controllers, it's a bit cheap. (Question: why was the automatic built-in rapid-fire often slower than what you could do by hand in those older games?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 My Nes console was a clone called TURBO GAME. And its gamepad had turbo buttons, so it seemed natural for me playing nes games with turbo... The console came with Gun Smoke That's a CCE console and had two slots for american and japanese cartridges. So I like very much playing nes games with turbo (fast punches with batletoads, better Mario raccon, Guns Smoking etc.). When turbo gives me a more enjoyable game, why not use it? But if you want to compete or compare scores like in HSC, turbo is cheating if it gives you a clearly advantage... Dear God, those controllers look horrible! I can't imagine playing comfortably with an inverted Genesis pad! Considering that a lot of official controllers also had turbo built-in, I'd say it's fair to use it against a computer opponent, but not a human one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (Question: why was the automatic built-in rapid-fire often slower than what you could do by hand in those older games?) That type of generic routine is not usually sophisticated enough to judge distance of what the player is shooting at...so a static time-delay is used based on the "worst-case" scenario (i.e. the furthest the game allows your shots to travel before resetting them). Rapid-fire via the controller may become next to useless tho...depending on how firing is handled by the game engine. Such as in a game like Gorf...which allows you to reset your own shots mid-flight before they have a chance to hit anything.Topic:Yes, it is...unless it's specifically made available by the game selection played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidLikesIntellivision Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (...)Dear God, those controllers look horrible! I can't imagine playing comfortably with an inverted Genesis pad! Considering that a lot of official controllers also had turbo built-in, I'd say it's fair to use it against a computer opponent, but not a human one. Those controllers were fine in my hands at the time, they were smaller than the Genesis. I "learned" to play in d-pad controls with those, before I had played just a bit with original nes, sms and Phantom System (used genesis like controls) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HatefulGravey Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Yes. You are cheating any time you are playing the game in a way that it was not intended to be played. I would go so far as to call point pressing in a high score game cheating even though that is completely ok in the high score game play communities, so maybe I'm a little too strick on my judgement on this one. What does TwinGalaxies say about this? I'm not a big fan of theirs but they do set the official rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Found this in TG's NES guidelines...but I imagine the same applies regardless of platform. 4. Though this is rather a given, I mention this anyways. Cheat codes, cheating devices [game genie for example] and banned glitches/tactics are not allowed. Unsure if you might be inadvertently using a banned glitch/tactic? By all means please ask first and I'll let you know. The last thing I would like to happen is you set a WR and I have to say it had to be DQ'd due to a banned technique. Better safe then sorry, when you're after the glory. Please note this also encompasses cheating options on other controllers such as Slow-Down or Turbo/Rapid Fire/Autofire. Please ALSO remember STRICT policy is no pausing. Accidental pausing is determined at the discretion of the TG referee. 5-8 seconds is not an accident. [There ARE SOME exceptions, such as where the Start Button brings up menus or is needed to access certain items [such as in Star Tropics] If there's any confusion or concerns on a particular title you're submitting for, please feel free to ask for clarification]] No turbo fire, no slowmo. Only what one could match using a plain 'ol dogbone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 If you're not comparing scores with anybody and just playing for fun, it doesn't matter if it's cheating. If it makes the game more enjoyable for you, cheat your butt off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhan Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Its only cheating in games that weren't designed for it. Some stuff was designed assuming you will be using turbo shootering. I like watching people play R Type with the turbo switch though. Games alot harder if you don't use the charged up beam. Tards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HatefulGravey Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 If you're not comparing scores with anybody and just playing for fun, it doesn't matter if it's cheating. If it makes the game more enjoyable for you, cheat your butt off. This is also true. If you are just playing for fun there are no rules. I guess the fact that question was asked lead me to believe this was about submitting a score, or even bragging rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I was watching a YouTube video the other day of a guy who could press a button 16 times/second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltigro Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Hi, my name is Eltigro, and I use turbos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thegoldenband Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 When it comes to using turbo in the course of beating a game, I think it really depends on how the game implements it, and what the game's goals are. I've recently been using turbo for Wonder Boy III: Monster Lair on the Genesis, and I don't feel I'm doing anything wrong because (a) turbo is inherently double-edged, since it reduces the range of some weapons (including your main weapon), and (b) the bosses can only be hit once every second or so, so it doesn't allow for overwhelming damage in a short amount of time. It saves a lot of wear and tear on my hands. More to the point, I'm really not interested in giving myself carpal tunnel by jamming the fire button ten times a second for minutes on end. I personally think games like Track & Field II are B.S., and that the "press a button as fast as you can" mechanic is basically a lousy excuse for gameplay. I feel that way even on systems for which I have an arcade-style joystick, and I'm certainly not interested in trying it with a gamepad. And I'm capable of pressing a button really fast, too -- I can probably come close to that YouTube guy's 16x/second -- but man, does it take a toll on my hand and arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accousticguitar Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Rules are made to be broken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperman Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I think it's cheating for action games with the exception of TG-16, but I use it pretty much everywhere I can. Turbo saves controllers, and a lot of games seem to be designed to destroy them. It also takes some pain out of some of those turn-based rpg's. I don't consider that cheating, since it's not an action game, but a method for getting rid of swarms of low-level enemies quicker. Edited June 5, 2012 by Reaperman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BydoEmpire Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yeah, but just it's cheating at a video game so who cares (as long as it's not online, then cheaters just suck all around)? If it makes it more fun for you, enjoy. I like using my NES Advantage turbo on some games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqoon Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 No. But if you are trying for high score records on Twin Galaxies, then maybe it is best to divulge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatta Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Using factory installed features on a Nintendo branded controller on a Nintendo branded game on a Nintendo branded console is cheating? More to the point, I'm really not interested in giving myself carpal tunnel by jamming the fire button ten times a second for minutes on end. I personally think games like Track & Field II are B.S., and that the "press a button as fast as you can" mechanic is basically a lousy excuse for gameplay. Agreed. It's forgivable for 8 bit games, because gaming was new and it wasn't clear what sucked. It's really disheartening to see it in otherwise fascinating games like Fahrenheit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Using factory installed features on a Nintendo branded controller on a Nintendo branded game on a Nintendo branded console is cheating? Yes. Otherwise, the feature would have to be present in the actual game (or at least, present on every controller so that no player has an unfair "Advantage" over another). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGameCollector Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Using factory installed features on a Nintendo branded controller on a Nintendo branded game on a Nintendo branded console is cheating? Yes. Otherwise, the feature would have to be present in the actual game (or at least, present on every controller so that no player has an unfair "Advantage" over another). Here they take rules about about having an "Advantage" to the "Max" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Depends on the game. I know there were a few games (like Fester's Quest) that had a line in the manual encouraging you to use a turbo controller. Also, a lot of games had turbo features added when they got ported/remade/sequeled to newer consoles. As an aside, I always liked how putting the A button (I think it was) on turbo in the SNES version of Mortal Kombat II with Liu Kang would make you bicycle kick your way to victory (and you'd get to fight Jade, too!). At least the turbo controller we had worked that way. I love Shmups. For me, there one of the four food groups, along with RPGs, Platformers, and Doom. I always thought that DOOM felt like a first-person shoot-em-up to begin with; lots of strafing and projectile dodging, compared to almost every other game in the FPS genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I don't feel like it's complete cheating. I don't quite respect someone the same though if they used auto-fire to complete something absurdly difficult like, say, the original R-Type. If you want the cred, do it working around how the game designers intended it to be played. Another thing for me is that a lot of the feel of any given game is lost by resorting to auto/turbo fire, provided it doesn't have it built-in by default (e.g., Thunder Force series). That's the biggest reason why I don't use it. I love Shmups. For me, there one of the four food groups, along with RPGs, Platformers, and Doom. LOL, I love how DOOM is it's own food group. (I concur, by the way! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesisguy Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I was using my NES MAX for 1943 and Gun.Smoke. But I'm not competing with anyone and my NES controllers are getting a bit worn so I thought I'd save some life on them by not having to mash down on the buttons over and over. I scored a lot of original NES controllers and have been using them now. I agree with Austin. There is a certain feel los to these games by using the auto-fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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