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Saving with APE


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#1 PageVGP OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:54 PM

Hi guys,

Been searching and trying to get an answer but I have failed to find any. I have an Atari 400 and I am using APE. Simple question is, can I save a program I am working on to a 'virtual' drive? I really cannot work it out!

Many thanks and apologies if this is a repeat post (please point me in the right direction!)

Page

#2 mimo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:57 PM

You need to create a blank formatted disc image. Does your 400 have a ram upgrade?

#3 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:31 PM

If you only have 16K, it will be difficult since you barely have enough room for a Dos + a program. You probably could use the APE cassette function to load/save programs. Not sure, since I haven't used cassettes for years and years. But might be worth a try. Maybe a good time to get a >= 64K computer?

-Larry

#4 atari8warez OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:27 PM

Maybe Hias's Mypicodos could help him. I am not sure about that DOS's footprint (the .atr itself is about 6K) but certainly is smaller than others.
Here's an archive with different versions of the .atr

@PaheVGP why don't you try this and see,

Attached Files


Edited by atari8warez, Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:32 PM.


#5 russg OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:14 PM

Hi guys,

Been searching and trying to get an answer but I have failed to find any. I have an Atari 400 and I am using APE. Simple question is, can I save a program I am working on to a 'virtual' drive? I really cannot work it out!

Many thanks and apologies if this is a repeat post (please point me in the right direction!)

Page

I think the answer is yes. You're coding in BASIC. All you have to do is "SAVE "D:MYPROG.BAS". Since you said you're using APE, you can't be using it if you haven't been using a DOS, unless you just
have been using it with menu disks or something. I think so. To get your program back "LOAD "D:MYPROG.BAS". Maybe I'm missing something. Unregistered APE will allow saves to APE, just,
I think you can't go APE to Atari. I'm fuzzy, seems like I remember unregistered only goes Atari to APE, so maybe you can't SAVE a file. If you try and it doesn't work, that's the way it is.
edit: Sorry, I'm not making much sense.

Edited by russg, Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:28 PM.


#6 PageVGP OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:10 AM

Hi guys,

Thank you for all of the replies!

I am a feature/news writer for www.retrocollect.com and I was asked a while back to review the 'AtariMax' (Have a looksee here at what I thought) And I get to keep it, so naturally I wanted to see if i could replace my ancient and lets face it, almost dead 1010 tape drive with something that will give all the storage Ill ever need!

Mimo: No upgrades Im afraid, just as nature intended, OK I guess I need to be a bit more familiar with APE, but the documentation seems a little lacking

Larry: I do have an 800XL, maybe Ill try using that instead? Should I load DOS first (last time I used an Atari 8 bit FDD was in 1986, I am a wee bit rusty)

atari8warez: Thank you! I will give it a try and report back!

russg: Umm I THINK I get what you mean, Ill give it a go!

Thanks again guys!

#7 atari8warez OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:52 AM

Hey no problem PageVGP.... I've read your article and it's good, one note though, I think when someone is mentioning the SIO2PC hardware a credit to the original inventor (Nick Kennedy) is due, while Atarimax is a major supplier of SIO2PC type hardware, they are not the original inventor, nor the only supplier of the hardware and APE isn't the only software to use it.. Just to straigthen up the facts ;) . Maybe a comparaison of different hardware/software/vendor options (on another article) could be more useful.

Edited by atari8warez, Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:55 AM.


#8 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:46 PM

If you use the 800XL, you should have no problem.

Place a bootable Dos image in SLOT D1: (your choice of Dos), but Dos 2.0, 2.5, Smart Dos or MyDos would be good choices for a relatively unfamiliar user.
Turn ON -- boot your 800XL.
You should see the sector counts go up as APE loads Dos (and hear the SIO reading sound).
Load your program from Dos or BASIC, depending on the type. If BASIC, then type in your program or LOAD it from an image: LOAD D2:MYPROG.BAS If a binary load file, then use option "L" from the Dos menu, and then type in the program name and slot/Drive location of your program.
"Diddle" with your program, then (if BASIC) SAVE "D2:MYPROG2.BAS" (Saves under a different name to avoid it being replaced.)

Look at the Pinned topics for the one for newbies -- good stuff in there.

Nick Kennedy was the original developer, but Steve Tucker (AtariMax) clearly took the functionality to the next several levels, and has the most full-featured software (at this time). Most "alternative" developers have created a smaller feature set and then for one reason or another, stopped development (albeit several have made the software open source). But Atari users are fortunate to have choices in the software and hardware.

-Larry

#9 atari8warez OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:15 PM

Nick Kennedy was the original developer,
-Larry


And Larry that's exactly why he deserves an honorable mention. Can we say Atari without recognizing Nolan Bushnell

#10 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:55 AM

No problem with that -- we probably wouldn't have had these (PC) Peripheral Systems until much, much later if Nick hadn't had the idea originally.

FWIW, I was not impressed at all with the original SIO2PC, only modestly enthused about APE for Dos, and then WOW! about APE for Windows.

-Larry

#11 atari8warez OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:32 PM

I personally don't care much about extra functionality (other than printing). Storage and speed is what makes SIO2PC valuable to me. As for the software i have no problem with APE, i just don't like to be coerced into buying a software by crippling it. Perhaps Steve should have incuded a percentage of the cost of the software into the hardware and offer a fully functional hw/sw solution.

AspeQt will eventualy have most, if not all/more functionality of APE, it may not happen overnight but I believe it will, even the way it is today is enough for most people unless one is running an 8 bit BBS using its R: emulation, other than that and the built-in Prosystem interface, APE has no advantages over AspeQT, in fact, with it's proprietary sw it is limited to 3xSIO speeds compared to AspeQt which can reach near 6xSIO using an open source SIO code. APE has a lot of config options which has a "geek" appeal but provide little in terms of actual benefit compared to AspeQt. The latter also has a more modern GUI and can run in different platforms like Windows/Linux (Unix)/Mac OS etc... and best of all it's FREE and open source..... For me those benefits far outweight the few extra options APE might offer to anyone willing to pay for the privilege.

Edited by atari8warez, Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:36 PM.


#12 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:20 AM

IIRC, you are not the original author of AspeQt. Then it's terrific that you have chosen to add improvements and fixes. And I sincerely hope that you keep on improving it. AspeQt has certainly opened up new possibilities.

But I don't understand your comment about APE being limited to 3X SIO speeds? That's only on an RS232 system. The AtariMax USB adapter + registered APE goes all the way to zero on my stuff (using Hiasoft's wonderful driver). I routinely run it conservatively from 3-5. Perhaps you could clarify what you are referring to?

Note: I wondered about this "3X limit," so I decided to run some comparison tests between APE (registered) and AspeQt 0.8.3 using RWTEST V3.7.

For brevity, I'm only showing the averages in Single Density. (DD is always faster.) All tests were run with MyDos 4.5 and Hiasoft driver. In all tests, APE was faster writing, and AspeQt was slightly faster reading. APE was run with the AtariMax adapter. AspeQt was run with the FTDI chip adapter.

APE Pokey=8 3452
AspeQt Pokey=8 3206

APE Pokey=5 4032
AspeQt Pokey=5 3653

APE Pokey=3 4420
AspeQt (would not respond to Pokey=3)

APE Pokey=0 5118
AspeQt (would not respond to Pokey=0)

I tried rebooting, re-starting AspeQt, etc. to get the AspeQt/FTDI system to respond to the lower Pokey settings, but the Pokey limit appears to be built into the 0.8.3 software. (?) Perhaps someone else could try these settings and see if it works for them?

Yes, folks have to pay for registered APE -- that's the way it is. If folks think that's Steve's time and efforts should be free, then they can use a slightly crippled version of APE or use Atari810 or AspeQt, etc. And like the extra features, the user/purchaser has to decide if the incremental amount of added speed from APE is worth the added cost.

If AspeQt had been around ten or so years ago, my preferences might be different, but it wasn't. If the current USB adapters had been around 7 or so years ago, my opinion might be different. What was around ten or so years ago was APE and the open source of "Atari810." (Really, really nice GUI drive "skins" on 810, BTW.)

But I do think that it is great that Atari users have viable choices, including a lower cost solution.

-Larry

#13 atari8warez OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:19 PM

IIRC, you are not the original author of AspeQt. Then it's terrific that you have chosen to add improvements and fixes. And I sincerely hope that you keep on improving it. AspeQt has certainly opened up new possibilities.


You're right, I am not the original author, Fatih Aygun is, who unfortunately took a sabbatical (for an unspecifed period of time - which may even be permanent-) from coding due to personal matters. Since I build SIO2PC hardware and was once a programmer by profession with some Atari background too, it seemed natural to me to take over the project - at least until he's back - and add my own enhancements. I am not doing this for money as you can imagine. It's a great hobby to keep me coding - which I enjoy - and keep learning. I will do so as long as my circumstances allow, so AspeQt will have more features for sure, what and when is anybody's guess :-)

But I don't understand your comment about APE being limited to 3X SIO speeds? That's only on an RS232 system. The AtariMax USB adapter + registered APE goes all the way to zero on my stuff (using Hiasoft's wonderful driver). I routinely run it conservatively from 3-5. Perhaps you could clarify what you are referring to?


I can not comment on APE's proprietary USB interface as I don't own an APE device and don't have registered version of the sw. What I am referring to is either the classic RS232 mode or USB connected VCP (FTDI - Virtual Com Port) mode.

APE version 3.0.2 - unregistered has no limitation on READ speeds but writes are limited to 1 x SIO. That's the version of the software I tried with both RS232 and USB VCP connections.

I tested APE with APE WARP MyDos 4.53 Utilities Disk (using the .atr made by AtariMax), and my own FTDI chip based SIO2PC/10502PC Dual-USB device,
I tested AspeQt with Hias's SIO patch over Atari DOS 2.5, and again my own FTDI chip based SIO2PC/10502PC Dual-USB device.

APE can not go beyond 3xSIO on reads while AspeQt was screaming along 6xSIO (Pokey 0) with no problems. Did not compare write speeds due to unregistered limitation. However I am aware that APE is slightly faster on writes (as I've noticed in a Atarimax youtube video demo). I am not sure why AspeQt is slower on writes but I am hoping that I will find that out.


APE Pokey=8 3452
AspeQt Pokey=8 3206

APE Pokey=5 4032
AspeQt Pokey=5 3653

APE Pokey=3 4420
AspeQt (would not respond to Pokey=3)

APE Pokey=0 5118
AspeQt (would not respond to Pokey=0)


AspeQt runs at all Pokey divisors including 0, using my own FTDI based SIO2PC/10502PC dual-USB interface, with Hias's SIO patch with no problems.
125,000bps shown on the video corresponds to Pokey divisor 0. If AspeQt doesn't respond to Pokey 3 or 0 in your case, I would say it's probably due to the chipset in your FTDI adaptor. There is no speed limit built into the AspeQt 0.8.3 software.

Yes, folks have to pay for registered APE -- that's the way it is. If folks think that's Steve's time and efforts should be free, then they can use a slightly crippled version of APE or use Atari810 or AspeQt, etc. And like the extra features, the user/purchaser has to decide if the incremental amount of added speed from APE is worth the added cost.


I am not suggesting that anybody's time and efforts should be free. I should know that as I worked many years as a programmer to make a living. Having said that, I support open source especially when a hobby is involved. Atari software is no longer commercially viable and no one will ever get rich (or even make a living) writing/selling 8 bit sw, so Steve could have made it easier for the hobbiest to own his excellent hardware, had he chose to build some of the sw cost into the hw and offer a fully functional device instead of a half functional hw with crippleware. In any case this is my opinion and everybody is entitled to their own.

But I do think that it is great that Atari users have viable choices, including a lower cost solution.


I agree...

Edited by atari8warez, Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:25 PM.





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