+retroclouds Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I'd like to do some Tutankham tests on the TI-99/4A. I will be using Jon Guidry's PCB (the 64K version) and I need a cheap way to program a 64K (8x8) EEPROM for testing purposes. Any advise on a good EEPROM programmer and EEPROM itself? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OX. Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Does this mean it's almost ready for release? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky007 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 personally i use this one : eBay Auction -- Item Number: 160378432470 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The EPROM programmer I use for bigger EPROMs - search ebay for "G540 USB EPROM" and you'll find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 another vote for the Genius G540, nice programmer. don't forget you will need a UV lamp to erase the eproms. I buy my eproms from this ebay seller eBay Store: IC-China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+retroclouds Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the replies. Both mentioned programmers seem to be in a very fair pricerange (for the needs I have anyway). ok, as far as hardware is concerned I'm a total rookie, so can you guys give some details: For testing purposes I'd like to use an EEPROM instead of an EPROM. That way I would not need a UV lamp. Is it safe to assume that an EEPROM is a drop-in-replacement for a normal EPROM and that it works with Jon Guidrys' PCB ? Can I use the mentioned programmers for erasing & programming an EEPROM ? Anyone know the part numbers for both a 64K (8x8) EPROM and a 64K (8x8) EEPROM ? @OX: No the game is not yet ready for release. But it's important that it is tested on the real iron during several stages of the development cycle. Didn't have that problem with Pitfall, because that was a game that was designed for the 32K memory expansion and later on shoe-horned on a cartridge. That is something I never would do again. Tutankham is designed as a cartridge game from day one. I'm making usie of the 8 banks and I don't want to rely on emulators alone. Edited June 14, 2012 by retroclouds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Back in the day (and possibly again soon) I had a burner for my Commodore 64. I got it at a garage sale and wound up never using it, and currently wishing I hadn't gotten rid of it. Anyway, was there ever a burner made for use by the TI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Back in the day (and possibly again soon) I had a burner for my Commodore 64. I got it at a garage sale and wound up never using it, and currently wishing I hadn't gotten rid of it. Anyway, was there ever a burner made for use by the TI? There's the: -- Mechatronics Eprommer (http://home.arcor.de/cziepke/ti99/ti/dia07.htm) -- Unreleased TI Eprom Programmer Card (.jpg"]http://aug.99er.net/images/Unreleased/ti998se18[1].jpg) -- Sideport Eprom Programmer I knocked up (http://www.avjd51.dsl.pipex.com/ti/ti.htm#eprom_programmer) Possibly others? Stuart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jens-eike Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 If you want to keep it with the TI-99: the ASCSI card allows to program Flash-EEPROMs with the DSR-Loader program: http://home.arcor.de/system-ninety-nine-user-group/util/dsrldr3_e.pdf (omit _e for German version) What size EEPROMs do you mean, 8k*8 is 8k bytes or 64 kbit EPROM: 27©64, EEPROM: 28C64 (see Thierry's page about EEPROMs), 64kbyte = 64k*8 = 512kbit is 27C512 (EPROM) or 29C512 (Flash-EEPROM, Atmel AT29C512 is usable in ASCSI!). I am not aware of an EEPROM of this size, but a 32kbyte version is available: 28C256. All of the above chips come in 28-pin packages and should be usable on the cartridge board, but check for connection of the -WE signal, if it is connected to the E(E)PROM, it could cause trouble (writing to the EEPROM while changing banks). Jens-Eike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+retroclouds Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) I'm going for a programmer that connects to the PC, so I guess a USB programmer would be just fine. Sorry for the confusion. With 8x8 I mean 8 banks of 8 kilobytes each, so that would be 64 kilobytes. On the Jon Guidry boards I need a chip with 28 pins. So I guess it is safe to assume that the 27C512 would work fine, but I'd need a UV light for erasing ? The 29C512 can't be used as it has 32 pins. Is that correct? I suppose there is no 29C512 with 28 pins ? The 28C256 which has 28 pins could work, but would be no good for me as it only offers 4x8K banks (32 kilobytes). Here's another question: How long does a UV erase cycle take? And how often can one erase an EPROM before it breaks ? Edited June 14, 2012 by retroclouds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 erase takes a couple of minutes, not sure how many times you can go through the process. you need a UV light box to erase, you can build your own pretty cheaply using a medical grade UV lamp, or buy a cheap Chinese one from ebay.you could use daylight, but it will take a loooong time. The chips from IC-China are pre-erased fyi Just a side note, the genius G540 will only work with 32bit versions of widoze. Another option if you are only going to be burning a small number of chips is to email the files to me and I can burn the chips and post them back for cost of chip+shipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 To check whether an EEPROM can be used in place of the EPROM, just compare the pinouts, Electrically they should behave similarly and I am sure there's a plug-in replacement possible. Otherwise, it's not too big a hassle to erase, mine take about 15 minutes and I just have four chips I rotate through. Datasheets will say how many times erasing works but it's larger than you're likely to run into in most cases. Just always do a blank check before you program. You can use larger EPROMs on boards designed for smaller ones in a pinch, just bend up the extra pins and tie them appropriately (you'll have to compare datasheets against the intended one again, but usually the of the pins that stick out, one will be power and you'll need to deal with that, and the rest are usually address and can be tied to ground). It wastes the unused space of the EPROM, but these days that's not a huge deal. Still, it's a lot faster, easier, and less error prone to just have the right chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jens-eike Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 This datasheet: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/11173G.pdf states an erase cycle time of 40minutes, that seems rather long, TI's TMS27C512 was specified with an erase time of 21 min (MOS Memory Data Book 1991), my experience is 15min should suffice (blank test OK). Oops, yes the 29C512 is 32pin, my bad. Same offer, if you send me the *.bin file, I can program the chip for you, Flensburg is probably closer thus cheaper and faster mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+acadiel Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I have used Winbond W27C512 chips from ebay successfully with the cart board; they are the same pinout as UV chips. They also make smaller capacities. They should be what you are looking for!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I have used Winbond W27C512 chips from ebay successfully with the cart board; they are the same pinout as UV chips. They also make smaller capacities. They should be what you are looking for!! I wanted to confirm that the Winbond W27C512 chips are a great choice! Burned 3 and verified their use with John's v03c 64k board just 2 days ago. Worked great and saves the hassle of using UV to erase. Bump to Tursi for helping me perform the complex math necessary to select the right EEPROM . I forgot that the number in the chip represented the number of K bits not K bytes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+retroclouds Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Thanks mimo and jens-eike for the offer, that's very kind of you guys. Think I'll be getting a USB programmer and some W27C512 chips, that's part of the fun If I fail, I'll glady come back to your offer @Jens-Eike: Just checked, Flensburg is about 743 kilometers from Ludwigshafen/Mannheim, so snail mail would work nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 This datasheet: http://ww1.microchip...eDoc/11173G.pdf states an erase cycle time of 40minutes, that seems rather long, The datasheet does give an average time, based on a specific wavelength and a specific brightness and a specific distance from the lamp -- so it varies. The eraser I have drops the chip right up against the lamp and claims that gives a faster erase (I have to admit I don't pay a lot of attention, but I've never needed more than 15 minutes so far). As with all such things, your mileage may vary, so that's why blank check is your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew180 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Definitely get a USB programmer. It is getting very hard to find computers with serial or parallel ports, and Microsoft seems to be breaking their legacy drivers too. For example, you can't format a floppy on Win7. I have a serial port based programmer, and I have to keep an old laptop that runs under 1GHz to use the programmer because the moron developers used instruction counting to establish timing. Dumb. EPROM vs. EEPROM. IMO stay away from EPROMs if you can. UV erasing is not hard, but a decent UV-eraser will cost an extra $40-ish or so, and they are just a hassle. Sometimes they won't totally erase, some take 2 minutes, others take 10 minutes. I do about a 3 minute cycle, then blank-check the device. If it is not erased, it goes in the UV eraser for another 3 minutes. Repeat. The EEPROMs are "electronically erasable" and any device programmer with paying for should be able to erase/program them. Much easier. Also, some of the Dallas battery-backed SRAMs are nice to have around too (although expensive), and I was shocked to see the exact part numbers in my programmer's list of supported devices. I don't remember the exact part numbers right off, but the most/all of the 27x and 29x should be on the programmer's list of devices. The low-end programmer I bought even supports a good number of PAL (programmable array logic) devices, a descent set of microcontrollers, and even has a 74-logic tester (tests most 74x series logic chips to determine if all the gates are working, etc.) That comes in handy when you have piles of 20-year-old chips and you don't know if they are good. Of course my programmer does not support a lot of the newer devices, but that works out great since the systems I'm messing around with are 20+ years old (I do some coin-op repair too). The pin-outs for most of these memories are compatible, and the larger chips usually just add the additional address lines. A quick google search turned up this: http://www.z80.info/gfx/eprom.gif Somewhere I have a PDF with the larger devices too, showing the relationship between the pins vs. package, but I can't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 ... Think I'll be getting a USB programmer and some W27C512 chips, that's part of the fun If I fail, I'll glady come back to your offer ... How have you fared with EPROM programming? I'm about to go there and need current advice. Which programmer did you acquire? ...lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+retroclouds Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 The project stalled and I didn't get a USB programmer. Some day it will happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 (edited) Anybody used the MiniPro TL866CS? Website (http://www.autoelectric.cn/minipro/) says it'll handle 27C512. Does that mean it'll likely handle the lower capacity 27Cxxx chips? ...lee Edited December 8, 2013 by Lee Stewart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazoo Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 ... For example, you can't format a floppy on Win7. ... Click start and type CMD in the Run window. In the black screen that opens type FORMAT A: and hit the enter key. Gazoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Here is a snapshot of the devices-supported page before it went off-line. It says it supports 13137 different parts. http://web.archive.org/web/20130818234436/http://www.autoelectric.cn/minipro/MiniProSupportList.txt While the WayBack machine is great, I have also included the support parts list. MiniProSupportList.txt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Here is a snapshot of the devices-supported page before it went off-line. It says it supports 13137 different parts. http://web.archive.org/web/20130818234436/http://www.autoelectric.cn/minipro/MiniProSupportList.txt While the WayBack machine is great, I have also included the support parts list. Thanks for the TXT file. The website has not gone offline, however—only the TXT file referenced. The page that pops up (I augmented the link in my post with 'http://') has a table with much of the information in the file you passed along except for the detailed manufacturers' references, including, of course, many more 27Cxxx references. ...lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Thanks for the TXT file. The website has not gone offline, however—only the TXT file referenced. The IIS 404 error was in Chinese, or something. Thought I was being hacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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