Jump to content

Photo

What defines a Rogue-like game?


54 replies to this topic

#1 theloon ONLINE  

theloon

    Quadrunner

  • 7,695 posts

Posted Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:16 PM

With more than a few people putting Rogue on their do-want list in this topic:
http://www.atariage....o-you-wish-for/

I started thinking about what defines a Rogue-like and how that could apply to the 2600.

I remember something about going to the bottom of a dungeon to defeat a boss then climbing back up to win.

I remember having potions armor weapons and rings.

I remember stupid permadeath and starvation.

isn't that about all a Rogue-like is? In that case, ALL of the above seems doable for the 2600. Anything I'm missing or over-simplifying? Any perceived show stoppers?

What would a Rogue-like for 2600 look and play like?

Edited by theloon, Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:17 PM.


#2 kskunk OFFLINE  

kskunk

    Moonsweeper

  • 435 posts
  • Location:Atari Mecca Sunnyvale, CA

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:24 AM

For me, Roguelike means a keyboard for all the many actions possible at each turn! The control scheme would be a challenge.

- KS

#3 theloon ONLINE  

theloon

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 7,695 posts

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:33 AM

It's very true the turn based aspect of Rogue is important. If a DOS PC and an Atari 2600 made love, would the child really have a keyboard? I guess keyboard controllers could be used. Controlling your avatar with a joystick sounds like more fun to me - at least on a 2600.

#4 MagitekAngel OFFLINE  

MagitekAngel

    River Patroller

  • 2,152 posts
  • Location:Ottawa

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:34 AM

Roguelikes? Roguelikes are all death and no graphics. :P
Tilesets are for pussies!

#5 Random Terrain ONLINE  

Random Terrain

    Visual batari Basic User

  • 24,830 posts
  • Controlled Randomness
    Replay Value
    Nonlinear
  • Location:North Carolina (USA)

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:35 AM

I don't know much about them. Here are a few YouTube videos that show them in action:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgDemIjjaEk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgDemIjjaEk


www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF0VARnr7YQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF0VARnr7YQ


www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuGZ3wJ3wz0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuGZ3wJ3wz0

#6 theloon ONLINE  

theloon

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 7,695 posts

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:43 AM

I'm pretty sure the Answer lies in finding the middle ground between Rogue and Adventure. What features would make Rogue too much like Adventure? What features would make Adventure too much like Rogue? If I can define the sweet spot then bob's your uncle.

#7 Random Terrain ONLINE  

Random Terrain

    Visual batari Basic User

  • 24,830 posts
  • Controlled Randomness
    Replay Value
    Nonlinear
  • Location:North Carolina (USA)

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:55 AM

I'm pretty sure the Answer lies in finding the middle ground between Rogue and Adventure. What features would make Rogue too much like Adventure? What features would make Adventure too much like Rogue? If I can define the sweet spot then bob's your uncle.


I love exploring terrain that was created using controlled randomness, looking for treasure and other cool stuff. Games like Civilization 2 scratch that itch, but I don't care much for most of the other stuff, like researching technology.

#8 SlowCoder OFFLINE  

SlowCoder

    River Patroller

  • 3,686 posts
  • Location:Florida, US

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:13 AM

Rogue-likes are fun and entertaining, if not frustrating. The text based ones like Rogue and NetHack are great for using your imagination in. I've always found it very daunting to play these versions due to the sheer complexity of the controls.

#9 theloon ONLINE  

theloon

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 7,695 posts

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:15 AM

Yeah, complex of controls will have to go out the window with an Atari 2600 game. Can anyone double check my sanity on the basic aspects of a Rogue-like?

* Go to the lowest floor and defeat a boss. Come back to dungeon level 1.
* Collect food, rings, potions, armor, weapons and spells.
* No saves. Starve if hungry for too long.
* Fight random monsters.

That seems like Rogue in a nutshell, no?

#10 SlowCoder OFFLINE  

SlowCoder

    River Patroller

  • 3,686 posts
  • Location:Florida, US

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:11 AM

Yeah, complex of controls will have to go out the window with an Atari 2600 game. Can anyone double check my sanity on the basic aspects of a Rogue-like?

* Go to the lowest floor and defeat a boss. Come back to dungeon level 1.
* Collect food, rings, potions, armor, weapons and spells.
* No saves. Starve if hungry for too long.
* Fight random monsters.

That seems like Rogue in a nutshell, no?

Yep. And about enough to piss off the Atari 2600 gods. As in, that's probsbly about all the 2600 could handle in a halfway well written game.

#11 HatefulGravey OFFLINE  

HatefulGravey

    River Patroller

  • 2,356 posts
  • A ROM image is no way to live.
  • Location:Georgia

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:03 AM

Rouge-like games are crazy. I have played ADOM for years and never come close to beating it. The controls are very important to remember, taking your time matters for a lot, and paying attention to everything is a must. The sheer number of things that can happen and have to be handled correctly make these games very challenging indeed. If you ever master one though you have surely done something.

ADOM, Slash'EM, and NetHack ruled me for a good while and are a pile of fun if you can find the most recent version and get everything running. Just don't go thinking you are going to beat one anytime soon. There are things like the DOOM Rouge-Like that are very good ways to get used to the idea without too much complication.

#12 Syntaxerror999 OFFLINE  

Syntaxerror999

    Dragonstomper

  • 538 posts

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:05 AM

Could the Stellar Track or the Basic programing kernel be adapted to run a game like that? (NO I dont mean programing IN Basic P... That would be the shortest rouge ever) As for control scheme, you got 12 keys on a keypad, depending on how many different commands you plan on having thats at leats 12 commands there. Diff switches or the color switch yeilds another 12. Typed commands are right out unless you support the commavid.

Edited by Syntaxerror999, Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:07 AM.


#13 theloon ONLINE  

theloon

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 7,695 posts

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:26 AM

A few grand wizards are working on a text display kernel:
http://www.atariage....display/unread/

Batari BASIC support is probably waay in the future. I'd love to use it though.

Commands would have to be either activated by short or long button presses. I could use the 6 digit score as a menu like I did in my mock up here:
http://www.atariage....e/#entry2065929

#14 SpiceWare ONLINE  

SpiceWare

    Quadrunner

  • 8,120 posts
  • Medieval Mayhem
  • Location:Planet Houston

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:37 AM

I suspect it'll be another week or two before the text display kernel is finished. bB support will be up to somebody else as once the text kernel is done I'll be back to Space Rocks. And yes, I'm taking this diversion because the text kernel will be in Space Rocks. It'll be nice to have a display larger than 12x9 :)


For Rogue/NetHack I could see using a joystick in the left port for movement and attack/flee (firebutton + direction where direction towards enemy is attack while away from enemy is flee) and a keypad in the right port where each button is a command.

Alternatively, use a joystick in the right port for the commands. Up/down cycles thru commands, left/right cycles thru objects. Hitting fire would pick the displayed command or object.

Edited by SpiceWare, Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:38 AM.


#15 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

GroovyBee

    Games Developer

  • 7,772 posts
  • Busy bee!
  • Location:North, England

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:41 AM

You could do it on the 7800 XM in 320A (1BPP) with a 40 column display using 8x8 characters and a XEGS keyboard too :P.

#16 toiletunes OFFLINE  

toiletunes

    Stargunner

  • 1,400 posts
  • Custom Status
  • Location:Salem, Mo 65560 USA

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:09 PM

I know nothing of this Rogue you speak of, but it sounds like crypts of chaos

#17 theloon ONLINE  

theloon

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 7,695 posts

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:34 PM

@GroovyBee:
I hope that cc65 at least has text printing libraries for 7800. Otherwise I'd have to bug you about alpha testing your C libraries :P THEN I would have to spend $100 on an XM. Have to remember that part while there still are some left.

@toilettunes:
Thanks to the friendly folks at Temple of the Rogue-like I was able to find a REALLY good reference as to what Rogue is all about:
http://userpages.mon...olonel/rvm.html

#18 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

GroovyBee

    Games Developer

  • 7,772 posts
  • Busy bee!
  • Location:North, England

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:42 PM

@GroovyBee:
I hope that cc65 at least has text printing libraries for 7800. Otherwise I'd have to bug you about alpha testing your C libraries :P THEN I would have to spend $100 on an XM. Have to remember that part while there still are some left.


There is no official support in CC65 for the 7800 yet. MARIA does have what Atari called "indirect mode" and everybody else called character mode. So its relatively easy to get text on the screen once you have set up the display lists accordingly. You don't need to mess about with font bitmap data directly.

#19 GideonsDad OFFLINE  

GideonsDad

    Moonsweeper

  • 317 posts
  • Location:Zephyrhills, FL

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:49 PM

For those of us using Linux here is a Rogue-like game called Dungeon Crawl (it looks WAY too complex for my taste). It has a tile version and a text version that can run in a console. If you are using Debian / Ubuntu at a command prompt just type - sudo apt-get install crawl

Website - http://crawl.develz....press/downloads

#20 FireStar OFFLINE  

FireStar

    Star Raider

  • 87 posts
  • Location:Georgia, USA

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:56 PM

There is a more modern rogue-like that started as a GBA homebrew called POWDER. It played pretty good for consoles that have no keyboard.

#21 GideonsDad OFFLINE  

GideonsDad

    Moonsweeper

  • 317 posts
  • Location:Zephyrhills, FL

Posted Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:04 PM

There is a more modern rogue-like that started as a GBA homebrew called POWDER. It played pretty good for consoles that have no keyboard.


Here is the POWDER GBA ROM.

They also have versions for:Website - http://www.zincland....?pagename=about

Attached Files



#22 theloon ONLINE  

theloon

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 7,695 posts

Posted Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:18 AM

I've actually played Powder for the GBA and PSP. I should study the way he handles input.

I'm thinking:
Potions -> Short FIRE button press
Scrolls -> Long FIRE button press
Attack -> Contact with enemy
Feed -> Automatic use of equipped food when starvation reached
Armor -> Auto erasure of old armor and equip of new piece.
Weapon -> Auto erasure of old weapon and equip of new piece.
Ring -> Auto erasure of old ring and equip of new piece.
Use Stairwell -> Go upstairs/downstairs on contact.

#23 Godzilla OFFLINE  

Godzilla

    Quadrunner

  • 6,773 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville, Fl

Posted Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:55 AM

I've always loved the item randomization elements, and the general 'you never know what you are going to get'ness of the game. Toe Jam and Earl reminds me of a strange rogue off-breed come to think of it...

#24 high voltage ONLINE  

high voltage

    River Patroller

  • 3,816 posts
  • Location:America, Asia, Europe, Aus, Antartica, Africa, Outer Space

Posted Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:10 AM

Could be done with CompuMate, that'll be ace

#25 theloon ONLINE  

theloon

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 7,695 posts

Posted Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:37 AM

Could be done with CompuMate, that'll be ace


Give me a link where I can purchase one! :)




0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users