Rybags Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Home system palette - ie one that's going to give you a result that looks closest to what your Atari computer will generate on a TV. So, a NTSC based palette if your system is NTSC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) Home system palette - ie one that's going to give you a result that looks closest to what your Atari computer will generate on a TV. So, a NTSC based palette if your system is NTSC. Okay well thanks for clearing that bit up (which is no issue of mine, never was)but your original post still seems discombobulated. One person mentioned that the car looked gold to them in the Corvette picture(an isolated incident) and another person lamented that they wished they had a PAL system still to look at the pictures I made in PAL, so I offered to do a version in NTSC for them and that's it. Edited August 10, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 The lament for PAL is that colour 3 is red and the adjacent colours aren't very close to red, unlike blue which is well covered and green which is almost as good. Just how or why any system would display red as gold/brown is a mystery to me. I'm not sure you could even get that with a badly adjusted colour pot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) The lament for PAL is that colour 3 is red and the adjacent colours aren't very close to red, unlike blue which is well covered and green which is almost as good. Just how or why any system would display red as gold/brown is a mystery to me. I'm not sure you could even get that with a badly adjusted colour pot. My understanding of the lament for PAL was that ALL my image's colors look wrong on NTSC, because I use a PAL palette, and since I don't normally do NTSC, he misses out on seeing them as they should be with PAL versions, and had nothing to do with the color red in particular nor anything to do with the other comment by a totally different person regarding red looking gold. I understood them to be two totally unrelated comments. As to the gold color issue, I agree. Edited August 10, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) 3 different 130XE's and 2 800XL's same gold 'vette reminds me of when they were mucking about with jungle hunt adjustment pal-ntsc.... tree trunk being red/brown versus tree trunk being yellow green etc.... composite/lca/rf all the same.. Samsung shows the same as Olevia Edited August 10, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 OK, I've worked it out. It's actually using colour 2 for the red. You can see this in Altirra - enable the debugger. Then use command GS 170 which will break at that scanline which is mostly the body coloured pixels. Then enter .gtia which will dump the registers. Note the colours - particularly the first 2 players and the first 3 playfield colours listed - all variants of colour 2. I've not got a machine setup but pretty sure that on a real PAL you'd get a reddish gold as well. So the problem isn't with anyone's machine but with the palette used by RC - the conversion uses nearest match based on whatever palette you give it, which in this case seems to not be quite right. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) as I have now started a rasta converted image download frenzy, I do believe notating if it uses pal/ntsc palette on am image might be a good idea, of course posting it both ways would be very cool.. Many look stunning and match just fine comparing online image to actual hardware.. others may not or don't, and you may find needing to switch palette in Altira is needed to make them match as well... It looks solvable.. Since I almost always use real hardware with only what I feel are the crucial fixes I run into stuff fairly often these days Edited August 10, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) Unfortunately to have both PAL and NTSC versions, a complete conversion needs to be done for each, with no guarantee that you'll get the same results with any given image, and oft times completely different Rasta settings are needed to get the desired result. For every image I post, there are an average of a half-dozen to a dozen attempts, each taking hours, letting it run it's course and it got real old real quick back when I was posting both PAL and NTSC versions. Plus, right now I only have a PAL computer, so I can never see actual results for NTSC images on a real NTSC machine either, which is a vital part of the process as to the final image I accept and post, So I never know if my NTSC versions look as good on the real hardware as my PAL images. But all my PAL images are done shooting for the best result on my real Atari and I never even bother to see what they look like on Altirra. My key audience is people that use real Atari's like myself, even then, all Atari's video's are not equal including stock and upgraded. All I ever see for comparison, are the destination image, then the output.png I post here, and what I see on my real PAL Atari as described below (in sig). My current working system is a unique anomaly though, being PAL on a system that never was, and in the middle of the U.S. I also have a couple NTSC machines, but they are not currently working. When they are, I will eventually do more NTSC images. But, most of the time I will still do my Rasta conversions on my PAL hardware, for the full 240 over scan resolution. As to notation of PAL vs. NTSC, I do that if I post both versions or if I make exceptions and do a few NTSC images. Otherwise, if NOT noted, my stuff is always PAL. '57 Chevy. 69 colors. Signal Gasoline station. 72 colors. 57Chevy.xex SignalGas.xex Edited August 10, 2018 by Gunstar 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Corvette NTSC. 98 colors. CorvetteNTSC.xex 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) Thanks but my 800XL is out of adjustment. I could never get it (along with my scan converter) to line up with any palettes available for Rastaconverter. I had to come up with my own palette. After I last posted I remembered that my scan converter does reasonably well with PAL images if I shift the hue 3 steps to the left. Edited August 11, 2018 by a8isa1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 a8 is a1... your images always look nice on my Ataris the corvette is now peach and red... so you might not be out of whack or maybe if you touched because you thought you were it became a self fulfilled situ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Unfortunately to have both PAL and NTSC versions, a complete conversion needs to be done for each, with no guarantee that you'll get the same results with any given image, and oft times completely different Rasta settings are needed to get the desired result. For every image I post, there are an average of a half-dozen to a dozen attempts, each taking hours, letting it run it's course and it got real old real quick back when I was posting both PAL and NTSC versions. Plus, right now I only have a PAL computer, so I can never see actual results for NTSC images on a real NTSC machine either, which is a vital part of the process as to the final image I accept and post, So I never know if my NTSC versions look as good on the real hardware as my PAL images. But all my PAL images are done shooting for the best result on my real Atari and I never even bother to see what they look like on Altirra. My key audience is people that use real Atari's like myself, even then, all Atari's video's are not equal including stock and upgraded. All I ever see for comparison, are the destination image, then the output.png I post here, and what I see on my real PAL Atari as described below (in sig). My current working system is a unique anomaly though, being PAL on a system that never was, and in the middle of the U.S. I also have a couple NTSC machines, but they are not currently working. When they are, I will eventually do more NTSC images. But, most of the time I will still do my Rasta conversions on my PAL hardware, for the full 240 over scan resolution. As to notation of PAL vs. NTSC, I do that if I post both versions or if I make exceptions and do a few NTSC images. Otherwise, if NOT noted, my stuff is always PAL. '57 Chevy. 69 colors. Signal Gasoline station. 72 colors. Amazing results as usual. I love that style of automotive art. I could never get any images of my own vehicles to come out nicely, but given that one car is white and the other is black with some metal flake, there's not much with which to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geister Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Just a comment on the previous discussion about using these pictures in games. Even if they are too big to use in a graphic adventure, they'd still make an amazing splash screen for a game! Load the title screen to show something amazing while the actual program loads. I'd like to see any contemporary computer do a better title screen than one of these pictures. It was literally impossible on any other PC until the IBM with VGA graphics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Signal Gas Station NTSC. 78 colors. SignalGasNTSC.xex 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam242 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Signal Gas Station NTSC. 78 colors. Really like that one. Very crisp and linear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) Really like that one. Very crisp and linear. I do my best, but I can't see them on real hardware myself, so I just hope what I see in the .png output also looks good on real NTSC hardware, I know from experience it isn't always the case with PAL images. There have been some I thought looked great until I loaded them up on my Atari, with the real colors. NTSC averages about a half dozen more colors than PAL, sometimes even more, but images are cropped because it can't display the full 240p resolution like PAL. I could squeeze the entire picture in on NTSC, but the entire image would be less detailed and we need all the detail we can get at this resolution. Edited August 13, 2018 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Turned out well though I'd change the source to make the light and other reflections from the road a bit darker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) Here is the latest, this one I forgot about and it went through a half-billion evaluations, and probably has line errors when viewed on real hardware, I couldn't test for even that, atm, because my Atari is currently in surgery for an upgrade. So let me know if it has errors on a real machine, and I'll redo it. Maybe I got lucky... American Muscle NTSC. 90 colors. AmericanMuscleNTSC.xex Edited August 14, 2018 by Gunstar 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) Diesel Punk robot X-1. 28 colors. Also, lost & found: Steam Punk Enforcer-bot. The .png is still lost. It looks better than the terrible screen shot. DieselPunkX-1.xex SteamPunkEnforcer.xex Edited November 12, 2018 by Gunstar 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Thank you for reviving this thread. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 More to come, just testing the waters, getting back into practice. I've lost a bit of my touch and need to recapture it... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 More to come, just testing the waters, getting back into practice. I've lost a bit of my touch and need to recapture it... I'll watch for your posts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAM Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Thank you for reviving this thread. I hope you don't lock this thread, even though it might take a nap every so often, someone (Gunstar!) always wakes it up every so often with something amazing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) I hope you don't lock this thread, even though it might take a nap every so often, someone (Gunstar!) always wakes it up every so often with something amazing! AFAIK threads are not auto-locked based on non-activity. Some forums do, AA does not. Sometimes threads are necro-bumped from the early 00's. So, no worries, unless this thread gets derailed by politics, religion or other sensitive subjects, it will still be here in ten years Edited November 12, 2018 by ivop 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 AFAIK threads are not auto-locked based on non-activity. Some forums do, AA does not. Sometimes threads are necro-bumped from the early 00's. So, no worries, unless this thread gets derailed by politics, religion or other sensitive subjects, it will still be here in ten years Shall I do some political or religious pictures then? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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