Matej Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) I want to draw picture in GRAFX2 (Win32 pixel) there is ability to setup my own resolution 160x200 with 1:2 pixel range. So now I need palette. How many colors can Rastaconvertor display. Any ATARI PNG palette file??? Edited June 25, 2017 by Matej Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) Rasta converter is 160x240, 128 color palette. And can use ANY .png file image (and I think other formats as well), but I use Infraview and reduce everything to 320x240 and save as .png files to load into Rasta converter. Palette doesn't matter with the source, Rasta changes it to Atari compatible palettes. The Atari palettes Rasta uses are .act palette files, .png is an image format, not a palette file. That's all I know. Edited June 25, 2017 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 I want to draw picture in GRAFX2 (Win32 pixel) there is ability to setup my own resolution 160x200 with 1:2 pixel range. So now I need palette. How many colors can Rastaconvertor display. Any ATARI PNG palette file??? Here's all the RastaConverter Palettes converted to png. For those interested, all palette files consiting of 256*3 RGB values (768 bytes total) can be converted to png by creating header.ppm with the following contents: P6 16 16 255 Then concatenate header.ppm with the .act file: # Linux cat header.ppm altirra.act | pnmtopng > altirra.png # Windows copy /b header.ppm + altirra.act altirra.ppm # Use your favorite tool to convert ppm to png rastapals.zip 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Here are my attempts at using Rastaconverter - don't think these pics have been tried here? woman.xexZaxxon-game.xexLightCycles-AB2600.xexTron-LightCycles.xex One of the light cycles pics is credited to Atariboy2600. Most of these have not been running long for conversion. I tend not to run them for long - but how long does it take for something like that of the Girl with the Pearl Ear ring - 24 hours??? Do all the conversions reach their destination image - if left running for long enough? Have tried a screenshot of the Buck Rogers coin-op (with the large mothership) - but they always come up less than satisfactory... Harvey 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) Time allowed and hundreds of millions of evaluations have never done the trick for me, they never look any better than they did after a few hours and about 50-100 million evals. Ciede color distance takes longer (approximately x4). And running them too long tends to bring out errors that make the picture look worse on real Atari's. The trick to better conversions is all in the color, contrast and gamma settings. Like 90% of issues solved through those settings and it just takes trial and error, though with experience trial and error is reduced. It will almost never reach the point of looking just like the destination picture, unless the source is using 128 colors or less, because the converter output is 160x240 with a palette of 128 colors and on average about half that gets used in the final output. The destination picture is 320x240 with a FULL 256 colors possible displayed from a palette of 256 (assuming the source is 256 or more colors). The destination is what the program strives for, but it's like someone who is at a high school athletic ability, and no chance of getting better, striving to be a pro; it ain't ever going to happen. But, it can reach a varsity level. But with luck every once in a while (like 1 or 2 out of a hundred attempts) it can be a fluke and get to maybe 90% of the destination, but it totally depends on the source, sort of like a varsity player managing to come close to a pro for that one lucky game where everything just happened to go their way. That first Tron picture looks to be about as good as it gets compared to the destination, that's your benchmark attempt here. That's about 90% of destination... Edited June 28, 2017 by Gunstar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Thank you! Now where can I download latest PC version? I have only one of oldest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Here's some more - Emma Peel from The Avengers, Girl with the Pearl Earring, R-Type coin-op screenshots - these R-Types took the less time... EmmaP01.xexGirlPE01.xexrtype-game.xexR-Type-game.xex Harvey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 Thank you! Now where can I download latest PC version? I have only one of oldest... RastaConverter.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) Even though I talk about a 50-100 million evaluations threshold being enough a lot, I have often gone over that, usually, on average, the 150 million range. Sometimes it's as simple as not getting back to it sooner, sometimes it's because the algorithm is still making substantial changes. I generally wait until there are about 1 million evaluations in between any changes to the "last best" of the output image. But the majority of my conversions get to this point between 50-100 million evaluations. After that the percentage of change is so small it's pointless, and also, the longer the run, as I mentioned in a previous post, can cause errors in the image when displayed on a real Atari 8-bit. But from my experience, the difference in real improvement from 50 million to 150 million is less than 5%, an experienced guess. Beyond that, the improvements quickly become fractions of a percent. Edited June 29, 2017 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) The following images have been done with the exact same settings and around the same amount of evalutaions. Differences are do strictly to the palettes. In all cases though, I got the best image I could using a PAL palette, and then only changed to NTSC palette. As you can see, the NTSC palette tends to have around a dozen more colors on average from the images I've converted so far...at least if the same settings are used...but does it mean a better image(especially on a real Atari)? You decide. Altirra Pal palette, AuthenticNTSC palette used in all. Blue Mountain NTSC. 76 colors. Blue Mountain PAL. 61 colors. Busy Bees NTSC. 64 colors. Busy Bees PAL. 53 colors. Stone Bridge NTSC. 77 colors. Stone Bridge PAL. 64 colors. BlueMountainNTSC.xex BlueMountainPAL.xex BusyBeesNTSC.xex BusyBeesPAL.xex StoneBridgeNTSC.xex StoneBridgePAL.xex Edited June 29, 2017 by Gunstar 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Family Farm NTSC. 82 colors. Family Farm PAL. 72 colors. FamilyFarmNTSC.xex FamilyFarmPAL.xex 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Battle Lions NTSC. 82 colors. Battle Lions PAL. 72 colors. High Country NTSC. 91 colors. High Country PAL. 87 colors. BattleLionsNTSC.xex BattleLionsPAL.xex HighCountryNTSC.xex HighCountryPAL.xex 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgh Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 the lake looks nothing but amazing! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1966 Shelby GT350. NTSC, 44 colors. PAL, 36 colors. 1970 Dodge Challenger. NTSC, 55 colors. PAL, 47 colors. 66ShelbyGTNTSC.xex 66ShelbyGTPAL.xex 70DodgeChallengerNTSC.xex 70DodgeChallengerPAL.xex 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 1967 Porsche. NTSC 54 colors. PAL, 50 colors. 67PorscheNTSC.xex 67PorschePAL.xex 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Some more - from Sonic - MegaDrive/Genesis, R-Type coin-op, R-TypeIII - SNES and Contra III - SNES Sonic-01B.xexSonic-02B.xexSonic-03D.xexR-Type-03B.xexR-Type3-SNES-01.xexR-type3-SNES-03C.xexContra3-Snes-01A.xexContra3-05D.xex Harvey 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Everyone just decided to stop posting the source pictures, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) Bently race car. NTSC 72 colors. PAL 59 colors Watson Built race car. NTSC 64 colors. PAL 58 colors. BentlyNTSC.xex BentlyPAL.xex WatsonBuiltNTSC.xex WatsonBuiltPAL.xex Edited July 2, 2017 by Gunstar 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Some more - from Sonic - MegaDrive/Genesis, R-Type coin-op, R-TypeIII - SNES and Contra III - SNES Sonic-G1.pngSonic-G2.pngSonic-G3.pngR-Type-03B.pngR-Type3-SNES-01.pngR-type3-SNES-03C.pngContra3-Snes-01A.pngContra3-05D.png Sonic-01B.xexSonic-02B.xexSonic-03D.xexR-Type-03B.xexR-Type3-SNES-01.xexR-type3-SNES-03C.xexContra3-Snes-01A.xexContra3-05D.xex Harvey I think these are the best video game "screen shots" I've seen so far with RastaConverter. Great work on the conversions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I think these are the best video game "screen shots" I've seen so far with RastaConverter. Great work on the conversions! It's a matter of chance/luck? if they turn out good or not? I'd rate it about 40% success? eg. Buck Rogers and Wonderboy coin-op conversion screenshots look terrible ... But as you can see some do come out rather nice - and if anyone want to capture animations - some game sequences can look nice... Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) If your just throwing stuff at it and seeing what sticks, then yeah, that's luck, good luck at 40%. If you are doing multiple attempts at an image to improve it, changing the values and settings on Rasta, yoo are learning and 40% is good. Nearly every picture I post has gone through 5-10, on average, retries until I fiddle with settings enough to get something I feel is acceptable enough to post, which is about 40% of all the different images I attempt, but, if we are talking about all the attempts on every image I do, the percentage of successes may be in the single digits. I still feel that out of the 60% unsuccessful attempts, better than half of those I can go back to in the future and make successful, either finding better settings on Rasta, or doing a bit of pre-work to the source before putting it through the Rasta grinder. We're turning steaks into meatloaf here, but meatloaf can be damn good if done right! Using default settings expecting good results and not getting them, is default of the user. Edited July 2, 2017 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Some more - from Super Mario World - SNES and Super SWIV - SNES. I just googled screenshots for SMW - whereas I previously used Youtube videos to capture images from gameplay footage. Another game I find too hard to convert images is from SNES's Legend of Zelda game. I'm of two minds as regards these pics to inspire programmers to try to up their work to a high standard. I know it's no easy job to try to come close to these kind of graphics in Atari 8-bit games - but if you have the expertise in using the hardware, it can be possible to produce something remarkably nice - if the time and effort (plus expertise) is put into it. Crownland is such a game that sets the bar very high - for others to try to follow? Harvey SMW-00.xexSMWorld-01.xexSMWorld-02.xexSMWorld-03.xexSMWorld-04.xexSMWorld-06.xexSMW-07.xexSuperSWIV-01.xexSuperSW-02.xex 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) "Cherry" Hot Rod Coupe .Pal, 77 colors. NTSC, 85 colors. I also included a screen shot this time of my 1200XL (PAL) with the SuperVideo 2.1 upgrade including a "fixed" chroma circuit unique to the 1200XL; so all you 1200XL owners know how good your video can be, with true reds and other vibrant colors. Also, just to show how different the colors can look between what you see in a .png image or on an emulator and on real hardware. P.S.-it's still not near as good as the real thing with awesome color saturation, yet absolutely zero bleeding with S-video. CherryCoupeNTSC.xex CherryCoupePAL.xex Edited July 3, 2017 by Gunstar 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+StaxX28 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Cauldron, from the Amstrad CPC version StaxX_Cauldron.xex 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) "Cherry" Hot Rod Coupe .Pal, 77 colors. NTSC, 85 colors. I also included a screen shot this time of my 1200XL (PAL) with the SuperVideo 2.1 upgrade including a "fixed" chroma circuit unique to the 1200XL; so all you 1200XL owners know how good your video can be, with true reds and other vibrant colors. Also, just to show how different the colors can look between what you see in a .png image or on an emulator and on real hardware. P.S.-it's still not near as good as the real thing with awesome color saturation, yet absolutely zero bleeding with S-video. wow! I'm jealous of the vibrancy of the red color. Best I've ever seen on my NTSC monitors and TVs is just a touch better than a sort of crimson red and only by pushing saturation too high making all other colors suffer. p.s. I'm really impressed by your recent conversions of car photographs. Edited July 4, 2017 by a8isa1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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