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#1001 kiwilove OFFLINE  

kiwilove

    Dragonstomper

  • 684 posts
  • Location:Dunedin, New Zealand

Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:34 PM

Some more...

 

Harvey

 

Art-girl.png AeonFlux-fanart.png Anne-Hathaway---.png Frozen-fanart.png MorganFairchild-01-.png MarilynM2.png Samus-02.png SusanSarondon.png Tron-girl.png Venus-02CU.png Robby-StarryNight.png Jeri-Ryan-01.png Jeri-Ryan-02.png Sarah-Connor-.png StarTrek-02.png WonderW-02.png WonderW-03.png Semjase-UFO.png

Attached File  Art-Girl--.xex   21.69KB   4 downloadsAttached File  AeonFlux-fanart-.xex   20.91KB   5 downloadsAttached File  AnneHathaway---.xex   21.77KB   4 downloads[Attached File  Frozen-fanart.xex   21.5KB   4 downloadsAttached File  MorganFairchild-01.xex   21.98KB   3 downloadsAttached File  MarilynM2.xex   21.44KB   3 downloadsAttached File  Samus-02.xex   21.89KB   4 downloadsAttached File  SusanSarandon.xex   21.64KB   3 downloadsAttached File  Venus2-CU.xex   17.2KB   3 downloadsAttached File  Robby-StarryNight.xex   20.3KB   4 downloadsAttached File  JeriRyan-01.xex   16.97KB   3 downloadsAttached File  JeriRyan-02.xex   21.33KB   3 downloadsAttached File  Sarah-Connor-.xex   18.44KB   5 downloadsAttached File  StarTrek-02.xex   21.69KB   4 downloadsAttached File  Semjase-UFO.xex   21.47KB   3 downloads

Attached Files


Edited by kiwilove, Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:48 PM.


#1002 Stephen OFFLINE  

Stephen

    Quadrunner

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  • A8 Gear Head
  • Location:Akron, Ohio

Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:08 PM

Some good, some really bad.  For me, a "Rasta image" is not a good one or successful if there is visible banding.  Sometimes dithering helps.  Sometimes, the picture will never resolve.

 

Unfortunately for me, I can never tell what will work before I start converting an image.



#1003 kiwilove OFFLINE  

kiwilove

    Dragonstomper

  • 684 posts
  • Location:Dunedin, New Zealand

Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:15 PM

Some good, some really bad.  For me, a "Rasta image" is not a good one or successful if there is visible banding.  Sometimes dithering helps.  Sometimes, the picture will never resolve.

 

Unfortunately for me, I can never tell what will work before I start converting an image.

 

It would be nice if there was an easy way to do some relatively easy/minor retouching of the image - so as to remove any stray 'banding' that is still present - or simply to retouch eyes or whatever that need a little work on it.  I'll take a guess there is no easy way to do this? And to add a zoom mode to aid in retouching - would not be an easy thing to add to this program.  Is there a way to export/image an image from this file format - to another program to do retouching? 

 

Harvey



#1004 ilmenit OFFLINE  

ilmenit

    Moonsweeper

  • 397 posts

Posted Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:54 AM

 

It would be nice if there was an easy way to do some relatively easy/minor retouching of the image - so as to remove any stray 'banding' that is still present - or simply to retouch eyes or whatever that need a little work on it.  I'll take a guess there is no easy way to do this? And to add a zoom mode to aid in retouching - would not be an easy thing to add to this program.  Is there a way to export/image an image from this file format - to another program to do retouching? 

 

Harvey

 

The easy retouching is not possible for RastaConverter because of how it works. Every few pixels you have available only 4 colors in a different palette and you cannot change this palette because it influences the rest of the picture.

Tebe added ability to import RC files to Graph2Font for retouching some time ago. While the importing was problematic by itself (differences in GFX emulation) mentioned difficulty of editing discouraged even from fixing the emulation incompatibility.

 

Not all pictures can be converted to look good on Atari. Atari has crazy limitations regarding sprites and color changes and for many pictures these limitations will prevent good output. Still a lot can be done after experimenting with different dithering settings, contrast, saturation, detail mask etc.

Here is a quick convert of a picture that above had very visible banding:

CmdLine: connor.png /dither=line /threads=4 /details=details.png /contrast=20 /details_val=20 /save=100000 /s=100
Having more details on the arms the picture would look quite good:

Inputconnor.png

Detailsdetails.png

Outputoutput.png

Attached Files



#1005 kiwilove OFFLINE  

kiwilove

    Dragonstomper

  • 684 posts
  • Location:Dunedin, New Zealand

Posted Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:12 AM

Here's an attempt at some retouching (adding a little detail to the eye) - taking a snapshot - then using Paint to retouch - then reinput into RastaConverter a 2nd time.

But you can see there is a loss of contrast (detail) present in doing this.  Maybe some other paint program would be better?  But I'm only using Paint and I don't do any artwork on the PC.  Have not gotten doing any more artwork via a paint program since Deluxe Paint II since about the early 90s?

 

The first pic here - is of the normal pic - and the large pic is one I have retouched slightly in parts - before inputting below - as

source / current / destination

So what you need to compare is the first pic with the current pic - to see - was it worthwhile trying to do this?

 

Harvey

 

CharlotteRampling-01-.png Charlotte_Rampling-L3.png Charlotte-WIP.png

 

Attached File  CharlotteRampling-01.xex   20.99KB   6 downloadsAttached File  Charlotte-R03.xex   20.47KB   7 downloads



#1006 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

  • 8,316 posts
  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:04 AM

I guess my advice continues to be overlooked or ignored by most, but I'll give it one more shot.

 

I think too many try and get the algorithm with it's limitations based on the Atari's limitations to conform to the source image. When The source image, through the Rasta settings, must be conformed to the what the Atari is capable of. In this case, there is very subtle shading that just plain cannot be done on the Atari, so you have to make the shading less subtle to fit the Atari's limitations. This means drastic contrast adjustment in the case of this image. You will find by conforming the image to Atari limitations, in the end, makes the results closer to the original source. 

 

But it really does take an artist's eye to get the most out of Rasta Converter, because it really is an artists tool, and not a tool to make you an artist. If you don't have an artists eye, it makes things much more difficult to understand how settings should be adjusted.

 

The most important settings in Rasta Converter, in order, are:

 

1) The best palette choice for the image.

2) Contrast adjustment.

3) Color brightness adjustment.

4) Gamma adjustment.

 

The least important settings:

 

1) Masking-almost worthless, IMHO, and only to be used, if need be once the picture is almost perfect, then, only minute masking in the areas where there is color banding, doing big maskings like ilmenit did doesn't help in my experience (sorry ilmenit).

2) dithering, most of the time it just makes pictures a pixelated mess. In the rare occasions where it can help, use Chess or Knoll dithering, the rest are worthless. And the dithering should be set at default or even REDUCED, increasing just increases the pixelated mess.

 

Like ilmenit, my attempt here is what I consider quick and dirty. I KNOW, I can make it better, and get rid of the last of the color banding, but I'm only doing it to make a point, and it's the best conversion yet, of this image, IMHO.

 

settings:

 

Palatte laoo

color distance YUV

Color brightness -1

Contrast 56

Gamma 1

Solutions 42

Initial state less

evaluations 65 million

Dither NONE

Masking NONE

Threads 2 (I only ever use 1 or 2 threads, I find more than that makes it worse because the individual threads don't always mesh right with each other)

NO pre-adjustments accept resizing to 320x217

My second attempt (my first attempt is ALWAYS with all default settings, even when I know going in that it will need drastic contrast adjustments, see how it is turning out, if by 20 million evals it's not looking acceptable, then start over with new settings and go from there)

 

The name of the game is if at first you don't succeed, try, try again and lots of patience to try and try again.

Attached Thumbnails

  • SaraConner.png

Attached Files


Edited by Gunstar, Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:29 AM.


#1007 ivop OFFLINE  

ivop

    Moonsweeper

  • 364 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:30 AM

...

 /details_val=20

...

 

1) Masking-almost worthless, IMHO, and only to be used, if need be once the picture is almost perfect, then, only minute masking in the areas where there is color banding, doing big maskings like ilmenit did doesn't help in my experience (sorry ilmenit).

 

I was under the same impression, i.e. a detail mask did not have much effect, but I totally overlooked and never used /details_val to make the mask have more influence on the decisions made. Guess I'll have to try it again next time.



#1008 ivop OFFLINE  

ivop

    Moonsweeper

  • 364 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:36 AM

Here's an Amiga picture (Hair Dog by Cougar)

 

46 colours

 

ivop-cougar-hairdog.png

Attached Files



#1009 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

  • 8,316 posts
  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:31 AM

 

 

I was under the same impression, i.e. a detail mask did not have much effect, but I totally overlooked and never used /details_val to make the mask have more influence on the decisions made. Guess I'll have to try it again next time.

Yeah...been there...done that...yes, it has some improving effect...to the detriment of everything outside the mask...I can still get better results just by adjusting contrast, color bright and gamma. But go for it, more power to you. How did it work out for ilmenet, compared to my attempt?

 

My last bit of advice? Go back and look to see which people have the most consistently good/great results and follow their advice on how they do it. If it's ilmenet or Mario or someone else, follow their advice. if it's you, then listen to yourself.

 

Incredible picture above, but then, the less colors the source uses, the easier it is to get great results.


Edited by Gunstar, Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:09 AM.


#1010 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

  • 8,316 posts
  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:08 AM

 

Unfortunately for me, I can never tell what will work before I start converting an image.

That's the reality for everyone. That's why I start with default and move on from there, try, try again. My average is about 5-10 attempts before I get results that are satisfactory to me or I decide it ain't ever going to be! That average is half what it was when I was first getting into it, so you do learn to make educated guesses, but you must start with the default and move on from there.

 

The reality of it for me is that quite often images I think will never work turn out to be the best, in the end, and images I think will be perfect for conversion often turn out to be the ones that never make it.


Edited by Gunstar, Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:18 AM.


#1011 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

  • 8,316 posts
  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:53 PM

By the way, something I have forgotten to mention in all my advice and tips in using Rasta Converter, that some may, or may not have noticed, is that the number of solutions I always use, no matter what the image is, is 42. This seems to make the images always turn out better, but I mainly do it in the hopes that the image I am currently converting, might turn out to be the Ultimate question, to life, the universe and everything. But then, I went quite mad about 30 years ago after reading the Douglas Adams books, so there is that. God, I need a jynnan tonnyx....

 

 

Lost In Space B9. 40 colors.

Attached Thumbnails

  • LIS_b9d.png

Attached Files


Edited by Gunstar, Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:09 PM.


#1012 Stephen OFFLINE  

Stephen

    Quadrunner

  • 6,245 posts
  • A8 Gear Head
  • Location:Akron, Ohio

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:44 PM

Finally - got my rig repaired (Corsair sent out new RAM modules.  Worth paying for lifetime warranty parts).

 

Random google image search:
Original - album.jpg

Output - album.png

Progress - album_progress.png

Executable - Attached File  Stephen_album.xex   22.05KB   10 downloads



#1013 Stephen OFFLINE  

Stephen

    Quadrunner

  • 6,245 posts
  • A8 Gear Head
  • Location:Akron, Ohio

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:17 PM

Frank Zappa - Apostrophe / Overnight Sensation

 

Original - zappa.jpg

Output - zappa_progress.png

Executable - Attached File  Stephen_zappa.xex   19.69KB   9 downloads

 



#1014 Stephen OFFLINE  

Stephen

    Quadrunner

  • 6,245 posts
  • A8 Gear Head
  • Location:Akron, Ohio

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:47 PM

A favourite image of mine, and a terribly hard conversion.  Beautiful girl, looks SO much like my fiancee (but fiancee is 7 inch taller version).

 

Original - isabelle.png

Output - isabelle_progress.png

Executable - Attached File  Stephen_isabelle.xex   22.13KB   8 downloads



#1015 Stephen OFFLINE  

Stephen

    Quadrunner

  • 6,245 posts
  • A8 Gear Head
  • Location:Akron, Ohio

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:53 PM

Just a teaser - "Douchebag":

Output - douchebag.png

Executable - Attached File  Stephen_douchebag.xex   18.9KB   8 downloads



#1016 Stephen OFFLINE  

Stephen

    Quadrunner

  • 6,245 posts
  • A8 Gear Head
  • Location:Akron, Ohio

Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:59 PM

Here's an Amiga picture (Hair Dog by Cougar)

 

46 colours

 

attachicon.gifivop-cougar-hairdog.png

Better than my attempt (9/7/16)

Original - Cougar_HairDog.tft21.png

Output - output.png

Executable - Attached File  Stephen_dog.xex   22.24KB   12 downloads



#1017 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

  • 8,316 posts
  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:00 AM

Better than my attempt (9/7/16)

Original - attachicon.gifCougar_HairDog.tft21.png

Output - attachicon.gifoutput.png

Executable - attachicon.gifStephen_dog.xex

I think the issue here is the palette choice. It looks to me as if you used either laoo or jakub, and I think Ivop used Altirra (the one I use 99% of the time). laoo and jakub palettes have more muted colors, good for skin tones like Sara Conner above, but the deep browns and reddish colors of Ivop's hairdog look like Altirra palette. That's my guess.



#1018 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

  • 8,316 posts
  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:04 AM

A favourite image of mine, and a terribly hard conversion.  Beautiful girl, looks SO much like my fiancee (but fiancee is 7 inch taller version).

 

Original - attachicon.gifisabelle.png

Output - attachicon.gifisabelle_progress.png

Executable - attachicon.gifStephen_isabelle.xex

I think you got the original and output pics mixed up here... ;)



#1019 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

  • 8,316 posts
  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:07 AM

Finally - got my rig repaired (Corsair sent out new RAM modules.  Worth paying for lifetime warranty parts).

 

Random google image search:
Original - attachicon.gifalbum.jpg

Output - attachicon.gifalbum.png

Progress - attachicon.gifalbum_progress.png

Executable - attachicon.gifStephen_album.xex

Funny you should pick a "polygon" picture, I woke up this morning deciding to attempt some images of some polygon game screen shots!







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