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#2026 SpikedRN OFFLINE  

SpikedRN

    Space Invader

  • 21 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:01 AM

Images are from the Sega Genesis/Megadrive game Gaiares, and from Blue Lightning on the Atari Lynx.

 

Gaiares12.1.png

Attached File  Gaiares12.1.xex   20.89KB   24 downloads

 

Gaiares11.1.png

Attached File  Gaiares11.1.xex   20.82KB   20 downloads

 

Gaiares10.1.png

Attached File  Gaiares10.1.xex   20.86KB   16 downloads

 

BlueL02.png

Attached File  BlueL02.xex   21.05KB   16 downloads



#2027 SpikedRN OFFLINE  

SpikedRN

    Space Invader

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  • Location:USA

Posted Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:13 PM

I'm sharing a copy of the batch file that I use with RastaConverter in the hopes that somebody else may find it useful. I'm running an AMD Ryzen CPU with 8 cores and 16 threads, and I have found that by carefully selecting which CPU cores the processes run on I can greatly improve efficiency and throughput. For me I have 2 "core complexes," and if I make sure each process has all of its threads on the same complex it helps tremendously. With 4 instances of RastaConverter running simultaneously I'm getting around 120,000 to 140,000 evals/s using the settings in the batch file. I find that 4 threads per process seems to be the sweet spot for me, anything higher and I start to see greatly increased kernel CPU usage -- probably related to increased interprocess communication and coherency. Using the Windows start /AFFINITY feature makes it easy to get the processes running on the correct CPU cores.

 

I use 8 batch files, starting with rasta1.bat through rasta4.bat, and then rasta1d.bat (for dithering) through rasta4d.bat. The parameter for start /AFFINITY is a binary mask to select logical CPU cores, and each batch file is adjusted to start on the desired group of cores. So "F" would be 1111 or the first 4 cores. "F000" is 1111 0000 0000 0000 or the last 4 cores. See attached calc image for an example. My source images are in the directory above hence the /i=..\. Also, for some reason Windows decided to switch to powershell instead of the command prompt so I adjusted the batch file accordingly.

@echo off
if "%1"=="" goto usage
start /AFFINITY F000 .\RastaConverter.exe /i=..\%1 /pal=ntsc30 /contrast=%2 /brightness=%3 /gamma=%4 /s=10000 /threads=4 /distance=cie94 /dither=jarvis
goto end

:usage
echo Usage ./rasta.bat input_file c b g (where contrast=[-100,100], brightness=[-100,100], gamma=[0.0,8.0])

:end
pause

calc.png

 

taskman.png

 

Rasta.png

 

 

Please let me know if anybody finds this information helpful!

 

 


Edited by SpikedRN, Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:33 PM.


#2028 SpikedRN OFFLINE  

SpikedRN

    Space Invader

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Posted Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:03 AM

First up are a couple of "what if?" pictures from the Sega Genesis/Megadrive. What if we had games for the Atari with title screens that looked this good? I mean the computer can display it right, so it's within the realm of possibility?

 

SEGA.png

Attached File  SEGA.xex   20.27KB   10 downloads

 

castle3.png

Attached File  castle3.xex   21.14KB   13 downloads

 

 

I couldn't decide which ForestLake01 I liked better, so I kept them both. Which one does everybody like better? These went for about 1.4B evals.

 

SpikedRN.ForestLake01.png

Attached File  SpikedRN.ForestLake01.xex   22.09KB   20 downloads

 

SpikedRN.ForestLake01.Dither.png

Attached File  SpikedRN.ForestLake01.Dither.xex   22.05KB   18 downloads

 

 

Here's a couple more...

 

ForestLake02.png

Attached File  ForestLake02.xex   19.92KB   15 downloads

 

synth02.png

Attached File  synth02.xex   22.17KB   17 downloads

 

I've got a few more that I'm working on that look promising -- I'll probably post them in a few days. These all look great on my 800xl and Trinitron monitor.

 

I'm hoping a black line in this one will resolve...

 

sunset01.png

 

 

Happy converting!


Edited by SpikedRN, Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:05 AM.


#2029 Rybags OFFLINE  

Rybags

    Gridrunner

  • 16,144 posts
  • Location:Australia

Posted Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:51 AM

Forest lake - I reckon the non dithered landscape + sky with the dithered water for what that's worth.



#2030 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

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Posted Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:33 AM

No .xex for the tropical sunset? If you have line segment errors showing up, like the black line you mention, that is due to to many evaluations and the only thing that can be done is stopping the image before this happens, from my VAST experience, I always keep evaluations between 100-150 million to avoid it, These errors only show up on real hardware. if the picture isn't good enough by then, you didn't start out with good settings. All of my images posted are between 50-150 million evaluations, which proves it can be done well within that. But then, even though I post some of the best images, it seems like no one ever takes my advice on these things, so whatever...good luck and nice pics!


Edited by Gunstar, Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:38 AM.


#2031 SpikedRN OFFLINE  

SpikedRN

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Posted Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:55 AM

No .xex for the tropical sunset? If you have line segment errors showing up, like the black line you mention, that is due to to many evaluations and the only thing that can be done is stopping the image before this happens, from my VAST experience, I always keep evaluations between 100-150 million to avoid it, These errors only show up on real hardware. if the picture isn't good enough by then, you didn't start out with good settings. All of my images posted are between 50-150 million evaluations, which proves it can be done well within that. But then, even though I post some of the best images, it seems like no one ever takes my advice on these things, so whatever...good luck and nice pics!

 
I wanted to let the tropical sunset pic run a while longer as a test to see if it would maybe go back over the spot with the black line, but it never did resolve. I normally will let my images continue to run if I can still see visible changes happening and the normal distance is improving, and on some of the more complex ones this continues to happen well into the hundreds of millions of evals. I'm not convinced too many evals will cause issues. I started the tropical sunset image over and had a busy couple days at work and didn't have time to mess with it -- when I stopped it just now it was at 4.3 billion evals! I do appreciate your advice Gunstar, and I actually follow some of it :-)
 
sunset01.png
Attached File  sunset01.xex   20.71KB   18 downloads
 
CyberShadow_08.png
Attached File  CyberShadow_08.xex   20.35KB   18 downloads
 
CyberShadow_10.png
Attached File  CyberShadow_10.xex   20.74KB   17 downloads
 
ForestLake03.png
Attached File  ForestLake03.xex   22.13KB   20 downloads
 
solar01.png
Attached File  solar01.xex   20.76KB   17 downloads
 
leaves01.png
Attached File  leaves01.xex   20.74KB   20 downloads

Edited by SpikedRN, Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:25 AM.


#2032 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

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Posted Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:00 AM

 
I wanted to let the tropical sunset pic run a while longer as a test to see if it would maybe go back over the spot with the black line, but it never did resolve. I normally will let my images continue to run if I can still see visible changes happening and the normal distance is improving, and on some of the more complex ones this continues to happen well into the hundreds of millions of evals. I'm not convinced too many evals will cause issues. I started the tropical sunset image over and had a busy couple days at work and didn't have time to mess with it -- when I stopped it just now it was at 4.3 billion evals! I do appreciate your advice Gunstar, and I actually follow some of it :-)
 

Well, looking at all of these images, though on a PAL computer, so the colors are wrong and what I think is an error could just be my PAL Atari's color palette screwing it up, and not one of the line-segment errors (my term, there's actually a technical explanation below), but I only see what might be one in the leaves picture, so you seem to be evading this error. I reiterate that this only shows up when viewing the .xex's on real hardware.

 

But for me it seems to occur 99% of the time with more than 150 million evaluations, at which time it drops to about 50% of the time and 110 million evaluations has been the sweet spot for me of being 99% sure of no errors when I finally view the .xex on my real machine. So I have learned to do adjustments to my images before running it to get the quality of images I do between 50-150 million evaluations. My average is 110 million, but sometimes the image conversion looks great by 50 million, so I stop it to move on to another and to just not take the chance of having to start over due to the error, since the conversion is already so good at that point.

 

I will do some further experimentation doing billions of evaluations though, but in most of the other people's images that are posted, who run it for hundreds of millions of billions of evaluations the line-segment errors show up on my computer. But maybe it's just my wacky "Frankenputer" Atari with all it's mods and upgrades causing it and others don't get the errors when viewing them like I do. Maybe is my choice of custom OS, I'll try looking at some older images again with the standard XL/XE OS...but the error is a real one that is known to occur. as I've posted before from another thread. 

 

ilmenit, on 21 Feb 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:snapback.png

That is correct. The bug happens when sprite is repositioned to a position where it overlaps the previous position of the same sprite. Therefore it happens e.g. when register HPOSPx is set to a new position in range HPOSPx-SpriteWidth to HPOSPx+SpriteWidth. RastaConverter in this case needs to decide how to fill sprite memory with such overlap and it does it improperly. At the time of development I had no real Atari and I used Altirra Hardware Reference manual + Altirra emulator for testing. Phaeron later fixed the bug in the emulator to have it behaving like real Atari but the bug wasn't applied to RC due to lack of my personal time to continue to work on RC.

It happens rarely, mostly during the long optimization process when optimizations are getting really to extreme. In such case the only really option is to start conversion again. Due to non-deterministic optimization process there is a high chance that the bug won't appear in the other conversion.

The part I have in bold I have NOT found to be the case, in my experience it's just the opposite, a constant high chance of it happening almost every time, but there have been a couple images I posted that I forgot about and did run into the billions that did manage not to have it occur. But this is about one or two percent of the time in my experience. Now the error doesn't always appear in the exact same place on the image, but an error does occur somewhere, usually close to the first error.


Edited by Gunstar, Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:21 AM.


#2033 SpikedRN OFFLINE  

SpikedRN

    Space Invader

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  • Location:USA

Posted Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:25 PM

Well, looking at all of these images, though on a PAL computer, so the colors are wrong and what I think is an error could just be my PAL Atari's color palette screwing it up, and not one of the line-segment errors (my term, there's actually a technical explanation below), but I only see what might be one in the leaves picture, so you seem to be evading this error. I reiterate that this only shows up when viewing the .xex's on real hardware.
 
But for me it seems to occur 99% of the time with more than 150 million evaluations, at which time it drops to about 50%...

Thanks for the detailed info on this bug. I'll have to get into the habit of checking my images on real hardware around 50m evals if it still looks like it's going to resolve more detail and I need to let it run longer.

As for the colors, I found settings that look good on my NTSC hardware, but I think I'll run some PAL images too. What's a good palette to use? Laoo?

Edited by SpikedRN, Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:33 PM.


#2034 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

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Posted Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:30 PM

Thanks for the detailed info on this bug. I'll have to get into the habit of checking my images on real hardware around 50m evals if it still looks like it's going to resolve more detail and I need to let it run longer.

As for the colors, I found settings that look good on my NTSC hardware, but I think I'll run some PAL images too. What's a good palette to use? Laoo?

It really depends, my go to is the Altirra palette for 90% of my images, but if I'm doing images with flesh tones and more earthy colors then I usually see which looks best between Laoo, OlivierP and Jakub. 



#2035 SpikedRN OFFLINE  

SpikedRN

    Space Invader

  • 21 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:26 AM

Here's some PAL love for my Atari 8-bit friends!

 

Synth02.PAL.png

Attached File  Synth02.PAL.xex   21.97KB   18 downloads

 

Here's how this one looks on my NTSC system...

HW-Synth02-PAL.png

 

And here's the NTSC version that I posted earlier.

HW-Synth02-NTSC.png

 

Sunset01.PAL.png

Attached File  Sunset01.PAL.xex   20.55KB   13 downloads

 

PAL version on NTSC

HW-Sunset01-PAL.png

 

NTSC version

HW-Sunset01-NTSC.png

 

Forestlake01.PAL.png

Attached File  Forestlake01.PAL.xex   22.26KB   17 downloads

 

PAL version on NTSC

HW-Forestlake01-PAL.png

 

NTSC version

HW-Forestlake01-NTSC.png

 

Forestlake02.PAL.png

Attached File  Forestlake02.PAL.xex   19.95KB   13 downloads

 

Forestlake03.PAL.png

Attached File  Forestlake03.PAL.xex   22.19KB   15 downloads

 

 



#2036 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

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  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:17 AM

Thanks for the detailed info on this bug. I'll have to get into the habit of checking my images on real hardware around 50m evals if it still looks like it's going to resolve more detail and I need to let it run longer.

As for the colors, I found settings that look good on my NTSC hardware, but I think I'll run some PAL images too. What's a good palette to use? Laoo?

It's probably safe to let it run to about 75 or 100m evals before you check, if it's not resolved enough in 50. But I do recommend practicing getting the right settings before running so that the picture is about 90% by the time it hits 50m, it makes for much better pictures even if you do run them longer, IMHO. Judge my advice by my submissions, that's all I have to say about it. One thing I do use the 50m mark for is if the picture isn't looking 90% by then, I stop, re-adjust settings and start over; save a LOT of wasted time...


Edited by Gunstar, Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:19 AM.


#2037 a8isa1 OFFLINE  

a8isa1

    Stargunner

  • 1,564 posts

Posted Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:09 PM

[NTSC]

31 colors, saturation=30

stream_in_woods_atari800_screenshot.png

Attached File  a8isa1_stream_in_woods.xex   22.37KB   23 downloads

 

[NTSC]

36 colors, saturation=40

beach4_atari800_screenshot.png

Attached File  a8isa1_beach4.xex   22.3KB   24 downloads


Edited by a8isa1, Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:10 PM.


#2038 a8isa1 OFFLINE  

a8isa1

    Stargunner

  • 1,564 posts

Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:00 PM

[NTSC]

36 colors, saturation=40

attachicon.gifbeach4_atari800_screenshot.png

attachicon.gifa8isa1_beach4.xex

hmm, the beach pic looks a bit ugly on my phone.  Looks great on my laptop. *shrug*



#2039 SpikedRN OFFLINE  

SpikedRN

    Space Invader

  • 21 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted Tue May 7, 2019 11:03 AM

Castle2b.png
Attached File  Castle2b.xex   20.61KB   11 downloads
Attached File  Castle2b.pal.xex   20.57KB   10 downloads
 
Gaiares16.png
Attached File  Gaiares16.xex   20.94KB   10 downloads
Attached File  Gaiares16.pal.xex   20.68KB   13 downloads
 
MM2.stageselect5.png
Attached File  MM2.stageselect5.xex   20.82KB   9 downloads
Attached File  MM2.stageselect5.PAL.xex   20.98KB   8 downloads

 

 

 

 

Attached Files



#2040 SpikedRN OFFLINE  

SpikedRN

    Space Invader

  • 21 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted Fri May 17, 2019 12:34 PM

Hey Atari friends! I thought it would be fun to see how well our Atari can do when compared to the NES. I think the 6502+ANTIC+CTIA trio do an amazing job here, but feel free to judge for yourself!

 

First I have some images from Contra on the NES. Seems like the Atari can easily reproduce the graphics. Some of you may know this game as Probotector.

 

srn-contra01.png

Attached File  srn-contra01.xex   20.99KB   16 downloads

Attached File  srn-contra01-pal.xex   20.9KB   9 downloads

 

 

srn-contra02.png

Attached File  srn-contra02.xex   20.75KB   5 downloads

Attached File  srn-contra02-pal.xex   20.62KB   6 downloads

 

 

srn-contra03.png

Attached File  srn-contra03.xex   20.85KB   5 downloads

Attached File  srn-contra03-pal.xex   20.73KB   6 downloads

 

 

srn-contra03b.png

Attached File  srn-contra03b.xex   20.76KB   8 downloads

Attached File  srn-contra03b-pal.xex   20.71KB   8 downloads

 

 

srn-contra03c.png

Attached File  srn-contra03c.xex   20.95KB   7 downloads

Attached File  srn-contra03c-pal.xex   20.9KB   3 downloads

 

 

Here are a few from Super C on the NES.

 

srn-superc01.png

Attached File  srn-superc01.xex   20.79KB   7 downloads

 

 

srn-superc03.png

Attached File  srn-superc03.xex   20.9KB   6 downloads

Attached File  srn-superc03-pal.xex   20.95KB   6 downloads

 

 

srn-superc04b.png

Attached File  srn-superc04b.xex   20.73KB   7 downloads

Attached File  srn-superc04b-pal.xex   21.01KB   6 downloads

 

 

The Atari makes the NES graphics look easy, so how about if I step it up to the Megadrive?

 

Here's Streets of Rage 2

 

srn-sor2-10b.png

Attached File  srn-sor2-10b.xex   20.67KB   10 downloads

Attached File  srn-sor2-10b-pal.xex   20.7KB   6 downloads

 

 

srn-sor2-12b.png

Attached File  srn-sor2-12b.xex   20.74KB   5 downloads

Attached File  srn-sor2-12b-pal.xex   20.71KB   6 downloads

 

 

srn-sor2-5b.png

Attached File  srn-sor2-5b.xex   20.78KB   8 downloads

Attached File  srn-sor2-5b-pal.xex   20.55KB   13 downloads

 

 

I'm honestly amazed at how well the Atari does with these. What do you think?



#2041 JAC! OFFLINE  

JAC!

    Stargunner

  • 1,845 posts
  • Always looking for GFX and MSX for my demos
  • Location:Lebach, Germany

Posted Sat May 18, 2019 2:43 AM

I'm honestly amazed at how well the Atari does with these. What do you think?

Yes, they look really good. Good choice of source material and thanks for providing both PAL & NTSC.



#2042 Sugarland OFFLINE  

Sugarland

    Moonsweeper

  • 260 posts

Posted Yesterday, 12:30 AM

 

I'm honestly amazed at how well the Atari does with these. What do you think?

 

These are wonderful thank you. Is there a way to slideshow them? Would love to have the A8 sit and automatically cycle many images every 5 or so seconds with a smooth transition (no loading screen, etc).


Edited by Sugarland, Yesterday, 12:30 AM.


#2043 Rybags OFFLINE  

Rybags

    Gridrunner

  • 16,144 posts
  • Location:Australia

Posted Yesterday, 12:36 AM

There's not really a way to display as well as load using SIO devices - almost all cycles are consumed by the RC kernal.

 

With IDE class devices it could probably be achieved - losing 2/3rds of the CPU per frame would mean slowdown but given we've had FMV + audio with IDE it should be doable here also.



#2044 Rybags OFFLINE  

Rybags

    Gridrunner

  • 16,144 posts
  • Location:Australia

Posted Yesterday, 4:46 AM

Alternate to that - a RAMdisk though at an average of a bit over 20K per picture a 130XE might buffer 3 of them in extended Ram.



#2045 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

  • 10,246 posts
  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Yesterday, 8:22 AM

 

These are wonderful thank you. Is there a way to slideshow them? Would love to have the A8 sit and automatically cycle many images every 5 or so seconds with a smooth transition (no loading screen, etc).

A batch file through SDX can achieve a "slide-show" and near-instant loading when combined with APT partitions on a SiDE 2/MyIDE II or other similar solutions.

 

Just such an example of a batch file was posted in this thread some time ago. It can probably be found by searching this thread with key words like SDX and batch.



#2046 rdea6 OFFLINE  

rdea6

    River Patroller

  • 2,836 posts
  • Location:Arizona USA

Posted Yesterday, 11:21 AM

LS.COM is a SpartaDos X toolkit program. and the syntax is LS A*.XEX >>ALLA.BAT. continuing on next lines all the way to Z*.XEX.  Then just sit back with joystick after typing the -allg and press trigger to advance next file.



#2047 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

  • 10,246 posts
  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Yesterday, 8:06 PM

Requiem For Methuselah. 60 colors.

Attached Thumbnails

  • RequiemForMethuselah.png

Attached Files



#2048 Rybags OFFLINE  

Rybags

    Gridrunner

  • 16,144 posts
  • Location:Australia

Posted Yesterday, 11:58 PM

Background of that very much reminds me of Another World.



#2049 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

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  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Today, 12:10 AM

Background of that very much reminds me of Another World.

Well it is suppose to be of another world silly! ;)  Seriously though, I agree.







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