Jump to content

Photo

What's the next big thing?


43 replies to this topic

#26 SlowCoder OFFLINE  

SlowCoder

    River Patroller

  • 3,686 posts
  • Location:Florida, US

Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012 2:43 PM

Seriously, all this motion control and webcam stuff is crap.

Why is a technology that is supposed to involve more of your body than just your thumbs considered crap? I've enjoyed the Wii with its motion controls. I get to bowl, play tennis and shoot archery with my kids, right there in my living room. Not to mention, I have used the Wii-Fit board a few times. It's not perfect, but at least I'm not sitting on my ass all the time.

I don't have an XBox 360, but if I did I might consider getting the camera. My kids would probably love all the dancing and other full-body games.

#27 macgoo OFFLINE  

macgoo

    Chopper Commander

  • 165 posts

Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012 3:38 PM


Seriously, all this motion control and webcam stuff is crap.

Why is a technology that is supposed to involve more of your body than just your thumbs considered crap? I've enjoyed the Wii with its motion controls. I get to bowl, play tennis and shoot archery with my kids, right there in my living room. Not to mention, I have used the Wii-Fit board a few times. It's not perfect, but at least I'm not sitting on my ass all the time.

I don't have an XBox 360, but if I did I might consider getting the camera. My kids would probably love all the dancing and other full-body games.


Well you just answered your own question with 'I don't have an Xbox 360' because playing need for speed most wanted on Wii is just a piss about party game type thing with highly innaccurate control of your car on screen, certainly not pixel perfect control, playing the same game with the 360 joypad on Xbox however becomes an art form and demonstration of pixel perfect placement of your front wheels at the corners apex to balance and steer the car PERFECTLY to 1/1920th of the width of the screen.....ipso facto not just a toy but a very satisfying feeling of 100% BEING IN CONTROL of your car on screen.

So like I said it is junk for real gaming. Wii owners are not interested in real games, it is just a party toy like pissing about on karaoke machines in the bar. It certainly is nothing like games of skill like all gaming has been from 1977 on VCS to 2007 when Wii came out. In fact Kinect is the same rubbish as those 1987 childrens TV game shows using an Amiga 1000, realtime digitizer, genlock and video camera where the child sees themselves on a big television genlocked over a spiders web and they have to hit the fly and kick it. These are not my kind of games and require 50% luck because the control is not accurate.

When we can do what they do in The Matrix let me know, until then you can flush my reserved Wiimote and Xbox Kinect down the toilet and hand me my 360 pad and a copy of Colin McRae Dirt 3 or something thanks :D

Edit: Accelerometer/free space controllers and camera based gaming is not new, Google Le Stick (looks and works bit like Wii-mote but as a digital joystick) and also "The Games Machine" magazine A1000 TV show BUG to see how they work. I don't have a problem with them as an additional things to have but my god imagine if the Sega Dreamcast ONLY had those silly fishing rod and Maracas controller games and no other games like VF3, Soul Calibre, F355 challenge, Sonic Adventure etc etc. Fun is OK for a while but then I want my controller back to play proper games not something to replace the Twister mat/Karaoke machine on party night.

Edited by macgoo, Thu Aug 9, 2012 3:43 PM.


#28 SlowCoder OFFLINE  

SlowCoder

    River Patroller

  • 3,686 posts
  • Location:Florida, US

Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012 4:10 PM

Well you just answered your own question with 'I don't have an Xbox 360' because playing need for speed most wanted on Wii is just a piss about party game type thing with highly innaccurate control of your car on screen, certainly not pixel perfect control, playing the same game with the 360 joypad on Xbox however becomes an art form and demonstration of pixel perfect placement of your front wheels at the corners apex to balance and steer the car PERFECTLY to 1/1920th of the width of the screen.....ipso facto not just a toy but a very satisfying feeling of 100% BEING IN CONTROL of your car on screen.

It sounds like you're a racing fan. So am I. I've got the full GT series, as well as Dirt 1-3 for a close-to-real-life experience, MotorStorm 1-3, and a few other more arcadish racers, too. :) Where you say you like to use your "accurate" 360 controller, I like to use a wheel and pedals, because I find that setup much more accurate than the standard controller.

So like I said it is junk for real gaming. Wii owners are not interested in real games, it is just a party toy like pissing about on karaoke machines in the bar. It certainly is nothing like games of skill like all gaming has been from 1977 on VCS to 2007 when Wii came out. In fact Kinect is the same rubbish as those 1987 childrens TV game shows using an Amiga 1000, realtime digitizer, genlock and video camera where the child sees themselves on a big television genlocked over a spiders web and they have to hit the fly and kick it. These are not my kind of games and require 50% luck because the control is not accurate.

When we can do what they do in The Matrix let me know, until then you can flush my reserved Wiimote and Xbox Kinect down the toilet and hand me my 360 pad and a copy of Colin McRae Dirt 3 or something thanks :D

Very generalized statement. I am a Wii owner, as well as a PS3 owner. I like games from both systems.

So your definition of a "real game" is one where everything has to be perfect and as real-life as possible to the hardware it's running on, and if the controllers aren't picture-perfect accurate, they're junk?

Does this mean any game that runs on any console older than 6th generation just isn't "real"? My definition of a game, any game, is something that is entertaining, enjoyable and fun to play.

But going back to my original point, just because the Wii controllers aren't perfect by today's standards, doesn't mean they're not fun to play with. And I get a lot of fun out of running around the living room with my kids playing "swords".

#29 chrisballer OFFLINE  

chrisballer

    Chopper Commander

  • Topic Starter
  • 198 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012 6:41 PM

I checked out some youtube videos lately, and sony sells a VR headset already for $799. I was not aware of this, but the guys in the review video thought it was pretty awesome. I will have to look more into this.

#30 AtariLeaf OFFLINE  

AtariLeaf

    Quadrunner

  • 8,571 posts
  • Location:Ontario Canada

Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012 6:46 PM

So like I said it is junk for real gaming. Wii owners are not interested in real games


Sorry but this statement pisses me off. The inference that anyone who enjoys the Wii and its controllers isn't playing a "real" video game is about as bullshit a statement as I've seen on this website for a long time.

Edited by AtariLeaf, Thu Aug 9, 2012 6:48 PM.


#31 HatefulGravey OFFLINE  

HatefulGravey

    River Patroller

  • 2,356 posts
  • A ROM image is no way to live.
  • Location:Georgia

Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012 7:47 PM

These motion control games aren't my thing, but I certainly wouldn't say games aren't "real games" if they use them.

That said if motion controls are the next big thing I'm out. When I want to move around like that I go for a jog or something like that. I just don't enjoy gaming like that. Hell, more and more I only really enjoy games with a high score. Just kind of the thing I'm most into right now.

I really don't know what I want I want the next big thing to be. I'm happy where we are truth be told. It could be better for all the reasons everyone here mentions every time the chance comes up, but I don't need anything more then I have.

#32 King_Salamon OFFLINE  

King_Salamon

    River Patroller

  • 2,099 posts
  • Location:Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012 10:58 PM

That's the best part about the next big thing... It may sound obscure or may not even make sense but then Boom it'll hit.

And whether that happens this or 5 years from now, it'll be awesome!

For me... Fallout 4 will be the next big thing! Bring it on!

#33 Petran79 OFFLINE  

Petran79

    Chopper Commander

  • 203 posts

Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:02 AM

The vast majority of game controllers cater to the thumb generation. While for cell phone games and portable consoles they are justified, regarding desktop consoles at least, things should start to change.

motion controls have certainly their issues, but Dual Shock controllers that dominate for 15 years need also to change sometime.
Why being forced to use the thumbs, when all fingers and also the wrists should be used for gaming.
Thumbs in mobile gaming and cell phones, thumbs in portable consoles, thumbs in desktop consoles, thumbs on PC if you use a gamepad!

Cheap arcade sticks are certainly a breakthrough! because with arcades gone long ago or very expensive, most people are not familiar, even though they are more comfortable than a gamepad.

I too grew with the NES and Gameboy but when I moved to PC gaming, keyboard and mouse required more engagement.
I'd have issues had I just used a Dual Shock controller. For fighters I use a stick, for platformers a pad (due to NES and Gameboy), for FPS a keyboard and mouse, for flight sims a flight stick and for racing games a wheel. I use keyboard also if there is no other alternative.

Games certainly change, but habits not so....

#34 HatefulGravey OFFLINE  

HatefulGravey

    River Patroller

  • 2,356 posts
  • A ROM image is no way to live.
  • Location:Georgia

Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:53 AM

Different controller for different games is a thing that seems to be only for gamers. The person that picks up a game every now and then could care less for that stuff. You really need to be into a certain kind of game to justify the extra cost of the special controller for a type of game. I have a fight stick for fighting game, and I've had a few wheels but they never work right for what I want. Most people I know have the standard controller that works well enough for everything.

I would be ok with a keyboard and mouse working with the next consoles for FPS games. The arguement that it creates an unfair advantage for some if crap. Play with what suits you best and there is no advantage. The next consoles should be more computer than console anyway, so lets get it right this time.

#35 SlowCoder OFFLINE  

SlowCoder

    River Patroller

  • 3,686 posts
  • Location:Florida, US

Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:08 AM

Different controller for different games is a thing that seems to be only for gamers. The person that picks up a game every now and then could care less for that stuff. You really need to be into a certain kind of game to justify the extra cost of the special controller for a type of game. I have a fight stick for fighting game, and I've had a few wheels but they never work right for what I want. Most people I know have the standard controller that works well enough for everything.

I would be ok with a keyboard and mouse working with the next consoles for FPS games. The arguement that it creates an unfair advantage for some if crap. Play with what suits you best and there is no advantage. The next consoles should be more computer than console anyway, so lets get it right this time.

This whole post is excellently thought out, and I am in 100% agreement. Some controllers are better than others for certain types of games, OR for person playing the games.

#36 Reaperman OFFLINE  

Reaperman

    River Patroller

  • 4,827 posts
  • Location:New Orleans, LA

Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:30 AM

I think the 'next big thing' will be games keeping a closer eye on what we're doing in the room to subtly adjust game play. This is our next step in 'vitual reality.'

Right now, the motion-capture cameras are starting to work as secondary controllers. They're providing POV in some flight and driving games, and in general working 'with' more standard control setups rather than just 'instead' of them. POV that we don't even have to think about, it just happens. You lean, twist your head, or even just move your eyes and your perspective slightly adjusts--in a much more 'background' fashion than today, and in far more games.

Perhaps this will even work alongside 3d, but I see the current shutter-glasses-are-back trend going away pretty quickly.

Edited by Reaperman, Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:33 AM.


#37 SlowCoder OFFLINE  

SlowCoder

    River Patroller

  • 3,686 posts
  • Location:Florida, US

Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:43 AM

but I see the current shutter-glasses-are-back trend going away pretty quickly.

Gosh, I hope so! I've tried these things in the store, and I don't see what's so great about them, or 3D TV in general. On top of the price, the glasses are one thing I know I wouldn't want to deal with on a daily basis. Once I got over the whole "wow, 3D!" thing, which honestly wouldn't take long, they'd probably just get shelved and my TV converted back to 2D.

#38 macgoo OFFLINE  

macgoo

    Chopper Commander

  • 165 posts

Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:04 AM


So like I said it is junk for real gaming. Wii owners are not interested in real games


Sorry but this statement pisses me off. The inference that anyone who enjoys the Wii and its controllers isn't playing a "real" video game is about as bullshit a statement as I've seen on this website for a long time.


Because you are attaching emotion to the issue. Did you google the Amiga 1000 TV show thing that is EXACTLY like Kinect gaming today? Did you google image search the Le Stick joystick or the Steering wheel you hold in the air like the one you attach on the Wii-mote which allowed you to play Lotus Challenge 2 on an Amiga or Atari ST. I am pointing out facts, you are pointing out emotional subjective preference for an improvement to an already existing alternative way of using game consoles or computers for entertainment. Financially Wii is not outselling BOTH PS3 and 360 and even Kinect/Wii/PS3 Move games combined do not sell more than traditionally controlled games.

The simple fact is games using some sort of joystick have existed since Atari's 1972 Space War cabinet. The Wii/Kinect/Move are something else. The fact that they run on a 360 or PS3 is neither here nor there. You can use an internal combustion engine with 4 wheels suspension and steering to do either Formula 1 racing or WRC Rallying. They are not the same thing. If you like your motion games then that's cool, BUT just as WRC Rally cars will never replace Formula 1 racing cars I would not be interested in a console where it only caters for this new party game/toy/casual pass time sort of thing. If you like it that's great but there is no way in hell I would trade even a Joypad for playing FPS/Shootemups/Beatem ups/Driving games for holding a dinner plate in front of a video camera making woolly inputs to control my car onscreen. If that is YOUR thing then great. Games have existed for 40 years and Wii/Kinect is not going to make gaming better...only add an additional option.

To the guy who said steering wheel and pedals yes I agree, I have that too and that's great but kind of takes up the whole room (have the one that comes with the car shaped metal cage) but I was just drawing a line between waving your arms about making iffy control inputs and being able to use a dedicated joypad to make pixel perfect accurate game inputs.

So I stand by my comment, saying Wii/Kinect are the next thing is like saying Formula 1 racing will be replaced by Rally sport racing. Not true. The next big thing would have to be the equivalent of going from Formula 1 racing to anti-gravity racers like in Wipeout. They don't exist yet and nor does the next big thing. The next big thing is removing the physical interaction and taking direct feed of muscle/joint inputs AND giving 7.1 surround sound in your ears AND head tracking stereoscopic displays that feed directly (or as close as it makes no difference) images into your eyes.

Scientists already use visual equipment like this today to experiment on fooling the brain into virtual out of body experiences by feeding a view of yourself as seen 3 feet behind via a camera and how your brain actually quite quickly decides you're floating in space 3 feet behind your body in some bizarre thing. Now couple that with sound, direct input of movement of all limbs into a 3D model of a DirectX 12 representation of yourself. This freaky shit works with the body of a mannequin with a 480p webcam placed on it's chest or just a live feed of an SD video camera on a stand behind you. Just imagine how it would work with real time Playstation 4/Windows 8 graphics? Until then Wii/Kinect are not there enough to be anything other than just another type of gaming, a new type invented by people using Amiga 1000s in 1980s or the French company who sold the 'Le Stick' joystick for use with C64s etc.

Then and only then will a new type of gaming exist, Virtual Reality will finally be here at last and we can move into the world of gaming, marketing bullshit by Nintendo/Microsoft claim you are 'in the game' now but they are nobs if they believe that as are people who think Wii/Kinect are anything new that wasn't around a quarter of a century ago in a more rough and ready form. Marketing PR twats WANT it to be the next big thing but it isn't, if it was that great rather than just technology which opens up the market to increase the user base by introducing an alternative less geeky option (ie what Sony did with the Playstation one and sold 120million units of the first piece of gaming tech they ever sold and wiped the floor with Sega and Nintendo).

If you like it then great, enjoy, but it is neither new nor something a SKILLED games player would ever use in preference to make a serious attempt at completing a computer game that requires pure skill and accuracy in game character control. All that's happened is 60 million people who would NEVER purchase a PS3/360 now own a console called Wii. And Microsoft being the greedy twats they are wanted in on this new group of console owners hence Kinect is born. Can you make Call of Duty 4 or DIRT 3 better by Kinect, nope. Here endeth the discussion for me. And I am in the group of gamers who is waiting for the last 40 years of gaming technology to have a worthy successor....ie the true VR technology I have already described and is scientifically proven to work on even the most basic non interactive visuals being fed to your eyes and no surround sound and no direct input from your own joints and muscles translated to what image is fed to your eyes.

We are on the dawn of a new age, 10 years from now you REALLY will be playing Forbidden Forest as Paul Norman imagined it in his mind. Until then even with Kinect and Wii it is not possible.

#39 SlowCoder OFFLINE  

SlowCoder

    River Patroller

  • 3,686 posts
  • Location:Florida, US

Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:35 AM

@Macgoo (I'm not going to quote that whole post)

I believe what AtariLeaf was getting at is that your statement was very un-thought out, and it appears you think that Wii owners don't want to play on anything else. I bet that if you took a poll, you'd find that most Wii owners on this board have multiple game systems, including the XBox 360 or PS3. Also, you seem to consider any controller that provides less than perfect feedback is not a "real game controller". We're also not arguing whether the technology is old or new. I'm sure the tech is a great improvement over the originals you spoke of, and you should be willing to give it its due.

If you only want to play your "real games" on "real controllers", then please do, and I'll be happy that you're able to do so. But remember that in a few years, your "real games" and "real controllers" of today will seem like "toys", even in your eyes, because the new tech of the day will blow them away in responsiveness and efficiency.

#40 onlysublime OFFLINE  

onlysublime

    Stargunner

  • 1,309 posts

Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:23 PM

games are games whether it's a guitar hero guitar or a DDR pad or a wiimote or a kinect. if you can't find fun playing these things, maybe you're not a gamer. a gamer isn't defined by a gun. a true gamer plays a lot of different things.

I'm sorry that Mr. Magoo only plays shooters. broaden your horizon a bit.

Posted Image

I'm old! Let me play my shooter! - Mr. Magoo

#41 AtariLeaf OFFLINE  

AtariLeaf

    Quadrunner

  • 8,571 posts
  • Location:Ontario Canada

Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:36 PM

Slowcoder and Onlysublime have summed up my thoughts pretty well so I'll leave it at that.

#42 Petran79 OFFLINE  

Petran79

    Chopper Commander

  • 203 posts

Posted Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:31 PM

games are games whether it's a guitar hero guitar or a DDR pad or a wiimote or a kinect. if you can't find fun playing these things, maybe you're not a gamer. a gamer isn't defined by a gun. a true gamer plays a lot of different things.

I'm sorry that Mr. Magoo only plays shooters. broaden your horizon a bit.

Posted Image

I'm old! Let me play my shooter! - Mr. Magoo



it also does matter that arcades are gone and arcade sticks, motion controls, wheels and flight sticks became cheaper and found their way to consoles. in the 90s arcade and console gap was bridged in hardware, but this decade it was bridged in controls as well.

It wasnt fun at all being expert at a console port of an arcade game with a pad or keyboard, then visiting the arcade original and realizing that you suck at this game due to the controls.
Eg I could finish Mortal Kombat games on PC without trouble, yet on the arcades I sucked due to the controls. Of course arcades had also better graphics and more frames, hence the greater difficulty

Edited by Petran79, Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:32 PM.


#43 HatefulGravey OFFLINE  

HatefulGravey

    River Patroller

  • 2,356 posts
  • A ROM image is no way to live.
  • Location:Georgia

Posted Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:09 PM

Headtracking would be a sweet addition to gaming that could be used in the very near future. I would never work for more than one player per screen, but most games are played online these days so it wouldn't matter much anyway. Another person watching you play would be lost as their view would be screwed up, but for the person playing it is amazing. I have seen this done with Wii hardware and it blew my mind. I would LOVE to play a well made game using this correctly.

#44 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

Rex Dart

    Quadrunner

  • 6,424 posts
  • NO CASH VALUE
  • Location:Austin, TX

Posted Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:09 PM

It's going to take a lot of refinement to get camera-based controls to a usable point. Like a decade or so.
Motion controls have their place, yeah, but they aren't great overall. I have a Wii, I enjoy Mad World on it, but I'm not going to defend their decision to use motion controls instead of traditional control with a Classic Controller.




0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users