124 replies to this topic

[rmaerz]

It's the heat wave...

[Cebus Capucinis]

rmaerz, on Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:50 PM, said:

It's the heat wave...

Back on track, how exactly does one define a "SUPER" system? Could there be a methodology for establishing some solid set of criteria or something for any given video game "generation"? If so, what factors would be included? How would it work? Would there even be an ability to have a quantitative analysis?

[zylon]

^The same above^ would be interesting as it would apply to Super Nintendo over NES as well. Just how far technologically above must a system be to deserve the "super" moniker?

[GreenDayRlz]

Well if the 5200 was a "super" system, all of them after the 2nd gen up seem okay to me...

[toptenmaterial]

Well, it was the 80s. "Super" meant BIG!!! Everything was big, and it was a time of decedence and consumption.

Now answer this: wtf was that hollow compartment in the back of the console for? On AVGN's review, he uses it to hold his beer!

[jaybird3rd]

Well, strictly speaking, the prefix "super-" means "above" or "beyond".  Both the SNES and the 5200 were follow-ups to popular consoles, so the idea was to convey that these new consoles were everything the previous ones were, and more.

The SNES fits that description nicely since it was designed to be backward-compatible with the NES, even though you needed an adapter to play NES games on it.  (Nintendo announced at the 1991 Summer CES that the SNES would be backward compatible with the NES via an adapter, but despite rumors to the contrary, no such adapter was released.  Since the SNES is based on a 16-bit version of the NES's 6502 CPU, it is able to run 6502 code, but the changes to the other hardware that would have been needed to implement full backward compatibility were apparently too expensive, although technically feasible.)  On the other hand, the 5200 is more of a departure from the 2600: they share the same CPU and some of the same architectural characteristics, but they're really different systems, and the 5200 was not backward-compatible (as I understand it, the "2600 adapter" was in effect a self-contained 2600 that only used the 5200 for A/V output).  The "super-" designation would have been better applied to the 7800, since it was truly a superset of the 2600 design.

Oh, and the hollow compartment in the back of the 5200 was meant for the joysticks.  I suppose Atari took a cue from the compartmentalized organizer boxes that had been designed for the 2600, or from the Intellivision's and ColecoVision's integrated compartments, and decided to integrate the joystick compartment into the console itself.  It was a clever idea, although it did bulk up the (already large) console considerably.

[darryl1970]

OldSchoolRetroGamer, on Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:10 PM, said:

Mr. Do! IS NOT A DIG DUG KNOCK OF! It is a much better / cooler game.  

I agree with this statement, but the Colecovision version of Mr. Do is shameful.

I know the system could have done better.  The game play is more like an early prototype of Mr. DO (from what I have seen in MAME -- check it out... Mr. Do (Prototype).   The music is off from final production, the letter guys do not turn into apples when hit, and the monster guys don't act the same.

The 8-bit Atari systems had one of the BEST Mr.Do translations.  
It was very smooth in gameplay too! I think it may have been 48k though.

[GreenDayRlz]

jaybird3rd, on Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:57 PM, said:

The SNES fits that description nicely since it was designed to be backward-compatible with the NES, even though you needed an adapter to play NES games on it.

Wrong. Where in the hell did you read that from?

But anyway, super doesn't have to mean it had a precursor. 1st time systems could even have that stuck to them. Although "super" doesn't mean anything in advertising, it's only to persuade opinions about the product/item.

[jaybird3rd]

GreenDayRlz, on Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:23 AM, said:

Wrong. Where in the hell did you read that from?

Well, you certainly could have said that more politely, but it seems that I relied on some bad information, so I'll have to go back and revise my post.  I remembered hearing that Nintendo announced (at the 1991 Summer CES) that the SNES would be backward compatible via an adapter, and I've seen backward compatibility mentioned as a real feature in several places, such as this:

Quote

One great thing that Nintendo did when building SNES was making it backward compatible which means all the games that were made for Nintendo Entertainment System can be played in SNES without any problem.

I don't own an SNES, but since it's based on the 65816 (a 16-bit 6502), the claim seemed plausible to me.  I've even seen several SNES owners claiming (on other discussion boards) to have had "an NES adapter", but they might have been referring to the Super Game Boy adapter instead.

[GreenDayRlz]

Haha, yeah, it's compatible with the 6502 in the NES's 2A03 on startup, and then the enchanced one is turned on for the 16-bit instructions and banking the SNES has, but nothing else in the SNES is close to compatible. They were trying to make it compatible, but it didn't happen. I typed my mind that time, sorry, haha! If the SNES was compatible with the NES though, that'd be wicked.

Edited by GreenDayRlz, Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:04 AM.

[Official Ninja]

darryl1970, on Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:28 PM, said:

The 8-bit Atari systems had one of the BEST Mr.Do translations.   MrDo8Bit.png
It was very smooth in gameplay too! I think it may have been 48k though.

Now THAT would be a FANTASTIC addition to the 5200 library. Mr.Do is one of the better 8-bit titles.

[rmaerz]

toptenmaterial, on Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:39 PM, said:

Well, it was the 80s. "Super" meant BIG!!! Everything was big, and it was a time of decedence and consumption.

Now answer this: wtf was that hollow compartment in the back of the console for? On AVGN's review, he uses it to hold his beer!

LOL

It's for your controllers

[SpaceDice2010]

With all the FREE A8 conversions the 5200 is getting more fun all the time. At least we don't get whacked $50 a conversion like the CV guys do.

[toptenmaterial]

SpaceDice2010, on Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:10 PM, said:

With all the FREE A8 conversions the 5200 is getting more fun all the time. At least we don't get whacked $50 a conversion like the CV guys do.

but not free on cart form

[SpaceDice2010]

toptenmaterial, on Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:24 PM, said:

SpaceDice2010, on Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:10 PM, said:

With all the FREE A8 conversions the 5200 is getting more fun all the time. At least we don't get whacked $50 a conversion like the CV guys do.

but not free on cart form

Very true and I don't mind paying the cart price to the person that converted it. What I don't like paying is upwards of $80 for a CIB when I only collect CIB for one system.

[jetset]

Official Ninja, on Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:58 AM, said:

darryl1970, on Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:28 PM, said:

The 8-bit Atari systems had one of the BEST Mr.Do translations.   MrDo8Bit.png
It was very smooth in gameplay too! I think it may have been 48k though.

Now THAT would be a FANTASTIC addition to the 5200 library.

Agreed. It would be a great conversion considering how very well done it was. Not a big fan but it would certainly warrant buying a cart. Too bad someone can't hack the Crystal Castles conversion to use with the trackball. THAT would be the shit.

[tyranthraxus]

I don't see one as really being superior over the other. I think a combination of nostalgia and brand loyalty tips one system in favour of another. The truth is the CV and 5200 are really great complimentary systems. Between the two you have the best assortment of the 80s arcade scene up to 1984.

Each system requires a bit of effort to really get into. The Coleco controllers are bad but for most games I use a Coleco controller in port 2 and use a 7800 gamepad. The 5200 is kinda like a European sports car, looks flashy, has more of a sense of quality to it but you need a lot of money to get it up and running at its full potential.

Its a shame each company abandoned these systems so early. I can only imagine what games 1985 would have brought.

[wood_jl]

SpaceDice2010, on Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:10 PM, said:

With all the FREE A8 conversions the 5200 is getting more fun all the time.

As well, the reverse is true, thanks to Fandal!

Fandal 5200 conversions


No Adventure II yet, though.  

[mbd30]

GreenDayRlz, on Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:03 AM, said:

Haha, yeah, it's compatible with the 6502 in the NES's 2A03 on startup, and then the enchanced one is turned on for the 16-bit instructions and banking the SNES has, but nothing else in the SNES is close to compatible. They were trying to make it compatible, but it didn't happen. I typed my mind that time, sorry, haha! If the SNES was compatible with the NES though, that'd be wicked.

I guess this is the next best thing to a NES-compatible SNES. http://uncrate.com/s...eo-game-system/

[GreenDayRlz]

mbd30, on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:23 PM, said:

GreenDayRlz, on Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:03 AM, said:

Haha, yeah, it's compatible with the 6502 in the NES's 2A03 on startup, and then the enchanced one is turned on for the 16-bit instructions and banking the SNES has, but nothing else in the SNES is close to compatible. They were trying to make it compatible, but it didn't happen. I typed my mind that time, sorry, haha! If the SNES was compatible with the NES though, that'd be wicked.

I guess this is the next best thing to a NES-compatible SNES. http://uncrate.com/s...eo-game-system/

Not an accurate machine emulation wise by any means, but it'll play most games. Sure.

[toptenmaterial]

GreenDayRlz, on Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:40 PM, said:

mbd30, on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:23 PM, said:

GreenDayRlz, on Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:03 AM, said:

Haha, yeah, it's compatible with the 6502 in the NES's 2A03 on startup, and then the enchanced one is turned on for the 16-bit instructions and banking the SNES has, but nothing else in the SNES is close to compatible. They were trying to make it compatible, but it didn't happen. I typed my mind that time, sorry, haha! If the SNES was compatible with the NES though, that'd be wicked.

I guess this is the next best thing to a NES-compatible SNES. http://uncrate.com/s...eo-game-system/

Not an accurate machine emulation wise by any means, but it'll play most games. Sure.

Please explain. Is the sound garbled? Esthetically it looks pretty cool.

[GreenDayRlz]

NES sound will be garbled probably, and other misc. anomalies with the NES side that just suck on clones like not supporting the processors illegal opcodes and other NES specific glitches and extras. But SNES side hopefully would be better. I'm not sure on SNES clones, but they're more complex for sure. Might not support stuff like SuperFX(2) or DSP's.

Edited by GreenDayRlz, Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:43 AM.

[jetset]

wood_jl, on Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:30 AM, said:

SpaceDice2010, on Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:10 PM, said:

With all the FREE A8 conversions the 5200 is getting more fun all the time.

As well, the reverse is true, thanks to Fandal!

Fandal 5200 conversions


No Adventure II yet, though.  

Wait, what?
Wasn't Adventure II released for the 8-bit system at the same time as the 5200 version?

[GroovyBee]

jetset, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:13 PM, said:

Wasn't Adventure II released for the 8-bit system at the same time as the 5200 version?

Its being worked on at the moment. It was never released with the 5200 version.

[AlvinKarpis]

jaybird3rd, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:16 PM, said:

It's especially silly all these years later, when one can easily afford to buy and enjoy both the 5200 and the ColecoVision, instead of drawing lines in the sand and making the choice between them into a dramatic "either-or" proposition.

You said it perfectly

I own both systems and I love them both

I play my 5200 more just because I love the ports of my favorite arcade games growing up like...

Robotron
Joust
Pacman
Berzerk
Defender
Missile Command
Centipede

I have a Trackball controller that works great and makes playing Missile Command and Centipede feel so much closer to the arcade

My two favorite 5200 games by far is Robotron and Berzerk

Berzerk is so hard on the 5200 yet so mch fun, and I love the difficulty select on Robotron

I dont play my ColecoVision that much but thats because my arcade didnt have the less common arcade ports that the CV put out

I love Pepper II and Ladybug, I even like Venture

I just didnt grow up with those games so there is no nostalgic value in them for me

Thats why the 5200 gets more use, but I would not want to be with out either system in my collection