124 replies to this topic

[sermajic]

Atari 5200 my dream system!
Colecovision , close but no cigar

[atari5200dude82]

I like both systems. They both have there own uniqueness. But i grew up with the 5200. I got in 84. After i  already had  the 2600 and the intellivision 2. i got a colecovision in the early 90's. Both systems have good games. i Like colecovision accessories. But i like the 5200 trackball better. I also like the 5200 system slick look and joysticks. If i had the choice of the 2 . I would go with the 5200 all the way.

Edited by atari5200dude82, Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:16 PM.

[peedenmark7]

I love it... nothing better then or since

[rmaerz]

Let's see if we can make this the oldest thread to ever get locked  

So, if you look at my collection on this page (which is outdated since I added a bunch more ColecoVision titles to the collection - enough to fill another storage tub) I see the following ColecoVision arcade translations (excluding home brews):

Buck Rogers
Bump N Jump
BurgerTime
Carnival
Centipede
Congo Bongo
Cosmic Avenger
Defender
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Frenzy
Frogger
Front Line
Galaxian
Gorf
Gyruss
Jungle Hunt (the one where the camera flash whited out the label)
Lady Bug
Mouse Trap
Mr. Do!
Mr. Do!'s Castle
Omega Race
Pepper II
Popeye
Q*bert
Roc N Rope
Slither
Space Fury
Space Panic
Spy Hunter
Star Trek
Star Wars
Subroc
Super Cobra
Tapper
Time Pilot
Turbo
Tutankham
Victory
Venture
Zaxxon

Now, looking at my 5200 collection (where I started collecting arcade ports first) I am missing the following arcade ports (again, excluding home brews, prototype releases et al):

Gyruss
Mr. Do!'s Castle
Star Trek
Star Wars
Super Cobra
Zaxxon

(I'm using the AtariAge cartridge scans as a guide, so I don't know if there are others that have not been scanned yet).

I see that the ColecoVision offers diversity in the types of games (shooters, platform games etc) and levels of popularity.  Games like Donkey Kong, DK Jr., Centipede, Frogger & Defender are there along with not so popular (although good) titles like Pepper II, Mouse Trap, Lady Bug and Venture.

If this is a complete list of 5200 cartridge scans, then (unless I missed one) there is only one driving game available on the 5200.  At least on the ColecoVision, you can play Bump N Jump, Pitstop, Dukes of Hazzard and Turbo using a driving controller (it's beyond me why Spy Hunter wasn't made to use the driving controller).

Out of the 5200 arcade ports in my collection, I truly enjoy the following:
Berzerk
Centipede
Galaxian
Joust
Mario Bros.
Missile Command
Moon Patrol
Pole Position
Qix
Wizard of Wor

Out of the ColecoVision arcade ports in my collection, I truly do not enjoy the following:
Congo Bongo
Zaxxon

Incidentally, two Sega games that I don't enjoy on any platform.

So, for me as a gamer that was able to play most of these games in the arcade back in the day and having an appreciation for the game itself (and not discriminating a game based on popularity), the ColecoVision is the system for me if I could only own one of the two.

[jetset]

rmaerz, on Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:17 PM, said:

Let's see if we can make this the oldest thread to ever get locked  

So, if you look at my collection on this page (which is outdated since I added a bunch more ColecoVision titles to the collection - enough to fill another storage tub) I see the following ColecoVision arcade translations (excluding home brews):

Buck Rogers
Bump N Jump
BurgerTime
Carnival
Centipede
Congo Bongo
Cosmic Avenger
Defender
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Frenzy
Frogger
Front Line
Galaxian
Gorf
Gyruss
Jungle Hunt (the one where the camera flash whited out the label)
Lady Bug
Mouse Trap
Mr. Do!
Mr. Do!'s Castle
Omega Race
Pepper II
Popeye
Q*bert
Roc N Rope
Slither
Space Fury
Space Panic
Spy Hunter
Star Trek
Star Wars
Subroc
Super Cobra
Tapper
Time Pilot
Turbo
Tutankham
Victory
Venture
Zaxxon

Now, looking at my 5200 collection (where I started collecting arcade ports first) I am missing the following arcade ports (again, excluding home brews, prototype releases et al):

Gyruss
Mr. Do!'s Castle
Star Trek
Star Wars
Super Cobra
Zaxxon

(I'm using the AtariAge cartridge scans as a guide, so I don't know if there are others that have not been scanned yet).

I see that the ColecoVision offers diversity in the types of games (shooters, platform games etc) and levels of popularity.  Games like Donkey Kong, DK Jr., Centipede, Frogger & Defender are there along with not so popular (although good) titles like Pepper II, Mouse Trap, Lady Bug and Venture.

If this is a complete list of 5200 cartridge scans, then (unless I missed one) there is only one driving game available on the 5200.  At least on the ColecoVision, you can play Bump N Jump, Pitstop, Dukes of Hazzard and Turbo using a driving controller (it's beyond me why Spy Hunter wasn't made to use the driving controller).

Out of the 5200 arcade ports in my collection, I truly enjoy the following:
Berzerk
Centipede
Galaxian
Joust
Mario Bros.
Missile Command
Moon Patrol
Pole Position
Qix
Wizard of Wor

Out of the ColecoVision arcade ports in my collection, I truly do not enjoy the following:
Congo Bongo
Zaxxon

Incidentally, two Sega games that I don't enjoy on any platform.

So, for me as a gamer that was able to play most of these games in the arcade back in the day and having an appreciation for the game itself (and not discriminating a game based on popularity), the ColecoVision is the system for me if I could only own one of the two.

To each his own but bear in mind most of the arcade games you listed for the CV are available for the 5200 and in better form. Many that aren't are just 2nd rate knockoffs.

Buck Rogers (available on the 5200)
Bump N Jump (ok, CV wins there)
BurgerTime  (ok taking away the much better homebrew beef drop CV gets the nod there)
Carnival    (crappy knockoff of space invaders)
Centipede   (available on the 5200)
Congo Bongo (sucks on both systems. who cares?)
Cosmic Avenger (crappy knock off of defender)
Defender    (available on the 5200)
Donkey Kong  (ok, CV wins there)
Donkey Kong Jr. (ok, CV wins there)
Frenzy           (ok, CV wins there)
Frogger       (available on the 5200)
Front Line    (ok, CV wins there)
Galaxian      (available on the 5200)
Gorf          (available on the 5200)
Gyruss        (available on the 5200)
Jungle Hunt   (available on the 5200)
Lady Bug      (crappy pacman knockoff)
Mouse Trap    (crappy pacman knockoff)
Mr. Do!       (Dig Dig knockoff)
Mr. Do!'s Castle (available on the 5200)
Omega Race   (ok, CV wins there)
Pepper II    (Qix knockoff)
Popeye       (available on the 5200)
Q*bert       (available on the 5200)
Roc N Rope   (ok, CV wins there)
Slither      (REALLY crappy centipede knockoff)
Space Fury   (Asteroids knockoff)
Space Panic  (possibly the only original exclusive arcade port for the CV?)
Spy Hunter   (ok, CV wins there)
Star Trek    (available on the 5200)
Star Wars    (available on the 5200)
Subroc       (Cant remember which game this ripped off...sea wolf maybe?)
Super Cobra  (available on the 5200)
Tapper       (ok, CV wins there)
Time Pilot   (ok, CV wins there)
Turbo        (ok, CV wins there)
Tutankham    (ok, CV wins there)
Victory     (crappy Defender knockoff)
Venture     (Knockoff of Berzerk)
Zaxxon      (available on the 5200)

Of like titles I would definitely give the CV the edge on Galaxian and Gorf, but beyond that the CV titles with the lack of colors and choppy scrolling pale in comparison to the 5200 counterparts. Turbo, Time Pilot, Frenzy, are definitely good enough reason to own a CV. The driving controller is a neat add-on but only one game truly takes advantage.
I guess if you're going purely on the number of arcade ports it's CV by a mile. But from a quality standpoint nothing REALLY stands out like Robotron and Space Dungeon with the coupler. Or Missile Command or Centipede with the TrackBall. Defender? Looks ok on the CV but the sound is horrible. Donkey Kong and Zaxxon are supposed to be the stand outs that made the CV back in the day, but 5200 Zaxxon looks way better and scrolls perfectly whereas the CV version is like watching a series of still pictures jumping from one to the other. Donkey Kong is fun on the CV I'll admit, but it's really a bad conversion with the flickering and lack of the cement factory among other flaws.

The CV definitely has the quantity. The 5200 has the quality.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Mr. Do! IS NOT A DIG DUG KNOCK OF! It is a much better / cooler game.  

[rmaerz]

jetset, on Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:32 PM, said:

To each his own but bear in mind most of the arcade games you listed for the CV are available for the 5200 and in better form. Many that aren't are just 2nd rate knockoffs.

Carnival    (crappy knockoff of space invaders)
Cosmic Avenger (crappy knock off of defender)
Lady Bug      (crappy pacman knockoff)
Mouse Trap    (crappy pacman knockoff)
Mr. Do!       (Dig Dig knockoff)
Pepper II    (Qix knockoff)
Subroc       (Cant remember which game this ripped off...sea wolf maybe?)

If you call Carnival a knockoff of Space Invaders then you may as well throw Galaxian in there.  Yes, Carnival is a shooter like Space Invaders but is dynamic enough to not be considered a Space Invaders clone.  There is so much going on in Carnival that I would say that the comparison to Space Invaders stops at "shooting things."

Cosmic Avenger, Super Cobra and Scramble were all released in 1981 - one year after Defender introduced us to a horizontal scrolling game (incidentally, KLOV documents that Defender was released in 1981 which may be half-true since the game was introduced at a trade show in 1980 and bombed because of the complex controls).  

With that, it would only be natural that other companies develop their own horizontal scrolling shooters.  Of the three, it's a toss up between Scramble and Cosmic Avenger being my favorite.  And while these three games are copycats amongst themselves and owe it to Defender for creating this genre, they are different enough from Defender to be called knockoffs.  On the ColecoVision, I'll take Cosmic Avenger over Super Cobra.

A game that I believe is a Defender knockoff is Juno First.  It's a great game, however.

Mouse Trap and Lady Bug were influenced by Pac-Man and the new maze game genre.  Of the two, Mouse Trap would be closer to a Pac-Man rip off.  But, again these games are different in their own right - more so than Ms. Pac-Man.  I like both of these games on the ColecoVision and Mouse Trap (along with Space Panic) are the rare translations that I like better than the arcade.

Mr. Do! vs. Dig Dug: they were both released in 1982 but I can't tell you which one hit the arcades first.  I find that players love either game so a debate on which one is better would most likely be fruitless.  I can't play Dig Dug on the 5200 with the stock controllers.

Pepper II (one of my favorite games) is really influenced by Amidar.  Combine that with the "turn-the-tables" aspect of Pac-Man and four simultaneous mazes and you have Pepper II.  Another great translation on the ColecoVision.

Subroc is Sea Wolf from a different perspective and adds enemies in the air.  This has been one of my favorite games on the ColecoVision since I started playing it with the roller controller.  You have to be realistic and not expect the arcade graphics for this translation on either the ColecoVision or 5200.  But, the game play is there and since I've been playing it with a roller controller it has become a fast paced shooter.

[sermajic]

I also see the 5200 as the commodore 64 of the time, great ,but big pixels in graphics, legendary games
And the coleco as the spectrum, more defined/less colorfull graphics and less big name games

[zylon]

I like Carnival on all systems, but did prefer Cosmic Avenger over Super Cobra. Star Ranger for C64 is better than both of them IMO. My 5200 is the most played of my Atari systems. I've had CV's but they didn't "grab me". Nothing really stood out worth keeping. I hate Donkey Kong(on all systems equally) so even that one is a moot point.

[SpaceDice2010]

I love some of the obscure games that were released for the Colecovision. And if I had to judge based on "official" releases it would be a REAL tough call as Space Dungeon, which ONLY appeared on one console - Atari 5200, is absolutely one of the best games ever made and the Atari controls are a joy to use on that game. That game alone would most likely put the Atari over the top for me.

But...

With all the A8 conversions, the 5200 wins hands down. There are just so many great conversions.

[high voltage]

The joystick on 5200 are actually very good to use, you just gotta do it right. The Coleco pad on the other hand, well it makes a good numeric pad with the Adam!

[Vic George 2K3]

If the control sticks didn't work like crap, I would have gotten it instead of the ColecoVision...or even possibly with the ColecoVision once I started having a job.

[jetset]

Vic George 2K3, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:05 PM, said:

If the control sticks didn't work like crap, I would have gotten it instead of the ColecoVision...or even possibly with the ColecoVision once I started having a job.

Wait...because the controls on the 5200 worked like crap you got a Coleco?    What happened when you realized the CV controllers were worse trade it in for an Intellivision?  

[Vic George 2K3]

Vic George 2K3, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:05 PM, said:

If the control sticks didn't work like crap, I would have gotten it instead of the ColecoVision...or even possibly with the ColecoVision once I started having a job.

jetset, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:53 PM, said:

Wait...because the controls on the 5200 worked like crap you got a Coleco?    What happened when you realized the CV controllers were worse trade it in for an Intellivision?  

I eventually bought Y-adapters so I could use Atari 2600 joysticks for playing ColecoVision games. A far better cry than what could have been done with the Atari 5200.

[jetset]

Vic George 2K3, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:10 PM, said:

Vic George 2K3, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:05 PM, said:

If the control sticks didn't work like crap, I would have gotten it instead of the ColecoVision...or even possibly with the ColecoVision once I started having a job.

jetset, on Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:53 PM, said:

Wait...because the controls on the 5200 worked like crap you got a Coleco?    What happened when you realized the CV controllers were worse trade it in for an Intellivision?  

I eventually bought Y-adapters so I could use Atari 2600 joysticks for playing ColecoVision games. A far better cry than what could have been done with the Atari 5200.

Yes, playing with a controller from the previous generations' system is always the best solution of you're not good enough to play the games with the controllers designed for the system. Too bad, you missed out on some great games limiting yourself to one fire button but then again if you can't play very well to begin with, complex games probably aren't your thing anyway.

[Vic George 2K3]

Well, excuse me for actually having an opinion about the 5200, jetset, even if it's one you have to be a douchebag when it comes to responding to. While I do regret missing out on the games that are for it, I have no regrets not getting the system at all because of Atari's failure to actually have a useable and durable controller made for the system, let alone having it be backwards-compatible with the Atari 2600 which they only later did with the 7800. Even to this day I still wouldn't want to get a 5200 for that reason. You happy now?

Edited by Vic George 2K3, Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:01 AM.

[jetset]

Vic George 2K3, on Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:00 AM, said:

Well, excuse me for actually having an opinion about the 5200, jetset, even if it's one you have to be a douchebag when it comes to responding to. While I do regret missing out on the games that are for it, I have no regrets not getting the system at all because of Atari's failure to actually have a useable and durable controller made for the system, let alone having it be backwards-compatible with the Atari 2600 which they only later did with the 7800. Even to this day I still wouldn't want to get a 5200 for that reason. You happy now?

Your contribution to the thread is to come and whine about the controllers and **I'm** the douchebag?
Excuse me for having an opinion as well. Typical fanboy bullshit on your part. Complaining about the 5200 stock controllers? Gee how original. Especially under the guise of "I got a Colecovision because the 5200 controllers work like crap" What utter bullshit. I also like your backwards-compatibility argument. I suppose you got the Coleco for the 2600 compatibility over the 5200 as well? Let me ask you, was the CV b/c out of the box or did you have to buy an adapter? Guess what? the CV was just as INcompatible without an adapter as the 5200 was. That argument is pure fanboy shit as well.

I'm sorry my calling out your lack of gaming skill has you see me as a douchebag. Your loss. I'm no fan of the CV controllers but I'm not going to let my stupidity and ignorance keep my from owning a great system. I had a tough time with them as well at first. Eventually I got better and realized what a great system the CV was. Beats the hell out of going to a Coleco forum and posting a hit and run "I'd play the Coleco if the controllers didn't work like crap"  

[Jerseydevil1953]

[rmaerz]

I want to give you an example of why the controllers are an issue...

I had a Retrocade party at my place a few years ago where I set out, among other systems, a 5200 with Pac-Man loaded up and ready to play (I had other carts sitting in a tub right next to it for guests to swap out).

A friend of mine goes to play Pac-Man and she's probably never played the 5200 in her life.  She couldn't get past the first board without cussing out the controllers and asking what was wrong with the controllers.  I shrugged and said "those were the controllers they released with the system."

Now, go back to 1980...

If Namco released Pac-Man with a non-centering joystick can you honestly tell me that the game would have been as popular as it was?  In an industry where games are designed to get the player addicted and suck down as many quarters as possible this would have been a disaster.  And because of that, Pac-Man would have never left the production facility with a non-centering joystick.

A maze game requires a joystick that returns to center for precise high speed maneuvering.  If you're going to tell a player, whether that game is in the arcade or on a home console, that "once you get used to the controls it'll be better" that player is going to laugh in your face and say "no thanks, I'll put my quarter in Berzerk instead because the joystick works the way it's supposed to."

You could have grandma go in the arcade back in the day and she could tell you that the joystick wasn't behaving the way it was supposed to.  

So, to ask a gamer to give them a quarter and ask forgiveness for lousy controls is...how do say in English? - bullshit...

[jetset]

rmaerz, on Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:05 AM, said:

I want to give you an example of why the controllers are an issue...

I had a Retrocade party at my place a few years ago where I set out, among other systems, a 5200 with Pac-Man loaded up and ready to play (I had other carts sitting in a tub right next to it for guests to swap out).

A friend of mine goes to play Pac-Man and she's probably never played the 5200 in her life.  She couldn't get past the first board without cussing out the controllers and asking what was wrong with the controllers.  I shrugged and said "those were the controllers they released with the system."

Now, go back to 1980...

If Namco released Pac-Man with a non-centering joystick can you honestly tell me that the game would have been as popular as it was?  In an industry where games are designed to get the player addicted and suck down as many quarters as possible this would have been a disaster.  And because of that, Pac-Man would have never left the production facility with a non-centering joystick.

A maze game requires a joystick that returns to center for precise high speed maneuvering.  If you're going to tell a player, whether that game is in the arcade or on a home console, that "once you get used to the controls it'll be better" that player is going to laugh in your face and say "no thanks, I'll put my quarter in Berzerk instead because the joystick works the way it's supposed to."

You could have grandma go in the arcade back in the day and she could tell you that the joystick wasn't behaving the way it was supposed to.  

So, to ask a gamer to give them a quarter and ask forgiveness for lousy controls is...how do say in English? - bullshit...

ABSOLUTELY PacMan would have fared just as well with a non-centering joystick. Just as Donkey Kong would have been a hit with a CV style 1/4th height, stiff controller with a painfully hard fire button on the side of the cabinet. You yourself said Defender initially was not big because of the complex controls. What happened? Gamers realized what a great game it was, and those who weren't good enough to handle the controls adapted, and Defender became one of THE top arcade games. EVER. What if PacMan, had an extremely stiff controller like the 2600/7800/Coleco rather than the type it DID have which, though it did self center had plenty of play and did not require a lot of force to move? Would it still have been a hit? Of course it would.
Look I'm not saying the 5200 sticks are perfect for every game. You cannot possibly have a controller that works just as perfectly for a game with free range like Centipede as it does for a maze game like PacMan. To bash a system BECAUSE the controller isn't perfect for EVERY game? C'mon...I'm sure at your retro party your friend who couldn't play PacMan with the 5200 sticks would have griped just as much trying to play Centipede for more than 3 minutes with the coleco stick. But both games are worth a little practice I think, and to arbitrarily dismiss a system because of a few games you can't play well...that's just dumb.

Edited by jetset, Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:44 PM.

[SpaceDice2010]

Two words: Space dungeon. Nothing on the Colecovision even comes close...

[doctorclu]

For me the system with the most initial wow and was inspiring between the two was the ColecoVision.

I went from a 2600 and saw the ColecoVision and at which point sold my 2600 and was going to buy the ColecoVision.

JUST SHORT OF THAT I was informed by a friend that if I spent the same money (and upgrading on the behalf of my dad) that I could have a Atari computer where my friend could share diskette games with me.  And I could call with a modem and find more games.

So I bought a Atari 400 instead.

But I visited my friends with ColecoVision all the time, and I loved to play Venture and Smurfs.   In recent times I think Mr. Do is addictive.  

[zylon]

I find the 5200 controller to be beneficial to a few games: Pole Position, Missile Command, Galaxian, River Raid.
I've never even had to rebuild my controller and it works fine. Still using Rev 7 flexi and stock carbon dot buttons with no foil or any upgrades.

[rmaerz]

jetset, on Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:41 PM, said:

ABSOLUTELY PacMan would have fared just as well with a non-centering joystick.

Not a chance

[Vic George 2K3]

I already have a "super system" for playing Pac-Man on...it's the Atari 7800!