Tempest Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Are there any good monitors I can use my new S-Video cable with? I haven't seen any that have a S-Video jack in the back that are compatible with the 400/800/XE. The Commodore monitor that everyone seems to use uses a strange composite s-video that won't work with my cable (it has the mini DIN plug) Am I better off using a small TV instead? Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 The monitors of the 8-bit/16-bit era were manufactured before "S-Video" even existed. Back then they called it split video (or chroma/luma or Y/C), and used two RCA jacks-- one for color, and one for luminance. So your S-Video cable is useless for this purpose. A small S-Video equipped TV would probably look quite sharp though. Just make sure it doesn't have (or lets you disable) a comb filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsoper Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Hi Tempest, I had the same problem when I started getting more S-video systems after the 2600 and C64. This is what I did: 1. Bought an RCA to RCA cable plus an S-video extension cable 2. Cut both in half 3. Solder each half to half of the other cable. When I was done, I had an S-video to RCA cable good for connecting a modern system (or modern switchbox) into a Commodore monitor, and also had an RCA to S-video cable good for connecting a C64 (with standard chroma/luma cable) into an S-video switchbox (system selector box) The soldering was kind of tricky though with the four conductors. It's definitely not the type of cable you want to yank on John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsoper Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Sorry, I just noticed the other cable thread after I wrote this. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 3, 2003 Author Share Posted February 3, 2003 I had so much trouble with the other cable because the instructions I was reading were wrong (plus I had an incompatible S-Video cable the first time). The soldering was fairly easy. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsoper Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Yeah, I usually hook everything up with alligator clips and make sure it works before soldering things up. Deathskull labs has a nifty genesis to intv controller adapter that I was building one night. Turns out that the GIICM pinout for the 74266 IC was incorrect. Trust no one! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 15, 2003 Author Share Posted February 15, 2003 Just make sure it doesn't have (or lets you disable) a comb filter. Why is that? What doest he comb filter do? I saw a nice cheap TV with S-Video but it had the comb fliter. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I thought the comb filter only applied to composite inputs? I wouldn't see a need to separate the two (Y/C) signals AGAIN after separating them before the TV/monitor's input, especially since the TV's internal separation most likely wouldn't be near as clean as the input's two signals. I would imagine that you don't have to worry about that for S-Video input; it usually only applies to composite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Well what exactly does comb filtering do that is unacceptable for composite signals? Since most consumer electronics (VCR's, DVD's, video games, etc.) have composite video, and many ONLY composite&RF coaxil, I'd think this would be a big problem (well known with lots of complaints). I was planning on getting myself a good, large TV with comb filtering because I thought it would make a 320x240 composite screen look good (res on most 32/64-bit systems), thinking it would help to hide the black lines in between scan lines (non interlaced) and make the resolution look better/sharper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Comb filtering (at least as I know it) attempts to separate the Chroma and Luminance signals from a composite signal. I was stating before that it's not useless for composite, but for S-Video, as S-Video already separates the signals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Ahh...ok, that's good to know, although I guess i will try and find a TV that disables it for S-video. Half my equipment is S-video and half composite (the cables I have, I'll be getting more s-video and component cables later) But I guess that if I have my Jaguar plugged in to S-video, then I won't get the results I was hoping for with comb filtering then? Because I'll have to disable it? Well, I'll just get a TV that has it and is able to disable it and hope for the best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I think you misunderstood what I said. Comb filtering only works for a COMPOSITE connection, not for an S-Video connection. I don't see why comb filtering would be enabled for S-Video when it doesn't need it. Comb filtering will most likely only occur with a composite or RF connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsoper Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 An S-video (chroma/luma) connection goes straight into the inner TV circuitry A composite connection goes through a comb filter to get separated into its chroma and luma halves, then goes to the same place as above. An RF connection goes through a demodulator to become a composite signal (plus an audio signal), then through the comb filter. I never heard of a disable option on a comb filter and am pretty sure it doesn't exist. However I'll admit I'm wrong if someone can post a web link John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I think you misunderstood what I said. Comb filtering only works for a COMPOSITE connection, not for an S-Video connection. I don't see why comb filtering would be enabled for S-Video when it doesn't need it. Comb filtering will most likely only occur with a composite or RF connection. No, I understood you, you misunderstood me. From what I've seen of comb filtering, it seems to hide the "gaps" between scan-lines on video screens that are lower than the interlaced standard (640x480), usually non-interlaced 320x240(most games,screens&fmv on Jaguar,playstation, Saturn, SNES,Genesis&32x and older systems). These "gaps" generally only become noticable on TV about 26" or larger, so it wouldn't make a difference on anything smaller anyway. I have a 26" and 36" TV's, and the "gaps" are VERY noticable on my tv's, especially on the 36" screen. I wanted to get a 36" TV with comb filtering to hide this. I was hoping that S-video would work through comb filtering to accomplish this too, but since it won't I was just stating that I'll only be able to use it on the half of my equipment that I still use composite signals with, and not the ones I use s-video, unless I switch back to composite inputs on those devices. I only wanted to do this because of the advantage of comb filtering I stated just above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I never heard of a disable option on a comb filter and am pretty sure it doesn't exist. My JVC TV has just such an option. And toggling it makes a visible difference in both composite and s-video modes (although for s-video the difference is negligible). In composite, you want to turn it off for non-interlaced video sources (ie, classic gaming consoles), because otherwise you get the "dot crawl" effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Is this "dot crawl" effect that your speaking of similiar to that of INTERLACED composite signals, i.e. the "crawling effect around the edges? If so, since I put up with that on interlaced screens, it seems like it would be exceptable, to me, if it hid the scanline "gaps" I refered too...what size screen is your TV? Do you notice the black lines or "gaps" between non-interlaced scanlines on your TV? I'm curious, because on my 36" screen, these scanline "gaps" are very annoying to me, especially after playing a newer console that has an interlaced screen, and then going to a non-interlaced screen on an older console. My experience with comb filtering is limited, so maybe I'm not remembering it well. Like I said though, if the screen is smaller than 25-26", it isn't noticable anyway, so maybe if your screen IS smaller, you haven't noticed this comb filtering "advantage." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 This is slightly off topic in a way, but the SONY WEGA I use has pretty sophisticated filtering modes, it allows you to toggle them on and off for different inputs - its a 36" HDTV - and it will accept RF/Composite/Svideo and Component... BUT the best thing about it is you can eliminate all interlace effects, by selecting the progressive scan modes - so no thin black lines - and that works with any video input type... In effect it looks like a VGA display with all sources I've tried (no RF recently, but my 2600 does work on it). It make composite sources look awesomely clear and steady, and Svideo sources look almost as good as component ones... Using a Radeon All In Wonder Pro 9000 with a component convertor block the TV is the BEST for emulation too - I usually play 2600/5200/8bit and Mame stuff right on the TV... sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Thats sounds like exactly what I'm thinking of...whether it's comb filtering or progressive scan, or both, that's what I have seen and want to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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