Midway Arcade Origins

[blacklionforce]

Hi all, first post here.

 

 

 

Missing from Midway Arcade Treasures 3 is everything except for Super Off-Road (And no mention of the Track-Pack being included). Several games there that would've benefited from wheel support like Race Drivin', it would've been a chance to do better justice to S.T.U.N Runner (Slowdown and very inconsistent frame rate) and San Francisco Rush (Control issues due to not translating well to a gamepad and the entire soundtrack was replaced), and Rush 2049 would've looked great on a HD console (No Hydro Thunder of course). And heck, the Xbox and PS2 builds routinely corrupt their own saves so that's another reason it's sad to see most everything from it missing here since the GCN version that does properly save had some performance issues not there on the other two (Like Super Off-Road slowing to the single digits on a particular track).

 

I own MAT3 for PS2, Xbox and Gamecube. For the life of me I cannot understand what happened to Rush the Rock. While it runs at 60fps most of the time, compared to 30fps on the 3DFX based Flagstaff arcade hardware, there are so many problems with the MAT3 port, or emulation, that I don't know where to begin. Lets just start with, it looks horrible. For those that don't know what the arcade looks like, here's a decent video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndjtAdFI1FI

 

And the Gamecube version:

 

Can everyone see how bad the MAT3 version truly looks?

 

So anyway, is there any hope of playing a *good* version Rush the Rock, and the arcade version of 2049, at home? MAT3 had the Dreamcast version and while the DC version is superior in many ways, there's less geometry/polygons than the arcade (not that it really matters but it would be nice to have the proper arcade version to play at home).

 

Thanks in advance for any answers!

Edited October 3, 2012 by blacklionforce

[onlysublime]

I had San Francisco Rush that came with my 3dfx Banshee card. It was a lot of fun. But it sucked that it only worked on the Banshee and no other card. Also had a great NFL Blitz come with the card as well. Damn bundling...

[Atariboy]

Just thought of a game I'd of really loved to see on this compilation. Hydra by Atari Games. Was basically Roadblasters on water and was always a fun game. But it only ever appeared on the Atari Lynx.

 

Can everyone see how bad the MAT3 version truly looks?

 

I don't see huge difference, but it had been a good three or four years since I had last played the coinop when Midway Arcade Treasures 3 was released (and I probably only played it a total of a half dozen times over the years since things like Hydro Thunder always got my attention over San Francisco Rush). So I'm no expert on how it should look.

 

I still wonder why the soundtrack was changed (Although it's not when the game preview is played at the title screen). Not a loss since the original music was pretty awful, but it still puzzles me why the need for a change. It's not like it was licensed music that they were using but apparantly there must've been some issue there since they wouldn't of done it just for the heck of it.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Atariboy

[cimerians]

Just thought of a game I'd of really loved to see on this compilation. Hydra by Atari Games. Was basically Roadblasters on water and was always a fun game. But it only ever appeared on the Atari Lynx.

 

 

Oh man...I remember that. I think I played that once in the arcade in the 80's. Never have seen it since.

 

I noticed Gorf and Tron under the Midway "banner". Tron I can see being a licensing thing but what about Gorf? I never see it on any compilations although it has been released for the CV and C64 etc.

[blacklionforce]

I don't see huge difference, but it had been a good three or four years since I had last played the coinop when Midway Arcade Treasures 3 was released (and I probably only played it a total of a half dozen times over the years since things like Hydro Thunder always got my attention over San Francisco Rush). So I'm no expert on how it should look.

 

Well the textures don't look like they do on real 3Dfx hardware. I was never a fan of 3Dfx, but things just don't look as good. Check out the videos.

 

 

I still wonder why the soundtrack was changed (Although it's not when the game preview is played at the title screen). Not a loss since the original music was pretty awful, but it still puzzles me why the need for a change. It's not like it was licensed music that they were using but apparantly there must've been some issue there since they wouldn't of done it just for the heck of it.

 

I don't remember the soundtrack very well, but I know it was changed from what I read.

Edited October 3, 2012 by blacklionforce

[Austin]

Well the textures don't look like they do on real 3Dfx hardware. I was never a fan of 3Dfx, but things just don't look as good. Check out the videos.

 

I can definitely see a difference in the videos. The visuals on the Game Cube version are much more blurry. To get the best comparison though, it would be better to see the same tracks side by side.

 

One of these weeks as I get settled into my new place, I will have to bring out the XBOX version of MAT3 and see if it's any sharper than the GC one.

[Crazy Climber]

I'm sure I'll buy it...I always tell myself I'm not going to because it's the same damn games I have been buying for 20+ years but I'll see it at target, start reading the box, start justifying the purchase with things like "achievements" and "unlockables" that are new and next thing you know I just spent $30 to play paperboy again. It's a cycle really, I still don't think there is one classic compilation to date I haven't eventually ended up purchasing.

[blacklionforce]

I can definitely see a difference in the videos. The visuals on the Game Cube version are much more blurry. To get the best comparison though, it would be better to see the same tracks side by side.

 

One of these weeks as I get settled into my new place, I will have to bring out the XBOX version of MAT3 and see if it's any sharper than the GC one.

 

I thought someone would (see the difference), it's really noticable isn't it ?

 

I'll have to do the same with my Xbox version, once I get settled, I'm moving also.

[Atariboy]

It looks different, but that GCN video is pretty poor quality (Doesn't run smoothly at all, for starters) so it's really hard to gauge just what's responsible.

 

And the arcade video is zoomed out significantly compared to the GCN version which is going to help give the impression it's superior graphically. And the quality of the driving also contributes (The guy on the arcade video doesn't have crippled control and knows what he's doing... the guy on the GCN video has crippled control and seems all but lost). And two different driving perspectives are being used as well.

 

I'll try it out on my Xbox and GCN later and see if there's any significant graphical differences between the two.

 

I noticed Gorf and Tron under the Midway "banner". Tron I can see being a licensing thing but what about Gorf? I never see it on any compilations although it has been released for the CV and C64 etc.

 

Tron and Discs of Tron were rereleased on XBLA. Unsure if they were delisted with the other Midway content but I think they're still there. Too bad we don't have proper controls to fully enjoy them though.

 

Gorf would require a Taito license for Space Invaders and a Namco license for Galaxians. I imagine it's safe to say that's why it never appeared in a compilation since I don't think it's anything special from a hardware point of view and it's certainly a well known name.

 

Have to think it would've made it into at least a compilation or two by now if licensing wasn't a problem.

 

I don't remember the soundtrack very well, but I know it was changed from what I read.

 

It was (And probably for the better, the replacement seems less annoying).

 

But my curiousity still makes me wonder why the need to substitute something else for what just appears to be generic videogame music.

 

I'm sure I'll buy it...I always tell myself I'm not going to because it's the same damn games I have been buying for 20+ years but I'll see it at target, start reading the box, start justifying the purchase with things like "achievements" and "unlockables" that are new and next thing you know I just spent $30 to play paperboy again. It's a cycle really, I still don't think there is one classic compilation to date I haven't eventually ended up purchasing.

 

If the package itself is well done including accurate emulation, the achievements are well selected and bug free so they're fun to go after, and the online score leaderboards are well implimented, it will be worth $30 to me despite basically being a repackaging of things we've already seen before other than a minor update of Vindicators.

 

Not to mention it should look better on living room HD sets than something like Midway Arcade Treasures would hooked up via component from a last gen console (Especially considering if you're playing the PS2 or GCN versions, I think they're 480i only). And vertically oriented games like Sinistar should be better off on HD sets. The pillarboxing on SD sets to maintain aspect ratio always left them with inadequate resolution in earlier arcade compilations so you'd get minor graphical issues (Burgertime on Data East Arcade Classics for the Wii comes immediately to mind as an example).

 

But don't spend $30 just to play Paperboy again though since it's not there.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Atariboy

[Atariboy]

Not really seeing a visual difference between the GCN and Xbox versions of San Francisco Rush on Midway Arcade Treasures 3 after spending some time with both of them tonight.

 

Just in case someone comes across this and contemplates purchasing a version of it, I suggest just going with the later release on the GCN. Has the major advantage of no saving issues unlike the Xbox and PS2 versions that routinely corrupt their own saves. And other than splitscreen multiplayer being cut in half to 30fps in something like Rush 2049 (Also shared with the PS2 release I've heard), the GCN release pretty much performs as well as the Xbox version does. Particularly now that Xbox Live is down and the online leaderboards are gone which used to be a important advantage.

 

Only differences I've noticed between the two versions I own are no progressive scan support on the GCN version and Super Off-Road has horrible slowdown on a track named Boulder Hill on the GCN which I never noticed happening on the Xbox (A problem that hopefully won't be present on this new collection that includes Super Off-Road).

Edited October 7, 2012 by Atariboy

[Atariboy]

Achievements list is out.

 

http://www.xbox360ac...s/achievements/

 

Unsure about every last one of these (I think I've only killed Sinistar successfully once for instance), but it looks like they generally went the easy route to ensure that it's attractive to all the achievement/trophy hunters out there.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Atariboy

[Cybergoth]

Bad news regarding Backbone...

 

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/10/09/death-jr-dev-faces-closure

[Atariboy]

I'm also kind of wondering about Tapper. Was there ever a home version or compilation that included the BEER Tapper and not Root Beer Tapper? I don't think I've seen the bud version on home systems. I cant rememeber but I may be wrong.

 

I had forgotten about this fact, but the original Budweiser version had different musical jingles in it than Root Beer Tapper did.

 

While I think I'm 100% correct in my assessment of the chances of Budweiser Tapper ever seeing a home conversion, it would be nice if they'd provide an options setting to allow us to switch to the original musical jingles (Which I think is the most significant difference between the two versions).

 

Or are they an adaptation of some jingle from something like Budweiser commercials from 30 years ago that would prevent it?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiCfeqid3MU

Edited October 9, 2012 by Atariboy

[cimerians]

I had forgotten about this fact, but the original Budweiser version had different musical jingles in it than Root Beer Tapper did.

 

While I think I'm 100% correct in my assessment of the chances of Budweiser Tapper ever seeing a home conversion, it would be nice if they'd provide an options setting to switch to the original musical jingles (Which I think is the most significant difference between the two versions).

 

Or are they an adaptation of some jingle from something like Budweiser commercials from 30 years ago that would prevent it?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiCfeqid3MU

 

Ok I KNEW something had to be different other than the Bud logo. I just had a hunch cause I remember trying the Bud version ages ago and thinking it was somehow different. Thanks for digging that up.

 

I would think maybe it's too much trouble for them to get approval for it or maybe nobody cares or maybe, just maybe, someone out there still thinks its a bad call to have beer in a game.

I honestly read in magazines back in the 90's or 80's that the reason for the change was mainly because of that.

 

It would be nice to have a flip switch to change between the two, good idea.

[Atariboy]

This is due to release next Tuesday.

[S1500]

The PS2 version of Rush the Rock 2049 had terrible loading times.

[cimerians]

ehhhh...

 

Not worth it.

 

I think each game has ONE achievement\trophy, granted if there was more than one then the achievement list would be huge but still its pretty lame. There's no point to buying this unless someone is really into leaderboards.

[bloodreptile]

well it is not being released in the UK. which is not that bad as it is missing a lot of my fave Midway/Willaims titles.... I was going to say no Jungle hunt but that is a Taito game. I would have liked Moon Patrol to be on it with an unlockable 2600 version on it... and that is 2,600 not twenty six hundred as the Americans say it...

[cimerians]

I'm always looking for another Moon Patrol release.....

 

I played Satan's Hollow, Wizard of Wor, Arch Rivals and Joust. I'll try a few more tonight, the emulation seems ok except maybe for Wizard of Wor and I'm not so sure about Satan's Hollow either. In Wor the creatures move way too fast (after the final speed up) and in Satan's Hollow it seems you can't hit things as well. It just seems off a bit. I'll have to fire up MAME and see so maybe I'm wrong. They have some graphics on the sides of the play-field and you can switch up controller options. I can't seem to find any additional material. No history, flyers, artwork. Just the games.

[Atariboy]

Moon Patrol is a Irem game. All Bally/Midway did was license it for North American distribution. That's how it ended up in some of their early compilations back when they actually would pay money to license something they didn't own to include in a compilation.

 

I'm recieving it as a Christmas present or I'd check myself, does Super Off-Road have the Track-Pack? It clearly is the standard version of Super Off-Road in the game menus and when you load up the game in YouTube videos. But I'm wondering if in the settings screen for the game if you can enable it. It's not a big loss if it's not there (It's in MAT3 of course), but it's a slap in the face of fans to include a game but not the expansion that operator's could purchase that represent the version most people played. I don't think I ever saw a Super Off-Road cabinet where I couldn't select the dune buggy and didn't have access to the entire slate of tracks. So I'm sure it was an upgrade that most operator's purchased.

 

In Wizard of Wor on Midway Arcade Treasures 2, you're moving way too fast immediately. So it sounds as if they've at least taken a step in the right direction there even if it's perhaps still not quite perfect.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Atariboy

[cimerians]

Moon Patrol is a Irem game. All Bally/Midway did was license it for North American distribution. That's how it ended up in some of their early compilations back when they actually would pay money to license something they didn't own to include in a compilation.

 

I'm recieving it as a Christmas present or I'd check myself, does Super Off-Road have the Track-Pack? It clearly is the standard version of Super Off-Road in the game menus and when you load up the game in YouTube videos. But I'm wondering if in the settings screen for the game if you can enable it. It's not a big loss if it's not there (It's in MAT3 of course), but it's a slap in the face of fans to include a game but not the expansion that operator's could purchase that represent the version most people played. I don't think I ever saw a Super Off-Road cabinet where I couldn't select the dune buggy and didn't have access to the entire slate of tracks. So I'm sure it was an upgrade that most operator's purchased.

 

In Wizard of Wor on Midway Arcade Treasures 2, you're moving way too fast immediately. So it sounds as if they've at least taken a step in the right direction there even if it's perhaps still not quite perfect.

 

I can check Super Off-Road for you when I get the chance. Yeah Wizard is very much playable except on the last stage of speed ups the monsters get. They fly around way too fast and I cant remember if the arcade was like that.

[Austin]

Hm.. It might be worth it just for Wizard of Wor then, considering it doesn't play in overdrive mode like it does on the other collections.

[cimerians]

Moon Patrol is a Irem game. All Bally/Midway did was license it for North American distribution. That's how it ended up in some of their early compilations back when they actually would pay money to license something they didn't own to include in a compilation.

 

I'm recieving it as a Christmas present or I'd check myself, does Super Off-Road have the Track-Pack? It clearly is the standard version of Super Off-Road in the game menus and when you load up the game in YouTube videos. But I'm wondering if in the settings screen for the game if you can enable it. It's not a big loss if it's not there (It's in MAT3 of course), but it's a slap in the face of fans to include a game but not the expansion that operator's could purchase that represent the version most people played. I don't think I ever saw a Super Off-Road cabinet where I couldn't select the dune buggy and didn't have access to the entire slate of tracks. So I'm sure it was an upgrade that most operator's purchased.

 

In Wizard of Wor on Midway Arcade Treasures 2, you're moving way too fast immediately. So it sounds as if they've at least taken a step in the right direction there even if it's perhaps still not quite perfect.

I can check Super Off-Road for you when I get the chance. Yeah Wizard is very much playable except on the last stage of speed ups the monsters get. They fly around way too fast and I cant remember if the arcade was like that.

 

Nope I didn't see it. No buggies or special tracks. Although you can turn bikini's on or off from the settings screen.

 

I also noticed on the settings screen you can change the graphics for all the games to sharp, clean and smooth. I keep it on sharp which is the original pixelated arcade. Clean makes them look like the nasty XboxLive Sega Golden Axe enhanced graphics. Smooth simply smooths off the edges and gives it a softer look. On some games it works well. I still prefer original sharp mode though.

[cimerians]

Hm.. It might be worth it just for Wizard of Wor then, considering it doesn't play in overdrive mode like it does on the other collections.

 

I still think the Atari and possibly C64 versions are the best. I tried it again tonight and its definitely playable, I got around 15,000 on free play (not sure what the leaderboards are up to) but its still a damn hard game.

 

Kinda of having fun with this now. Still disappointed there's no extra stuff.

Edited November 9, 2012 by cimerians

[Atariboy]

Thanks

 

I didn't think the Track Pack would sneak in there when they counted it as an individual game on Midway Arcade Treasures 3. Perhaps they're saving it for Midway Arcade Evolved next year...

 

A video I skimmed through earlier showed some disappointing news with Root Beer Tapper. The musical score stops at times (I think it happened after collecting a tip) and doesn't return until the next level. So it looks like XBLA Tapper is still the way to go with this game (Has perfect audio, something none of the previous compilation releases quite had). And it makes it the most screwed up compilation release of Tapper as well since earlier compilation releases had just a few insignificant sound effects slightly off that are played at the end of the levels. Disappointing that such a thing could happen in a game that they've been emulating for years.

 

They also mentioned some other similar audio issues but I was only skimming the video and didn't hear any specifics. Also heard some sort of complaint about the control with the twin stick shooters. Don't have a clue what that's about and doubt it's a real issue when they've always gotten dual stick control in things like Robotron 2084 and Smash TV right in the past (Including on the Xbox 360 itself on XBLA).

Edited November 9, 2012 by Atariboy