TI-99/4A - The Good Ole Days

[slinkeey]

I have been tempted to get a TT-99/4A to play around with again as it was my first computer.

 

I had that computer back in the 80’s. Unfortunately, a childhood friend of mine tripped over the audio/video cable when it was hooked up to the TV and it destroyed the circuit board and the DIN connector. We had jumpers soldered on the board where the traces were cracked.

 

Looking back, I wish I would have kept it because I would have no problem repairing it these days.

 

Actually, tossing a F18A in that baby would be the way to go if I still had it. Skip using composite or RF altogether.

 

Anyways, I am not really a gamer so I am thinking that if I bought one to tinker with it would probably just collect dust. I am actually a programmer these days, so I suppose the TI is what I cut my teeth on. It’s just hard to imagine controlling loops and using conditional statements back when I was in grade school.

 

I would imagine that many of gotten the hang of programming by starting out on a TI.

 

If I bought a TI, I would most likely just get it to see how far the envelope can get pushed over the years. F18A. Maybe Ethernet. I would imagine that you would need an external processor and memory to offload anything not directly related to the end application.

[+Lee Stewart]

I have been tempted to get a TT-99/4A to play around with again as it was my first computer.

 

I had that computer back in the 80’s. Unfortunately, a childhood friend of mine tripped over the audio/video cable when it was hooked up to the TV and it destroyed the circuit board and the DIN connector. We had jumpers soldered on the board where the traces were cracked.

 

Looking back, I wish I would have kept it because I would have no problem repairing it these days.

 

Actually, tossing a F18A in that baby would be the way to go if I still had it. Skip using composite or RF altogether.

 

Anyways, I am not really a gamer so I am thinking that if I bought one to tinker with it would probably just collect dust. I am actually a programmer these days, so I suppose the TI is what I cut my teeth on. It’s just hard to imagine controlling loops and using conditional statements back when I was in grade school.

 

I would imagine that many of gotten the hang of programming by starting out on a TI.

 

If I bought a TI, I would most likely just get it to see how far the envelope can get pushed over the years. F18A. Maybe Ethernet. I would imagine that you would need an external processor and memory to offload anything not directly related to the end application.

 

Welcome aboard, @slinkeey! I'd been programming for 20 years when I got hooked with the TI-99/4A in 1983. My interest probably would have waned but for the release into the public domain by TI of TI Forth. That language kept me going into the 90s. I got back in about a year and a half ago when I found a surprising Web presence, especially here at AtariAge. I've been going at it with TI Forth and TurboForth (developed by Mark Wills (@Willsy on this site) and sold as a cartridge) quite a bit since getting back to the TI.

 

You will find a lot of information here and many other places, as well. There are quite a few knowledgeable folks here. You can probably get outfitted with another TI-99/4A for not many $$---maybe even free for some parts. One problem would be shipping due to the weight of the PEB in particular. In what part of the world are you located?

 

There are also several TI-99/4A emulators and simulators available for Windows and Linux that would allow your getting back into it without having to acquire the hardware right away.

 

Again, welcome aboard!

 

...lee

[slinkeey]

These days I program in Java & RPG.

 

I am in the Milwaikee, WI area.

 

The emulator sounds like a good idea to get my feet wet again. I guess we will see.

[+Lee Stewart]

These days I program in Java & RPG.

 

I am in the Milwaikee, WI area.

 

The emulator sounds like a good idea to get my feet wet again. I guess we will see.

 

You're an hour and a half from Evanston, IL, where Da Faire is held every November at the Evanston Public Library (see the "Events" sticky thread at the top of this forum). It's November 2-3 this year. There is always equipment for sale (some free). I have never been to it because of distance and time; but, I am going to try this year---not sure, yet.

 

Regarding emulators, the "Development" sticky thread has a lot of information.

 

...lee

[slinkeey]

I noticed that I was very close to the Faire. I have other events going on though... Maybe next year I will check it out for the heck of it.

 

So you were a programmer before the 99 came along? Interesting.

 

I will have to browse this site to see what types of things people do these days with their TI-99/4A

[Willsy]

Lee, that puts you as a programmer during the 60's - when computers were totally at their most awesome! Punch cards, core memory, output terminals, and of course, bootstrap panels!

 

Oh be still my beating heart! :lust: :lust:

 

You'll be telling me your 'other woman' was a PDP-11 next! (Or maybe a Data General Nova?)

[+Lee Stewart]

Lee, that puts you as a programmer during the 60's - when computers were totally at their most awesome! Punch cards, core memory, output terminals, and of course, bootstrap panels!

 

Oh be still my beating heart! :lust: :lust:

 

You'll be telling me your 'other woman' was a PDP-11 next! (Or maybe a Data General Nova?)

 

Mark...

 

I started out on an IBM 1620 programming in FORTRAN 2B and, yes, definitely punch cards (EBCDIC). Then, I was doing least-squares fits of data collected in a Physical Chemistry lab course in 1963! Turnaround times were 1-2 programs per week!! I was a much more careful programmer then. Later, it was FORTRAN IV and PL/I on IBM 7040 ,360, 370 and an Amdahl 470. By then, TA times were seconds through online terminals!

 

In 1975, I typed up my dissertation using IBM's online ATS "word processing" system. I usually had to wait overnight for printouts because the computer center would not change the big, highspeed lineprinter's drum just so I could print with full upper AND lower case letters. It was the first computer-generated dissertation accepted by the University of Cincinnati.

 

In 1976 I was programming a DG Nova, running an energy-dispersive x-ray fluorescence spectrometer, in Algol, Pascal, Fortran, Basic and Assembler. Once, just to prove I could do it, I entered a very short machine language program through the Nova's front-panel switches.

 

...lee

Edited September 25, 2012 by Lee Stewart

[slinkeey]

Lee,

 

So what is is about the TI-99 that keeps you hanging on? With such a wide variety of Machines, what is it about the TI?

 

Do you just like their instruction set? With modern machines so cheap and all of the open source IDE, compilers and etc, you could go crazy with all sorts of languages...

 

Just curious as to what it is about the TI-99? Was it because it was your first personal machine?

 

Do you play games on it? I will have to look at older posting from you and see what exactly you do with this machine. I find it very interesting that someone is still using a TI-99/4A that has been exposed to many different machines.

 

IBM RPG is about as close as I get to those old IBMs that you listed..

Edited September 25, 2012 by slinkeey

[Rod Van Orden]

Actually, you could fly to the moon and back using a TI-99/4A. As it was, I think they used 5 Apples in the Apollo (or Space Shuttle?).

The TI is simple, but capable of a fairly high level of complexity. I used to program vacuum tubes when I worked on the old

IBM SAGE Air Defense System. COSEAL was the assembly language. Punch cards, reel-to-reel tapes, etc....... YUK!

The funniest thing (sick humor time) was that vacuum tubes were highly resistant to EMP. SAGE was the system we would have

fought WW3 with. The Russians knew it too. They outfitted all their MIGs and bombers with vacuum tubes as well......

 

I learned to program in Pascal and C on the TI. And the TI does not occupy a two story building full of vaccum tubes!

[+Vorticon]

I read in 2008 this book http://www.amazon.co...ils_o00_s00_i00

You guys would feel right at home Nice read.

I actually started computing on a TI 99/4A in 1981 at the age of 16, but for me this was always a hobby among many others and did not take it up professionally. It's always fascinating to me how old hands like you guys seem to come up with code so quickly and seemingly effortlessly...

Edited September 26, 2012 by Vorticon

[+Lee Stewart]

Lee,

 

So what is is about the TI-99 that keeps you hanging on? With such a wide variety of Machines, what is it about the TI?

 

Do you just like their instruction set? With modern machines so cheap and all of the open source IDE, compilers and etc, you could go crazy with all sorts of languages...

 

Just curious as to what it is about the TI-99? Was it because it was your first personal machine?

 

Do you play games on it? I will have to look at older posting from you and see what exactly you do with this machine. I find it very interesting that someone is still using a TI-99/4A that has been exposed to many different machines.

 

IBM RPG is about as close as I get to those old IBMs that you listed..

 

I have other machines and have done lots of programming mostly in C and Visual Basic and some C++. My favorite language is probably C, but I got hooked on TI Forth back then and I've just kept busy in my spare time with TI Forth and TurboForth. One project that is ongoing is my editing of the original TI Forth Instruction Manual. My first edition is posted in the development thread at the head of this forum. I have added to it since then as well as corrected many of my errors in the first edition. I plan to include the complete TMS9900 assembly source code in the second edition as well as instructions for putting together the complete system from the source code and a file of the TI Forth system screens.

 

I plan one day to hoist TI Forth into cartridge space to reduce its memory footprint. Then, I may change the screen I/O to use files instead of direct sector reads/writes. I've let @Willsy sidetrack me (didn't take much coaxing) into putting together a floating point math package in TMS9900 assembler that does not rely on any console GPL/XML code. I thought about translating that console code, but have currently opted to convert Hoddie, Charlton, et al.'s Geneve MDOS code for this purpose. If I can manage it, it will be useful in a future version of TurboForth.

 

The TI was my first really working home computer. I had an IMSAI 8080 in the mid 70s, but never got it put together as a complete system. Over the years I have acquired 70-80 TI cartridges that have been used by me, my kids and grandkids on a system that has been readily available all these years. I had another system set up that some of my kids used for TI Writer, TI Logo, TI Artist, etc. My wife used to use TI Writer for her adoption home study reports. I was constantly in the position of teaching and assisting all users. I personally do not play games that much because they easily become addicting and I'd rather spend my time doing the above and writing such programs as the one described here that I started in the mid 80s and finished just last year after getting back into the TI scene. Sorry for all the rambling. I'm retired and having a ball with it!

 

...lee

[+Lee Stewart]

I read in 2008 this book http://www.amazon.co...ils_o00_s00_i00

You guys would feel right at home Nice read.

I actually started computing on a TI 99/4A in 1981 at the age of 16, but for me this was always a hobby among many others and did not take it up professionally. It's always fascinating to me how old hands like you guys seem to come up with code so quickly and seemingly effortlessly...

 

It takes a certain kind of warped mind for that, Walid.

[+retroclouds]

Welcome slinkeey!

 

So you are interested what us guys keeps us interested in the TI-99/4A?

 

For me it's basically nolstalgic reasons. It was my first computer and I used it to learn how to program.

 

Even though this group is hosted on Atariage and games definitely are an issue, you'll find that most of the people here enjoy programming a lot more than actually playing games.

Heck, that also includes me

 

Myself, I started learning TMS9900 assembly language about 4 years ago and from there on wrote a full game in assembly language and -from time to time- am working on a second game.

The strange thing is, I almost never play games. Perhaps the occasional 5 minutes and then I'm of doing something else.

What really interests me are getting the most out of the TMS9918VDP, programming languages, working on development tools, etc.

I'm also interested in new hardware (but not actively participating in development), e.g. F18A, cartridge PCBs

 

I visit Atariage on a daily basis, because I find it a friendly place and the forum gives you a good overview of what currently is going on.

Even though I'm not a Forth guy, I really enjoy reading what Willsy, Lee and Rod are working on.

[slinkeey]

I was probably abouy 7 or 8 when I had a TI-99/4A. My grandparents gave it to me. They got it for free (well nothing is free) with a furniture set from American TV.

 

I never really played games on it.. The only game I had was tunnels of doom, and I never played it. All I really did was play around with Basic, reading through books and magazines. I tinkered. I would even hack up some small Commodore programs from the magazine to work on th TI.

 

My Great Uncle still has a TI-99/4A sitting in a box in his closet. My Great aunt keeps telling him to hand it down to me, but he is still attached to it even though he has not touched it in years. He said he might bring it back out again. I can't blame him!

[Retrospect]

For me, I hang on to the Ti because it was my second computer.... but the one computer I favoured to most.

My first was a TRS-80 Model 1, but after around a year I was handed down a Ti 99 from my cousin.

 

It had Extended Basic and a cassette recorder, the key ingredients needed for programming and I started straight away.

 

Because of the games I had, I never got into the programming part too heavily. I had Parsec, Munch Man, Tombstone City all

on cartridge and various cassette games, "Castle Conquerer" was one of them, a clone of Hunchback.

 

In the 80's , people who made games for the Ti99 would advertise in local newspapers, I remember travelling 40 miles to buy a game (the UK was not good for TI games)

 

I noticed recently there has been a bit of a surge of new ZX Spectrum games, programmed by enthusiasts and hobbyists, some for free, some for a price.

 

I would love to see a surge of new games for the Ti99, after looking through this forum there seems to be lots of capable people out there who could make that happen, but there seems to be a lot of hardware stuff going on ....

[+Vorticon]

There are a lot of interesting new games in various stages of completion floating around, but unfortunately most seem to be stalled simply because for most of us this is a hobby, and it should never feel like work.

As the author of one of them (Ultimate Planet), I really have no excuse. It's just that I have so many interests that I tend to hop around quite frequently. Right now I'm trying to get proficient at Turbo Forth and maybe have something to show at the upcoming TI Faire, but I'm also using a lot of my free time painting a Warhammer Bretonian army Go figure...

Oh I will eventually finish Ultimate Planet, it's just that I'm not too sure of the timeline

Edited September 27, 2012 by Vorticon

[Retrospect]

Yes, good point ... it should be treat as a hobby and not feel like work.

I am at the moment programming a new game too, it's based on the old T.V. show "TerraHawks"...

Remember the end sequence when the Zeroids and the square things went into battle on a tic-tac-toe board?

Well that's the game!

[slinkeey]

What is the plan for all of this TI Forth Dev. going on? Controlling hardware level devices and etc?

 

It's not really a gaming language, right?

 

Having the TI Function as a PLC??

Using it to write interfaces for modern peripherals?

[+Lee Stewart]

What is the plan for all of this TI Forth Dev. going on? Controlling hardware level devices and etc?

 

It's not really a gaming language, right?

 

Having the TI Function as a PLC??

Using it to write interfaces for modern peripherals?

 

You can pretty much do what you want with Forth on the 4A, whether it's TurboForth, TI Forth or a few other Forth dialects that are probably still in use. It's faster than Basic, often approaching assembly language code (ALC), especially when writing in Forth Assembler. Forth Assembler even allows you to write structured ALC! It can certainly be a little difficult to learn the RPN nature of Forth coding, but you can do anything with the 4A in Forth that you can do in any other language. Forth is an extensible language. It allows you to do bottom-up programming. You can test the words you define immediately. Here's a quote from Leo Brodie's book, Thinking Forth: "Forth is a programming environment for creating application-oriented languages."

 

Plan? We gotta have a plan? As for the floating point development, it's nice to have that capability for many applications, though a case can certainly be made for fixed-point, i.e., integer math (with scaling) in Forth. The case of having a console-independent FP library allows us to avoid the vagaries of the GPL interpreter, to put working storage where we want it and, hopefully, faster execution. @Willsy can give better information in that regard.

 

Sorry, I am rambling---what was the question? You probably know much of this, anyway.

 

...lee

[+Lee Stewart]

What is the plan for all of this TI Forth Dev. going on? Controlling hardware level devices and etc?

 

It's not really a gaming language, right?

 

Having the TI Function as a PLC??

Using it to write interfaces for modern peripherals?

 

...and, here's an excellent example of a game written in TurboForth by @Willsy: Dark Star

 

...lee

[Willsy]

What is the plan for all of this TI Forth Dev. going on? Controlling hardware level devices and etc?

 

It's not really a gaming language, right?

 

Having the TI Function as a PLC??

Using it to write interfaces for modern peripherals?

 

No, it's just another programming language. You can use it for anything you like Not only is around 75 times faster than extended basic, it's also vastly more powerful.

 

I'll be producing a port of Manic Miner using it when I have finished tinkering with the V1.2 kernal

[slinkeey]

Another crazy question...

 

Are you guys mostly using a TI-99/4A, or are you using emulation.. I would guess that an emulator is nice for development because you have copy and paste. Easier to share notes with one another.

[Retrospect]

For me, both. Although for programming anything larger than 8K or so, it is more beneficial to use a PC with an emulator (my personal favourite is Classic 99 from Tursi, it works extremely well and has to be the closest thing to a TI99 ever.)

 

Having said that, there's nothing quite like the feel of the TI keyboard, with it's brushed aluminium finish and clackety-clack keys!

[+Lee Stewart]

Both for me, as well. Right now I'm using emulators much more often because development is faster. I use Classic99 and MESS most of the time. Classic99 would be my favorite except that I cannot use it very often for TI Forth because there are no sector writes for Classic99 yet. I have to go to MESS for that, which works very well. I do prefer Classic99's debugger, though, to be fair, I have not really given MESS's debugger much of an effort.

 

...lee

[Tursi]

Both for me, too. I wrote Classic99 to aid development but there are some things that it doesn't do well, and has to be run on the real machine. Also it's always a good check that code works on the real hardware if developed under emulation, even if you aren't doing anything tricky. Plus I /love/ seeing a cartridge I made come up. I wanted that ability so much as a kid.

 

Hmm. I am comfortable adding sector writes to Classic99's disk image support, I just don't have time to add file writes or true DSR right at the moment. If that would help you at all, Lee.