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YOU DECIDE....the integrity of the HSC


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#26 Atarifever OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:10 PM

Guys, did you know 7800 Robotron 2084 can be played with 2 controllers, even on "1 Player" Mode?

I don't understand the question. How else would you play it?

I personally hold the controllers so that my thumbs are on top of the controllers (every way I try to explain that that is more specific sounds dirty) and it's basically like having a Wii nunchuck in each hand. I wish it were possible to wire two nunchucks up to the 7800 actually, as that would be a kickass way to play some Robotron.

#27 oyamafamily OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:54 PM

I don't understand the question. How else would you play it?

I personally hold the controllers so that my thumbs are on top of the controllers (every way I try to explain that that is more specific sounds dirty) and it's basically like having a Wii nunchuck in each hand. I wish it were possible to wire two nunchucks up to the 7800 actually, as that would be a kickass way to play some Robotron.


Robotron 2084 on Atari 7800 uses 2 controllers. This scheme is valid for 1 or 2-player modes.
Controller 1 (Left): Move this controller to move the character; press and hold Left Button to shoot in the direction the player is moving.
Controller 2 (Right): Move this controller to shoot in the direction you want to fire.

On ProSystem Emulator, I configured the following scheme to play Robotron 2084 EXCLUSIVELY with two controllers:
CONTROLLER 1 (LEFT CONTROLLER): Default Keys on QWERTY Keyboard - Arrows to move, Z key for Left Button, and X key for Right Button.
CONTROLLER 2 (RIGHT CONTROLLER): A, S, D and W to shoot in the desired direction (A = Left, S = Down, D = Right, and W = Up).

#28 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:28 PM

Just putting my cents in here. I've never participated in the 7800 HSC, but I can tell you there have always been suspicions from other members about oyama's scores. They're frequently high to the point of ridiculous. If he is cheating, he's somewhat smart about it, but not sure if he's smart enough in this case. I always assumed he would eventually encounter a game where a score he presented was literally impossible based on the game program, kind of like how if anyone tells you they beat RC Pro-Am they're full of it because the AI is programmed to become impossible to beat after a certain point, but with cheats you can keep winning (though there is no ending). Seems pretty clear he's using save states or something, and I wouldn't doubt he has on multiple games in the HSCs. I try not to care about this, but outright cheating just makes it not fun sometimes. It's hard not to doubt incredibly high scores done on an emulator, especially when you compare them to scores via a gamer like toymailman who does it on a real system and posts pictures of it on his television. It's further suspicious that oyama never has defended himself when he has been confronted on it, and in this case simply deleted his "scores" so no one could see them.

#29 VectorGamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:37 PM

Yeah we had a guy on the Arcade/MAME HSC that would always submit huge scores. When another member asked what techniques he used in a particular game there was no response. Also, the individual never defended himself when the HSC was flooded with accusations of him cheating.

#30 NE146 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:41 PM

Honestly.. any forum "fun" video game competition is purely based on integrity. But the nature of that is how widely open it is for someone (for some reason unknown to the rest of us) CAN decide to "cheat" in some odd way or other to show that he can get a high score. But based upon trust, you trust that won't happen.

So why anyone would want to bother is beyond me and would just strike at a really sad character. :lol: It'd be like someone trying to win in a round of Pin the Tale on the Donkey by purposely peeking through the blindfold. Or in mini-golf putting the ball in the hole by hand and marking it as a hole in one. The question is WHY BOTHER. :P Is it because you want to "win"? :lol: But whatever, it is what it is.

Edited by NE146, Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:42 PM.


#31 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:52 PM

The question is WHY BOTHER. :P Is it because you want to "win"? :lol: But whatever, it is what it is.


This should explain all you need to know:



#32 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:55 PM

Also, the individual never defended himself when the HSC was flooded with accusations of him cheating.


That's usually the give-away. Now, of course, don't doubt he will respond. If he doesn't he knows it's more suspicious, and if he does in the way I suspect he will it will still be suspicious, or rather verified, be so the trap is set.

Edited by Stan, Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:17 PM.


#33 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:51 AM

Still no response from the cheater, I think you guys have all the evidence you need. I'd personally kick him out of all of them. Gibe muny plox.

#34 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:26 AM

This should explain all you need to know:


I watched that video 3 times and still don't know what it means. Did gibberish-speaking monsters build a giant flying dinosaur duck to burn down a village?

#35 NE146 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:29 PM

I watched that video 3 times and still don't know what it means. Did gibberish-speaking monsters build a giant flying dinosaur duck to burn down a village?


Yeah I honestly didn't get it too much either. :lol:

#36 LidLikesIntellivision OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:52 PM

Prejudice against Brazilians, especially in MMO games. BR comes from Brazil.
Stan was talking about Oyamafamily who, like me, is Brazilian...

It seems there are many, many Brazilians in MMO servers...
I don't know if such a huge group would visit AtariAge's HSC, and make a big moster who breaks all Atari records!

I wonder if I should merge with Oyama... ...argh, better not, I think he is a man and I'm not prepared for this... :P

Yeah I honestly didn't get it too much either. :lol:



#37 stephena OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:32 PM

Prejudice against Brazilians, especially in MMO games. BR comes from Brazil.
Stan was talking about Oyamafamily who, like me, is Brazilian...

It seems there are many, many Brazilians in MMO servers...
I don't know if such a huge group would visit AtariAge's HSC, and make a big moster who breaks all Atari records!

I wonder if I should merge with Oyama... ...argh, better not, I think he is a man and I'm not prepared for this... :P


Interestingly enough, I was just looking at the Stella download logs, and it shows that Brazil is the top country for downloads (currently at 33%).

#38 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:22 PM

Obviously I meant it in jest. Apparently it's based on a real series of events where Brazil passed some sort of law into effect that gave children free access to the internet. Somehow codes to the North American server of a game, I believe Ragnarok, got out and a ton of Brazilians, mostly teenagers and younger players, started to flood the game and would level their characters to ridiculous limits (thus the 9999 stuff, which I was using as a reference to oyama's strangely high scores, which are now in question), killing everyone, causing problems, warring with other gamers, and so forth. If you look up the HUEHUEHUE meme you should find information about it.

#39 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:23 PM

Interestingly enough, I was just looking at the Stella download logs, and it shows that Brazil is the top country for downloads (currently at 33%).


The plot thickens. Still no oyama. No surprise.

#40 oyamafamily OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:34 AM

Sincerely, really and seriously, I have to tell you, Stan:
I practiced 7800 B*nQ and Pac-Man Collection (Turbo Mode) MUCH MORE before playing them on HSC.

I suggested Turbo Mode (Fast Mode ON) to play Pac-Man Collection on 7800 HSC / Season 5.

And here is my own true story about Video Gaming Experience:

From 1986 to 1989, I had an Atari 2600 VCS at home and I played some favorite games: Frostbite, River Raid, Enduro, and Pac-man. I got a score between 350,000 and 380,000 points on Frostbite, which was my favorite game. The console which I have is Dactari, the Brazilian Version of Atari 2600.

In 1992, I played two greatest games using Nintendo Game Boy: Super Mario Land (I beat the game via finishing World 4-3, the Final Stage, and I rescued the Princess Daisy many times), and Pac-Man (my personal record obtained is 220,000 points, approximately).

Since 1999, I have played many Atari 2600 games using Stella Emulator just for knowing and training. With this emulator, I rolled the score in some games when I was practicing: 1,000,000+ on Millipede, Megamania, H.E.R.O., Dig Dug and Buck Rogers; 100,000+ on Turmoil, Beany Bopper, Boing, and Dark Chambers (which is one of my favorite 2600 games).

And since 2007, I have tried Atari 7800 ProSystem Emulator, with the following games: Ms. Pac-Man, Dark Chambers, Dig Dug, Galaga etc. just for training.


These are my experiences obtained when the subject discussed is VIDEO GAME.

Edited by oyamafamily, Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:43 AM.


#41 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:06 AM

Sincerely, really and seriously, I have to tell you, Stan:
I practiced 7800 B*nQ and Pac-Man Collection (Turbo Mode) MUCH MORE before playing them on HSC.

I suggested Turbo Mode (Fast Mode ON) to play Pac-Man Collection on 7800 HSC / Season 5.

And here is my own true story about Video Gaming Experience:

From 1986 to 1989, I had an Atari 2600 VCS at home and I played some favorite games: Frostbite, River Raid, Enduro, and Pac-man. I got a score between 350,000 and 380,000 points on Frostbite, which was my favorite game. The console which I have is Dactari, the Brazilian Version of Atari 2600.

In 1992, I played two greatest games using Nintendo Game Boy: Super Mario Land (I beat the game via finishing World 4-3, the Final Stage, and I rescued the Princess Daisy many times), and Pac-Man (my personal record obtained is 220,000 points, approximately).

Since 1999, I have played many Atari 2600 games using Stella Emulator just for knowing and training. With this emulator, I rolled the score in some games when I was practicing: 1,000,000+ on Millipede, Megamania, H.E.R.O., Dig Dug and Buck Rogers; 100,000+ on Turmoil, Beany Bopper, Boing, and Dark Chambers (which is one of my favorite 2600 games).

And since 2007, I have tried Atari 7800 ProSystem Emulator, with the following games: Ms. Pac-Man, Dark Chambers, Dig Dug, Galaga etc. just for training.


These are my experiences obtained when the subject discussed is VIDEO GAME.


Notice how he doesn't really deny anything, and still never says anything about the fact that he WAS caught cheating on a game where he gave a point total that was literally impossible. Please, that is the issue to explain here oyama, don't give us some general bullshat story in your strange typing fashion. I almost wonder if you're taking someone else's story. I'm talking about Desert Falcon, which was clearly a cheat and has thus put all of yours scores in question. Instead of telling us about how you rule at games that don't even apply here in order to divert the discussion, explain why you cheated on Desert Falcon and we'll go from there.

WHOO HOO HOO WHOO WHOO HOOO HOOO and all of that.

Edited by Stan, Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:07 AM.


#42 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:11 AM

From 1986 to 1989, I had an Atari 2600 VCS at home and I played some favorite games: Frostbite, River Raid, Enduro, and Pac-man. I got a score between 350,000 and 380,000 points on Frostbite, which was my favorite game. The console which I have is Dactari, the Brazilian Version of Atari 2600.


Note the section I put in bold and increased the size of. Really, oyama, if you actually have a console on which you play these games, why then did you submit the scores for them last 2600 HSC round that included them VIA EMULATOR? And, a minor point, but in the last Frostbite 2600 HSC you never once mentioned how it was your favorite game, which is what a normal person who made that statement would say. Oh man this is my favorite game can't wait to get a high score! Is it a minor point, or another chink in the armor that is the truth of oyamafamily's lies?

Edited by Stan, Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:16 AM.


#43 roadrunner OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:49 AM

I thought Xenophobe was oyama's favorite game?
Our moderator needs to chime in on this subject, he's been mostly hands off on this whole topic.

#44 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:21 AM

I thought Xenophobe was oyama's favorite game?


These are but the small chinks, I'm telling you, shit's bout to go down in heah.

#45 Chuck D. Head OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:24 AM

I have to think that, if it were my character being questioned I would either A - leave in a huff of self righteous bluster or, B - submit just one video proving one of these unbelievable scores; most likely ending the video with me saluting the viewers with double eagles. I haven't kept up to date on this whole thing, but yeah, the language barrier sure is a convenient level of distraction. Will be interesting too see how it plays out....

#46 oyamafamily OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:58 AM

I thought Xenophobe was oyama's favorite game?
Our moderator needs to chime in on this subject, he's been mostly hands off on this whole topic.


Roadrunner: Sincerely and seriously, Xenophobe and Dark Chambers are my the greatest expertises on 2600 & 7800 versions. They are the champions in my preference.

Stan: On 7800 Desert Falcon Highest Difficulties, SINCERELY - I sat behind the obstacles (pyramids, obelisks, pots and Mini-Sphinx) and I shot some enemies, especially at the presence of more and more enemies in action on the screen. On later levels (more enemies in action), I moved forward more slowly and I stayed behind the obstacles as my technique to get huge scores (except when I get Invincible power-up). I submitted my score of 1,000,000+ points on Advanced and Expert Modes. I believed I didn't follow this rule:

Please do not abuse bugs in the games!
Many Atari games have loopholes that allow you to easily get huge amounts of points without much work - (An example of such "point scumming" in Asteroids, you can eliminate all but one small asteroid, and then "hunt" UFO's without the level ending), or finish the game while skipping alot of the actual content. Not only do these result in somewhat bogus high scores, but it ruins the fun and challenge of the game in the process.
I'll try to point out "forbidden" tactics as i become aware of them, but if you happen to stumble across one that i was not aware of, please let me know!
(Note: If a bug is proven to exist partway through the contest, existing scores may be removed if it can be proven that they have exploited the bug even if it was not intentional. If you have triggered the bug accidentally, i would urge you to voluntarily remove your score and post a new one.)


Stan: On 7800 Galaga (Season 4 of 7800 HSC), I submitted my score and I didn't removed it. I used the feature which I MUST NOT utilize on Prosystem Emulator - Region, aka Color System (I set the Region to PAL mode, when Automatic / NTSC is the right mode).

Edited by oyamafamily, Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:18 PM.


#47 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:27 PM

Stan: On 7800 Desert Falcon Highest Difficulties, SINCERELY - I sat behind the obstacles (pyramids, obelisks, pots and Mini-Sphinx) and I shot some enemies, especially at the presence of more and more enemies in action on the screen. On later levels (more enemies in action), I moved forward more slowly and I stayed behind the obstacles as my technique to get huge scores (except when I get Invincible power-up). I submitted my score of 1,000,000+ points on Advanced and Expert Modes. I believed I didn't follow this rule:

Please do not abuse bugs in the games!


Notice again, people, how he is not once defending himself in a way that would be expected for someone that would be truly angry for being accused of cheating, and language is not an issue here. Oyama has a clear grasp of English. Further, even more revealing, is that he has NOT ONCE PMed me about this issue. That would be what anyone would have immediately done! I don't care about possible language barrier, which he doesn't have, if someone said "Stan you're cheating", I'd PM them to see what they were on about, but he hasn't, once. Why? Simple, he's doing what any liar would do, he's trying to divert attention away from the lie into other areas. Any normal person accused of something wrongly immediately confronts the accuser, they don't sit back and remain silent until prompted to do so. The fact is simple, a liar doesn't act normally, because they're lying. It takes a good actor to pull it off.

Also, what he says above is NOT the issue! It wasn't a bug! The issue here is that you cheated in some way, which couldn't have been a bug in this particular game. To reiterate the problem, the score of 1mil+ that you got could have only been done by CHEATING, not bugs. You're using save states or some other artificial means to increase your scores man. The fact that you deleted them is proof that you're trying to cover your tracks. Desert Falcon's score in expert, as stated, cannot be achieved in the way you did by legitimate means, OR by using bugs. The rule you broke is you CHEATED. How, we don't know, because you haven't told us yet. I suspect some sort of simple increase in lives, perhaps you're even smart enough to mess with the game code I don't know. Whatever it is, it wasn't a bug. What you're explaining above is still NOT possible based on how the game works! Even if it was, and manipulating game mechanics was the issue, the fact was you did it and knew exactly what you were doing. Everyone knows in any of these HSCs that you can't point dump by sitting in one place. So come on man, admit how you did it and leave it at that. Being honest at this point will save you from agony that you will soon have coming upon you on these forums. I now do not trust any score you post here. I had my suspicions before, and I knew at some point this would happen, where you would get a score in a game that was literally impossible.

#48 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:34 PM

3) Finally, I recommend all the participants to use Twin Galaxies Official Rules as an additional rule for many HSCs.


That's another thing, Oyama, how come you don't have any scores on Twin Galaxies, hmmm (at least not that I'm aware of)? I'd expect someone with your skills would have done that by now. Or is it that, really, you're not playing legit 80% of the time? How come you conveniently never seem to play games where cheating/save states would really get you anywhere? That's where my suspicions first began.

#49 oyamafamily OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:38 PM

I admit, Stan.
I used Save States constantly when I was playing Atari Games for the first times on my emulator. Also, some unfair advantages - slow-motion (framerate below 60 FPS) and load states. I will give an example only: 2600 BEAMRIDER.
When I was playing Beamrider outside the HSC, I saved / loaded states periodically ultil the maximum score of 999,999 points and maximum sector number (99) to see what happens. I noticed that Beamrider continues at 999,999 points and even completing 99 sectors. I used slow-motion to see with attention the enemies movements, and the scoring per sector in Beamrider. After knowing Beamrider Operation, I played at normal speed (on Stella, I adjusted the framerate to 60 FPS) to apply the knowledge.

When I played Beamrider on Season 7 of 2600 HSC (Week 42), I scored more than 200,000 points on the last attempt (but under normal speed - FPS60, and paying attention in the settings). At the starting of this contest, I gave some informations (tips, notes and scoring).

Edited by oyamafamily, Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:41 PM.


#50 NIKON OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:28 PM

I admit, Stan.
I used Save States constantly when I was playing Atari Games for the first times on my emulator. Also, some unfair advantages - slow-motion (framerate below 60 FPS) and load states. I will give an example only: 2600 BEAMRIDER.
When I was playing Beamrider outside the HSC, I saved / loaded states periodically ultil the maximum score of 999,999 points and maximum sector number (99) to see what happens. I noticed that Beamrider continues at 999,999 points and even completing 99 sectors. I used slow-motion to see with attention the enemies movements, and the scoring per sector in Beamrider. After knowing Beamrider Operation, I played at normal speed (on Stella, I adjusted the framerate to 60 FPS) to apply the knowledge.

When I played Beamrider on Season 7 of 2600 HSC (Week 42), I scored more than 200,000 points on the last attempt (but under normal speed - FPS60, and paying attention in the settings). At the starting of this contest, I gave some informations (tips, notes and scoring).


what has that got to do with the 7800 HSC ??? :sleep:

Edited by NIKON, Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:29 PM.





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