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YOU DECIDE....the integrity of the HSC


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#76 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:44 AM

It's moot. The HSC is an honor system and you would never be able to prove if someone is practicing with save states. Practicing with save states wouldn't be a crime anyway. Submitting a score using save states would. But how will you ever know?


As I said above, video. They'll need to record themselves, showing about the last 2 minutes of the score achieved. There will be no question then.

#77 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:47 AM

You wouldn't. The whole point of these friendly competitions is pure honor system. You expect everyone is making a legitimate go on the game, and why shouldn't you if you're participating? :).

Anybody can use emulators, save states, or slow gameplay to play a perfect game of Ms. Pacman forever until they reach 500,000 points. But the whole point of doing these things is having fun and seeing how well you can do with a legit straight up play. You simply do not expect anyone to actually "cheat" because again, "why" would you even bother? To show off your fake high score in a friendly competition? That's some sad stuff man.. :lol:


Sad yes, but sadly true in this case. We've pretty much come to the conclusion via some private PM conversations that he has, in fact, been seriously cheating sadly all the time probably. Honor system is easy for us playing on real hardware, we can't cheat. And yeah, it's just a game, but how about emu players take the time to put in a little effort and record their work? It's really not complicated. Or, perhaps, we do it like this:

Two scoring systems, or rather two columns or brackets. All scores submitted, and those that have been proven. This means scores submitting on real hardware or emu scores proven via video. All can "participate", but only the scores in the proven category count towards the real competition. So you could have two separate winners, in theory. That feeling of "I'm not really a winner" would give me personally the incentive to record and prove if I was using an emulator. Seems like a pretty simple idea and easy enough to implement. NIKON has already talked to me extensively in PM how he's able to record and cut raw video down to reasonable file and time size for display on here. It's simple.

#78 VectorGamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:49 AM

As I said above, video. They'll need to record themselves, showing about the last 2 minutes of the score achieved. There will be no question then.


F*** it - have them record the entire game. But don't you think the rule has to apply to everyone?

#79 Chuck D. Head OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:00 AM

I would definitely have to stay in the "participation" group then, cause I aint doing all that. And we dont have enough participation to make it harder to join in, so it would have to be a side by side optional thing. Limiting to hardware would curb participation also, or would it? I usually only play games I have carts for, but if I had a harmony cart I would play every week. How many people would really be out if it were hardware only? Show of hands?

Edit: I would also be wary of adding more work for the moderator. Even if Vocelli was willing, what happens when he tires of the job and a new suck,..er volunteer is needed?

#80 NIKON OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:01 AM

F*** it - have them record the entire game. But don't you think the rule has to apply to everyone?


I started this whole thing in defense of real console users...I used to own alot of consoles and carts and TG 16 cards.. I KNOW the money involved for such a hobby. Console users do not have the features of emulators afforded to them..no I would not have the console users video their games.

I use emulation and recording your game play is easy...just a couple of clicks and you are off.

#81 NIKON OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:03 AM

I would definitely have to stay in the "participation" group then, cause I aint doing all that. And we dont have enough participation to make it harder to join in, so it would have to be a side by side optional thing. Limiting to hardware would curb participation also, or would it? I usually only play games I have carts for, but if I had a harmony cart I would play every week. How many people would really be out if it were hardware only? Show of hands?

Edit: I would also be wary of adding more work for the moderator. Even if Vocelli was willing, what happens when he tires of the job and a new suck,..er volunteer is needed?


I would have to depart the HSC's if it became hardware only. I no longer own any hardware or software.

#82 Gorfy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:03 AM

I use emulation and recording your game play is easy...just a couple of clicks and you are off.


Perhaps you could post a short tutorial on how to do this for both the 2600 and 7800 hsc's?

#83 Chuck D. Head OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:04 AM

What is the worst cheat you could perform on hardware? Other than squatting for points or a pause mod, I can't think of any...

#84 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:05 AM

Honor system is easy for us playing on real hardware, we can't cheat.


That's not exactly true. I remember when Kay Bee was selling rapid-fire doohickeys that worked with the Atari 2600 and they might also work with the Atari 7800.




F*** it - have them record the entire game. But don't you think the rule has to apply to everyone?


It only needs to apply to people who are acting shady.

#85 Gorfy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:05 AM

I need to use emulation for about 30% of the games played, which I don't own. If it's as easy as NIKON says, then I would be willing to record game play for these.

#86 Chuck D. Head OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:06 AM

I would have to depart the HSC's if it became hardware only. I no longer own any hardware or software.

Well then I guess you arent asking anyone to do anything that doesn't affect you just as much as them. Yeah, this kinda sucks.

#87 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:10 AM

I need to use emulation for about 30% of the games played, which I don't own. If it's as easy as NIKON says, then I would be willing to record game play for these.


Check out this thread:

http://www.atariage....lla-users-ever/

It should work with an Atari 7800 emulator too.

#88 NIKON OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:17 AM

Perhaps you could post a short tutorial on how to do this for both the 2600 and 7800 hsc's?


I shall get to work on that right now

#89 NIKON OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:21 AM

Well then I guess you arent asking anyone to do anything that doesn't affect you just as much as them. Yeah, this kinda sucks.


i just answered your post.. that's all.... I am not asking anyone to do anything...this is all strictly voluntary.... I am all for the honor system but when it gets abused I don't just sit there and let it go.

#90 Gorfy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:22 AM

I shall get to work on that right now


Thanks, man

#91 Chuck D. Head OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:29 AM

i just answered your post.. that's all.... I am not asking anyone to do anything...this is all strictly voluntary.... I am all for the honor system but when it gets abused I don't just sit there and let it go.

No, I have no problem with anything you said, I was just saying that the whole situation sucks. I just hope he makes it easy on everyone and crawls back into the woodwork.

#92 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:06 PM

F*** it - have them record the entire game. But don't you think the rule has to apply to everyone?


Why it would apply to someone on real hardware when it's impossible for me to cheat?

#93 Stan OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:08 PM

That's not exactly true. I remember when Kay Bee was selling rapid-fire doohickeys that worked with the Atari 2600 and they might also work with the Atari 7800.

It only needs to apply to people who are acting shady.


Well, that's easy, I can show you a picture of the console, the game in it, and the controller sitting next to it. I don't have one anyway, nor do I know if it would work. Most 2600 games I can think of really don't function very well with rapid anyway if you pound your finger on the button. Second comment, yeah, I agree with that, but sometimes it can be hard to determine the shadiness, though I think oyama's showboating WHOO HOO business marked him from the beginning.

#94 Atarifever OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:14 PM

Listen, I have been in favour of required pics for a long time, and I'm frankly amazed we have gone from "say a number" to "video your play session" in so short a time. We didn't even do one season where all you had to do was put up a picture, and we've moved to Twin Galaxies.

I find that to be a big stretch, and I'd be afriad of scaring off future recruits. However, if this is what must be done because some people want to play a game unfairly, I guess we can do it. The only thing is, I think we need more positions than HSC Moderator if that is the case. This will be a ton of work. I think we need more volunteers so the extra work is on the dedicated players and not on new comers or the mod.

So perhaps we have a thread locked where NIKON does his tutorial, and he (or someone else) monitors that one to answer questions from newbies. Someone else can agree to do the review of recordings (you would obviously only need to check the final submitted entry once the round was closed), or we could all agree that we'll run random "spot checks" and PM anyone if we see anything we question.

#95 Atarifever OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:25 PM

Also, I still don't understand cheating here. I don't think I ever will. It serves no purpose. Very few people in the entire world will ever know you won, and, importantly, one of the people who will know it will be you, and you will know you actually did not. There isn't a prize, other than feeling like you are good at something fairly trivial, and if you know you are actually not even good at that fairly trivial thing, what have you got? A lot of your own time lost you will never get back. Sad.

#96 roadrunner OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:00 PM

I started this whole thing in defense of real console users...I used to own alot of consoles and carts and TG 16 cards.. I KNOW the money involved for such a hobby. Console users do not have the features of emulators afforded to them..no I would not have the console users video their games.

I use emulation and recording your game play is easy...just a couple of clicks and you are off.


I use that aTube catcher that NIKON posted a link to in the Desert Falcon thread.
It's easy to use. I haven't recorded anything longer than 13:30 minutes.
I don't know how to break it down in parts, maybe NIKON can post a video showing how to do it.
oyama said he uses the prosystem emulator and can't record his gameplay.
But aTube catcher works just fine on prosystem.


I would have no problem recording my gameplay.
To make it easier on newbee's maybe only have questionable scores require video proof or have 2 high score tables
one real hardware one emulation?

#97 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:08 PM

I use that aTube catcher that NIKON posted a link to in the Desert Falcon thread.


Have you tried Bandicam?

#98 VectorGamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:24 PM

Have you tried Bandicam?


Bandicam is shareware and has a limitation on your recording time if you don't purchase the full version.

#99 NIKON OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:32 PM

Perhaps you could post a short tutorial on how to do this for both the 2600 and 7800 hsc's?


here you go

http://www.atariage....ame-play-video/

#100 jblenkle OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:36 PM

My 2 cents...if ultimately we are required to submit proof (other than a screenshot) that we played a game legit on an emulator...I will simply stop participating in this or any other HSC that enforces such a rule. While I have a number of systems, I do not have them all, nor do I have every game ever made for the systems I do have. The implication here becomes if you can't prove you actually played the game without cheating...you must be cheating. I do not cheat...I have no reason to cheat...I play these games because I like playing them. If I get 1st place or last place, it doesn't matter. I do like the competition and I like to do as well as I can, but if we have to start taking extra measures to prove a score, it's no longer going to be fun to play...so why bother.




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