Jump to content

Photo

YOU DECIDE....the integrity of the HSC


196 replies to this topic

#176 Atarifever OFFLINE  

Atarifever

    Quadrunner

  • 5,103 posts
  • Killer of Robotrons
  • Location:The Republic of Newfoundland

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:20 AM

I still haven't ever read the rules. It doesn't matter which he broke. He used cheat-o-matic and save states. If there were no rules listed anywhere I, as a functional human being, would think "why would anyone be playing this contest if they can set themselves to God mode and get infinity points?" What wouyld be the point? To see who could sit at their computer and hold forward and fire for the longest? I don't care if he spams for points, but I wouldn't because that's boring, but I don't care if he does. I do care when someone sets themselves to invincible or saves and reloads if they die.

Can we just say "who gives a shit?" Really, we are splitting hairs over if he corked his bat AFTER he was found shooting up steroids in the dugout.

And on the topic of spamming for points, anyone who is legit about playing in the contest for fun will immediately know if they are doing this and if it is wrong. No one has to tell you if you are playing in a way that is boring, stupid, and not as intended. Are you supposed to move forward? Are you? Why not? Don't be a douche bag. Simple. Who needs this stuff spelled out for them? God people. Here's the new rules: Play all the games like you are playing the games. Done.

Edited by Atarifever, Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:25 AM.


#177 Mord OFFLINE  

Mord

    River Patroller

  • 2,683 posts
  • Location:Canada

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:12 AM

oyama,
in this video you made of Midnight Mutants, shouldn't you have died at the 6:59 mark?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGXwLLC8p70


Nope, just double checked and it's possible to be alive with an empty life bar.

#178 Atarifever OFFLINE  

Atarifever

    Quadrunner

  • 5,103 posts
  • Killer of Robotrons
  • Location:The Republic of Newfoundland

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:29 AM

Nope, just double checked and it's possible to be alive with an empty life bar.

If you're at exact 0 or is it possible to live at any negative level? I'm curious, as being alive with just the one bar would actually make the two bar thing make more sense.

#179 Mord OFFLINE  

Mord

    River Patroller

  • 2,683 posts
  • Location:Canada

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:22 PM

If you're at exact 0 or is it possible to live at any negative level? I'm curious, as being alive with just the one bar would actually make the two bar thing make more sense.


That I don't know since the health bar doesn't have a number displayed beyond the health bar. I just walked around letting enemies chip away at my life to see if I'd stay alive after it looked completely empty as in the video. If you take another point of damage when your bar is empty - from something that specifically damages the life bar, then you die.

(Bats for instance don't seem to hurt life, just lower your blood purity.)

#180 NIKON OFFLINE  

NIKON

    Stargunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 1,903 posts

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:31 PM

A game that has a score roll over programmed into it and also the inability to reach that roll over sounds like a major design flaw. It's like if the bug in Impossible Mission that makes beating it impossible was intentional. A game that is programmed to beat the player is the game cheating. I don't see how using the only method the game allows to beat it could be cheating.

I watched oyama's video and I don't see anything in it that I would consider cheating. It looks like he is playing defensively instead of offensively. If the scroll is controlled by the player then you can sit and wait as long as you want or move forward as quickly as you want. If that freedom of control wasn't meant to be used then why is it there and why wasn't it programmed like Zaxxon or have a timer like Super Mario Bros.? I don't see how it could be cheating to use a sitting and waiting defensive strategy instead of a moving forward as quickly as possible offensive strategy. The same with flying and walking. You can fly and walk as much as you want. Part of oyama's defensive strategy is in the manual,"Duck behind pyramids and obelisks to save yourself and lure enemies into crashing." I think interpreting rule #6 to mean that you are not allowed to use the only strategy possible to beat the game and you must allow the game to beat you is too strict of an interpretation. It isn't using an easy method to roll the score. It is using the only method to roll the score. I can understand how he broke rule #5 but I don't get how he broke #6.

Below is Classic Game Room's Review. In it he describes something similar to oyama's method of playing: "I love the fact that you can land your bird and hop along the ground like a pigeon and shoot things. In fact, I found that to be the most effective way to rid the screen of enemies. Because while this game is not terrible, it's actually a very interesting game. It's extremely difficult to tell how far off the ground the enemies are when they are coming at you. In Zaxxon I never really had that problem. In this game you're shooting at something, you think you are going to hit it, and then it just flies right into you. So, leveling the playing field bringing everything onto the ground into a two dimensional environment kinda helped. Also, it eliminated the problem of flying into stuff because if your bird touches anything it dies." That makes sense to me and combining that with what oyama was trying to show could be a clip from How To Beat Home Video Games. The strict interpretation of rule #6 is more like How To Get Beat By Home Video Games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQwPnLYcVh4


I am sorry...what round of season 6 did you play in???

I am not going to explain this any further...there is enough written about this that you can draw your own conclusions...but we who participated in this round have a legit beef.

#181 Stan OFFLINE  

Stan

    River Patroller

  • 3,518 posts
  • 世嘉电子智能机好极了!
  • Location:Volcan Rock

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:47 PM

A game that has a score roll over programmed into it and also the inability to reach that roll over sounds like a major design flaw. It's like if the bug in Impossible Mission that makes beating it impossible was intentional. A game that is programmed to beat the player is the game cheating. I don't see how using the only method the game allows to beat it could be cheating.


This may, in fact, be the stupidest thing I ever read, especially the last part. Very easy explanation for this. Some games, yes, it's a glitch, and the game is unbeatable, and that's it. Others, like RC Pro-Am, an example I used earlier, are in fact programmed to beat the player eventually. Why? Because it's easier to program it like that, and they really didn't care. Technically, you can roll that game, but it's literally impossible without cheating. That doesn't mean you should cheat to do it! It means you play until it's no longer humanly possible to advance, and that's your score. Done.

#182 Schizophretard OFFLINE  

Schizophretard

    Quadrunner

  • 5,038 posts

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:53 PM

I am sorry...what round of season 6 did you play in???

I am not going to explain this any further...there is enough written about this that you can draw your own conclusions...but we who participated in this round have a legit beef.


Does the audience of a sports event have a legit beef on what takes place in a sports event?

#183 Stan OFFLINE  

Stan

    River Patroller

  • 3,518 posts
  • 世嘉电子智能机好极了!
  • Location:Volcan Rock

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:00 PM

Does the audience of a sports event have a legit beef on what takes place in a sports event?


No, but the athletes would if they were participating it. No problem guys, yep, just let the guy with the cyborg arms go up for bat. What? Seriously why are you even arguing this? Oyama was clearly in the wrong. Are you him in reality or something? Seriously.

#184 Gorfy OFFLINE  

Gorfy

    River Patroller

  • 3,170 posts
  • Location:Cleveland, OH

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:09 PM

This may, in fact, be the stupidest thing I ever read, especially the last part. Very easy explanation for this. Some games, yes, it's a glitch, and the game is unbeatable, and that's it. Others, like RC Pro-Am, an example I used earlier, are in fact programmed to beat the player eventually. Why? Because it's easier to program it like that, and they really didn't care. Technically, you can roll that game, but it's literally impossible without cheating. That doesn't mean you should cheat to do it! It means you play until it's no longer humanly possible to advance, and that's your score. Done.


Hey Stan, I think you may have misunderstood what Schizophretard was saying. His point was that some games are virtually impossible to play without using a sit and shoot technique that would be considered point scumming in the context of a different game. A great example is the game WABBIT, which you did so well in a couple weeks ago. In that game, you get down to the last rabbit and the only thing you can do is continue to sit on it and shoot each one that returns. The only alternative is just to die on purpose, but who plays games that way?

I think Oyama is probably guilty of using cheats like save states, etc., but I don't think we can use the point scumming argument in the case of Desert Falcon.

#185 Stan OFFLINE  

Stan

    River Patroller

  • 3,518 posts
  • 世嘉电子智能机好极了!
  • Location:Volcan Rock

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:34 PM

Hey Stan, I think you may have misunderstood what Schizophretard was saying. His point was that some games are virtually impossible to play without using a sit and shoot technique that would be considered point scumming in the context of a different game. A great example is the game WABBIT, which you did so well in a couple weeks ago. In that game, you get down to the last rabbit and the only thing you can do is continue to sit on it and shoot each one that returns. The only alternative is just to die on purpose, but who plays games that way?

I think Oyama is probably guilty of using cheats like save states, etc., but I don't think we can use the point scumming argument in the case of Desert Falcon.


Admittedly, I'm not familiar with the game, just going by what I've read. Wabbit isn't really point scumming, though. Scumming is when you manipulate game mechanics in some way that's easy. Wabbit does not stay easy for long and I was lucky I held out until 1000. Wouldn't really call that scumming, it's just how you have to play it, unlike killing that one spaceship in Asteroids continuously while leaving an asteroid floating around. That's scumming. Killing the buns is just what the game is, but you're always left with only one.

#186 Gorfy OFFLINE  

Gorfy

    River Patroller

  • 3,170 posts
  • Location:Cleveland, OH

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:47 PM

Admittedly, I'm not familiar with the game, just going by what I've read. Wabbit isn't really point scumming, though. Scumming is when you manipulate game mechanics in some way that's easy. Wabbit does not stay easy for long and I was lucky I held out until 1000. Wouldn't really call that scumming, it's just how you have to play it, unlike killing that one spaceship in Asteroids continuously while leaving an asteroid floating around. That's scumming. Killing the buns is just what the game is, but you're always left with only one.


Right, I agree. The point I was trying to make is that Desert Falcon is similar to Wabbit in that success is contingent upon periods of just sitting and shooting. It can be argued that the game forces one to use this strategy if one wishes to be successful and continue playing. In Asteroids, you can continue to play successfully without sitting on the UFO's. It doesn't force you to point scum.

#187 Schizophretard OFFLINE  

Schizophretard

    Quadrunner

  • 5,038 posts

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:55 PM

This may, in fact, be the stupidest thing I ever read, especially the last part. Very easy explanation for this. Some games, yes, it's a glitch, and the game is unbeatable, and that's it. Others, like RC Pro-Am, an example I used earlier, are in fact programmed to beat the player eventually. Why? Because it's easier to program it like that, and they really didn't care. Technically, you can roll that game, but it's literally impossible without cheating. That doesn't mean you should cheat to do it! It means you play until it's no longer humanly possible to advance, and that's your score. Done.


I'm sorry that it may be the stupidest thing you ever read. I have very limited control over my intelligence and my opinions. If I ever gain control over those things then I promise to be a genius with only correct opinions.

I never claimed one should cheat to beat a game. I just disagree with what qualifies as cheating.

#188 Schizophretard OFFLINE  

Schizophretard

    Quadrunner

  • 5,038 posts

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:13 PM

No, but the athletes would if they were participating it. No problem guys, yep, just let the guy with the cyborg arms go up for bat. What? Seriously why are you even arguing this? Oyama was clearly in the wrong. Are you him in reality or something? Seriously.


I'm not arguing. I'm having a friendly debate. If I was arguing then I would probably use personal attacks, get angry, or something like that. I'm doing it because I find it interesting. Also, it is possible that in the future I may join this club so I should figure all this out now.

As far as I know I'm not oyama. I'm not defending oyama. I'm focusing on the topic itself and not trying to make it about oyama. He just happens to be a part of the topic.

#189 darthkur OFFLINE  

darthkur

    River Patroller

  • 4,444 posts
  • Traveler in time
  • Location:Western North Carolina

Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:24 AM

So...........................is this HSC dead or what? Can't everyone just move beyond this past debacle and have fun again?

#190 Stan OFFLINE  

Stan

    River Patroller

  • 3,518 posts
  • 世嘉电子智能机好极了!
  • Location:Volcan Rock

Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:45 AM

So...........................is this HSC dead or what? Can't everyone just move beyond this past debacle and have fun again?


It's oyama again, he has so many faces I know it!

#191 Gorfy OFFLINE  

Gorfy

    River Patroller

  • 3,170 posts
  • Location:Cleveland, OH

Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:08 AM

So...........................is this HSC dead or what? Can't everyone just move beyond this past debacle and have fun again?


Jacob said the next season of the 7800 HSC would start in March.

#192 darthkur OFFLINE  

darthkur

    River Patroller

  • 4,444 posts
  • Traveler in time
  • Location:Western North Carolina

Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:00 AM

It's oyama again, he has so many faces I know it!


Hardly. I've been a member here since 06. Just haven't been round in a while. In fact I used to run the 7800 HSC.


Jacob said the next season of the 7800 HSC would start in March.


Ok. Thanks for the info. Looking forward to it. I can't say I'm sorry that I missed this recent mess that has apparently caused a copious amount of upset. Glad I never had something like this happen when I modded the HSC. It was stressful enough keeping up with everything normally.

#193 Stan OFFLINE  

Stan

    River Patroller

  • 3,518 posts
  • 世嘉电子智能机好极了!
  • Location:Volcan Rock

Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:03 PM

Hardly. I've been a member here since 06. Just haven't been round in a while. In fact I used to run the 7800 HSC.


Prove it with a video.

#194 darthkur OFFLINE  

darthkur

    River Patroller

  • 4,444 posts
  • Traveler in time
  • Location:Western North Carolina

Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:40 PM

Prove it with a video.


You're kidding, right? You think you might be taking this stuff a tad bit too seriously?

#195 Schizophretard OFFLINE  

Schizophretard

    Quadrunner

  • 5,038 posts

Posted Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:43 AM

Maybe I can better explain why I don't believe it is cheating to use the only possible way to win and why a game that is designed to kill you cheats you by using someone we all respect as an example. He doesn't believe in no win scenarios. ;-)

The Kobayashi Maru Argument.

#196 Stan OFFLINE  

Stan

    River Patroller

  • 3,518 posts
  • 世嘉电子智能机好极了!
  • Location:Volcan Rock

Posted Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:14 AM

You're kidding, right? You think you might be taking this stuff a tad bit too seriously?


No, but you just took me too seriously.

#197 roadrunner OFFLINE  

roadrunner

    Quadrunner

  • 12,200 posts

Posted Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:10 PM

Are you serious bro? ;)







0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users