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#301 accousticguitar OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:40 PM

Very nice! One question though. Am I supposed to die when on the pie factory level I walk on the girder just below the one Kong is standing on, right in the middle of the screen?

#302 purduecrum OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:42 PM

wow.

#303 xybot67 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:32 PM

Wow! absolutely amazing, I cant believe that I am finally playing all 4 screens on Atari 2600. You are a genius.Sign me up for a cart when available ;-)

#304 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:13 AM

Dang it dude! You couldn't have released this ROM at a worse possible time; I just spent over 4 hours packing away all my classic games because we will be remodeling the house soon... :dunce:

For some reason, I can't seem to get my usb joystick adapters to work on Stella and keyboard sucks donkey. Must have the real thing hooked up to a CRT TV. Now I will be dreaming of Donkey Kong, LOL!

I must say this is awesome that you are giving us the option of Japanese versus USA stage order. I've always prefered the linear Japanese order because I get to play through all of the stages before rescuing Pauline. I'm never good enough to beat enough loops to see the cement stage on the US version. LOL on the "one life" option. Some people must be real video game masochists to enable that option!

Edited by stardust4ever, Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:17 AM.


#305 PacManPlus OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:48 AM

Absolutely remarkable. Excellent work... You're very close, now - aren't you?

Two nitpicks (if I may):
- The Cement Pies on the conveyor belt are too close together (I'm sure that's probably because of the 2600's Sprite repitition). You can't jump in between them like you can in the arcade.
- On the arcade, I used to jump from the bottom platform (i.e. where you start) on to the rising elevator. You can't seem to do that here, as you jump past it no matter what you do.

Thanks for listening, and again - excellent work!
Bob

#306 RevEng OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:01 AM

I'm late to the party, but WOW! :-o

That is all.

#307 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:37 PM

Thanks all for the feedback!

Very nice! One question though. Am I supposed to die when on the pie factory level I walk on the girder just below the one Kong is standing on, right in the middle of the screen?


Yes, that is intentional. When you turn off the enemy collision in MAME and try to walk on the oil barrel, Mario will fall through. Of course, in a normal game that never happens because he gets burned by the fire. Since I cannot display the fire all the time, I kept the gap. This retains the basic arcade behavior that Mario dies when the conveyor transports him to the middle of the screen.

Absolutely remarkable. Excellent work... You're very close, now - aren't you?


There's still quite some things on my wishlist: :)
  • Hammer.
  • Progressive difficulty.
  • Bounding box collsion check.
  • Pauline's items.
  • Moving ladders in the cement factory.
  • Multiple elevators.
  • Attract mode with (short) demo play.
  • Higher elevator stage.
  • (Sloped girders, maybe)
But I'm running out of ROM space. We will see what makes it in.

Two nitpicks (if I may):
- The Cement Pies on the conveyor belt are too close together (I'm sure that's probably because of the 2600's Sprite repitition). You can't jump in between them like you can in the arcade.


The RNG can select three possible spacings (near, medium, far). Medium and far seem on be in line with the arcade. It's true that the near spacing is not. I left it to make the stage a bit more difficult. When Mario encounters the close pies he has to get off the conveyor.

If this is irritating I could also make this only happen in the higher levels as part of the difficulty progression.

- On the arcade, I used to jump from the bottom platform (i.e. where you start) on to the rising elevator. You can't seem to do that here, as you jump past it no matter what you do.


This is possible, but you have to wait until the elevator is at about the same height as the girder Mario is standing on. What might make it difficult is that you can only run for a very short time, it works best when jumping right from where Mario appears.

I agree though, that Mario jumps too far. This will probably change soon. Then it should feel more like the arcade.

#308 roryjr OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:15 PM

I agree with the jumping at the beginning of the elevators.. Once I figured it out, it was easy. I just went to the second platform and waited till the elevator was right beside me and made it every time. On the down side, just jump while the elevator is a little above you. Done from the top, it makes it easy to completely avoid the bottom. The springs on this board should also have 3 different paths. In the arcade, you needed to get to that platform and watch the pattern. Then run as the right spring goes over your head.

Only one thing on the rivets board. I immediately went to the left and met a fireball on the top of the ladder. They generally are only supposed to come out on the opposite side of the board. This only happened when I immediately went up. When I waited a second it worked properly.

I assume progressive difficulty will result in more than one barrel per level? It makes it very easy right now that I know the programming limitations and that neither a barrel or a fireball will drop down on me as long as there is one already on that level. Although the fireballs on the rivets stage sure seemed to try once or twice. It was really cool when I jumped a fireball and a rivet at the same time. The rivet did not get stuck, but it was also not exactly over the hole either.

Bottom line:

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE !!! AWESOME !!

#309 NE146 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:29 PM

I love how it has the falling animation once you clear the rivets and the ENDING MUSIC. Finally some closure in the 2600 game and you can defeat Kong! Did you do the music by yourself? Because it's pretty much spot on by VCS standards.. do you have any musical training? :) And by chance, does it have the 2nd victory song in there as well or is that asking for too much? :lol:

I also dig the fact that you can choose the Jap & US level progression.. very nice touch.

Only one thing on the rivets board. I immediately went to the left and met a fireball on the top of the ladder. They generally are only supposed to come out on the opposite side of the board. This only happened when I immediately went up. When I waited a second it worked properly.


True this. Although I guess they just stay on the same level all the time (like the coleco version) so maybe it's a wash. I don't know if that will change in future iterations though.

Edited by NE146, Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 PM.


#310 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:26 PM

The springs on this board should also have 3 different paths. In the arcade, you needed to get to that platform and watch the pattern. Then run as the right spring goes over your head.


As far as I understand it, the arcade version randomly offsets the paths in X-direction. In higher levels, when the frequency goes up, this has the effect that the distance between two springs varies and you'll have to wait until it is big enough.

I cannot shift the paths horizontally, because the spring cannot jump as high as in the arcade. If I do so they would go right through Mario's face when he is standing on the top ladder. What I can do, however, is just to increase the frequency springs appear as L goes up.

Only one thing on the rivets board. I immediately went to the left and met a fireball on the top of the ladder. They generally are only supposed to come out on the opposite side of the board. This only happened when I immediately went up. When I waited a second it worked properly.


Thanks for pointing that out! I completely missed that, even though it's mentioned in some strategy guides. Currently it's random and a flame can appear on either side. I'm going to change that. It may still be an option to make the game more difficult in higher levels by allowing a flame to appear on the side where Mario stands.

I assume progressive difficulty will result in more than one barrel per level?


I'm affraid there can only be one enemy per floor. I can only make them faster and more aggressive. If the barrels are twice as fast as they are now, it becomes already almost impossible to get to the top.

#311 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:32 PM

And by chance, does it have the 2nd victory song in there as well or is that asking for too much? :lol:


There are already two ending tunes. They are alternating. You'll have to train more so you can see the ending twice. :)

True this. Although I guess they just stay on the same level all the time (like the coleco version) so maybe it's a wash. I don't know if that will change in future iterations though.


In the future I may add the capability that fireballs can move to floors that are empty, but only if there's space left for that.

#312 NE146 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:46 PM

Thanks for pointing that out! I completely missed that, even though it's mentioned in some strategy guides. Currently it's random and a flame can appear on either side. I'm going to change that. It may still be an option to make the game more difficult in higher levels by allowing a flame to appear on the side where Mario stands.


On that note too on the pie stage, the fireballs in the arcade version come out on on the side Mario is ON. Don't know if that would make any difference in this version, but in the arcade you would use that to your advantage by not moving in the beginning of the stage so all the fireballs would jump out to the left.. then you simply run to the right side.

#313 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:57 PM

One question: Why do the ladders have priority over Mario? This looks a bit odd.

EDIT#1: Got the answer myself: Flicker is causing that.

EDIT#2: I think you could (slightly) reduce the effect by filling the currently all blank lines of the sprites with black pixel. This should e.g. help with Mario's hat and neck.

BTW: Are you German?

Edited by Thomas Jentzsch, Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:25 PM.


#314 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:35 PM

And I think it would make testing easier (especially for people dying frequently like me :)) if you could skip/abort the intermissions.

#315 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:15 PM

On that note too on the pie stage, the fireballs in the arcade version come out on on the side Mario is ON. Don't know if that would make any difference in this version, but in the arcade you would use that to your advantage by not moving in the beginning of the stage so all the fireballs would jump out to the left.. then you simply run to the right side.


Ah, didn't know that. Just tried in MAME. Thanks!

I can make it so that the fireball comes down the ladder on the side where Mario is (after a delay). Right now it's always the left ladder. The fireball has to stay on on the middle girder section, because it cannot cross the conveyor, which is occupied by the cement.

#316 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:17 PM

EDIT#1: Got the answer myself: Flicker is causing that.


Genau!

EDIT#2: I think you could (slightly) reduce the effect by filling the currently all blank lines of the sprites with black pixel. This should e.g. help with Mario's hat and neck.


Gute Idee! Das wäre einen Versuch wert.

Edited by Joe Musashi, Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:17 PM.


#317 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:19 PM

And I think it would make testing easier (especially for people dying frequently like me :)) if you could skip/abort the intermissions.


Good idea. I'll add that ( tomorrow :) ).

#318 roryjr OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:47 PM

As far as I understand it, the arcade version randomly offsets the paths in X-direction. In higher levels, when the frequency goes up, this has the effect that the distance between two springs varies and you'll have to wait until it is big enough.

I cannot shift the paths horizontally, because the spring cannot jump as high as in the arcade. If I do so they would go right through Mario's face when he is standing on the top ladder. What I can do, however, is just to increase the frequency springs appear as L goes up.





I'm going to disagree with you there. There were 3 different paths for the springs (they jumped different lengths but the pattern was set). You were still completely safe in the same place you have us safe (the top of the ladder). What you had to do was watch where the springs landed in relation to the ladder to Pauline. When the spring landed just to the left of the bottom of Pauline's ladder, you would run as that spring went over your head and you would just make it with the next spring almost getting you on the butt as you mounted the level next to Pauline.

Now if any of this discourages you from continuing this project, then disregard. I love it so far!!

#319 Brian O OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:29 PM

Game looks incredible.

-B

#320 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:13 AM

Gute Idee! Das wäre einen Versuch wert.

Natürlich nur Pixel, die in dem jeweils anderen Frame auch an sind. Aber das war dir höchstwahrscheinlich eh klar, oder?

#321 Gemintronic ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:59 AM

Natürlich nur Pixel, die in dem jeweils anderen Frame auch an sind. Aber das war dir höchstwahrscheinlich eh klar, oder?


For those who don't speak Esperanto:

"Nuture yer Pixel, die in them jewels and then Frame ouch an sin. After that, war with Höchstwahrsche and lick Claire over?"

#322 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:21 AM

For those who don't speak Esperanto:

"Nuture yer Pixel, die in them jewels and then Frame ouch an sin. After that, war with Höchstwahrsche and lick Claire over?"

Perfect! :thumbsup:

#323 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:34 PM

I'm going to disagree with you there. There were 3 different paths for the springs (they jumped different lengths but the pattern was set). You were still completely safe in the same place you have us safe (the top of the ladder). What you had to do was watch where the springs landed in relation to the ladder to Pauline. When the spring landed just to the left of the bottom of Pauline's ladder, you would run as that spring went over your head and you would just make it with the next spring almost getting you on the butt as you mounted the level next to Pauline.


Ok, I'll make some more videos with MAME and have a closer look. If the jump length varies, I'll implement that.

Now if any of this discourages you from continuing this project, then disregard. I love it so far!!


No problem. I appreciate all comments. I want to make this as accurate as possible, but it's still on the 2600 and there'll always be tradeoffs.

#324 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:41 PM

And I think it would make testing easier (especially for people dying frequently like me :)) if you could skip/abort the intermissions.


Here's something for the impatient. :)

The first version let's you skip the 'How High' screen by pressing fire. The second one also makes Mario invincible (disables enemy collision, he can still die when falling.)

Attached Files



#325 tep392 ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:10 PM

Ok, I'll make some more videos with MAME and have a closer look. If the jump length varies, I'll implement that.



No problem. I appreciate all comments. I want to make this as accurate as possible, but it's still on the 2600 and there'll always be tradeoffs.


From my inspection of the code, I believe the jump length and height is a constant. Just a single table is used to define the path. What changes is the starting x position of the first jump as it comes out the left side of the screen. It's a random value from -8 to 7. The rate at which they are spawned increases with each level. Level 5 and above are the same as level 4.

Regards,
Perry




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