Another World Jaguar Pre-Order

[kevincal]

It would be nice if Jag releases weren't always so limited and impossible to obtain after such a short time (and overvalued in such a short time). Kudos to SONGBIRD for actually making his games always available. Skyhammer, Hyperforce, etc.

[JagChris]

Another World CD version dammit! Come on! Who wants this? You know you all do! You know you know!

[NinSEGA]

It would be nice if Jag releases weren't always so limited and impossible to obtain after such a short time (and overvalued in such a short time). Kudos to SONGBIRD for actually making his games always available. Skyhammer, Hyperforce, etc.

^This. So much this.

 

You guys complain about scalpers, well, one way to deter scalping is to always make your product available so that supply MEETS demand.

[Orion_]

Another World CD version dammit! Come on! Who wants this? You know you all do! You know you know!

we already discussed this, the way the game is made is not suitable for cd.

imagine playing and sudendly in the middle of an action, the game pause and the cd starts loading...

and this cannot be changed easilly as Another World rely on a virtual machine running code made by the original author, and the loading occurs inside this custom code.

 

NinSEGA & kevincal > do you have unlimited money to produce 1000 cartridges ? I guess no.

cartridges is so much expensive and hard to make, really.

do you really thing that we are making small quantity on purpose ?!

if it was that easy to produce, we'd do it.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Orion_

[kevincal]

I just get the feeling many are purposely making new Jag releases limited since Battlesphere starting going crazy 10 years ago on ebay... It gives more prestige and value to a game if its rare and valuable and I think a lot of homebrewers are taking advantage of this. They want their effort to become rare and valuable, sought after. I can think of so many Jag releases since Battlesphere that are near impossible to obtain and sell for far too much on ebay, yet more copies can probably easily be made. I will start with Battlesphere, why haven't new copies been made in the last 10 years? How ridiculous is that? Obviously there is huge interest and demand for the game. Its simply cus the guy/people who made it would rather the game be a holy grail, rare, desireable, than more common and easily available to purchase at any time for a more reasonable price, like $150. That kinda irks me........ Too many Jag games are just too rare and expensive when they don't have to be.

[Rick Dangerous]

I just get the feeling many are purposely making new Jag releases limited since Battlesphere starting going crazy 10 years ago on ebay... It gives more prestige and value to a game if its rare and valuable and I think a lot of homebrewers are taking advantage of this. They want their effort to become rare and valuable, sought after. I can think of so many Jag releases since Battlesphere that are near impossible to obtain and sell for far too much on ebay, yet more copies can probably easily be made. I will start with Battlesphere, why haven't new copies been made in the last 10 years? How ridiculous is that? Obviously there is huge interest and demand for the game. Its simply cus the guy/people who made it would rather the game be a holy grail, rare, desireable, than more common and easily available to purchase at any time for a more reasonable price, like $150. That kinda irks me........ Too many Jag games are just too rare and expensive when they don't have to be.

 

I get where you are coming from but I don't think it's the case. Like Orion said, it's just a big investment on the part of the developer to produce carts. If he made 300 copies of Philia on cart, it would be massively expensive, let alone the task of tracking down all the components to build the carts. So when homebrewers make limited cart runs, they do it for fun, and if you can snag one, consider yourself lucky. The demand is there, the supply simply isn't (for non-malevolent reasons,) hence the high prices.

 

Beyond people enjoying carts as a medium, I believe there are programming limitations on the jaguar (regarding the RAM?) that make it necessary for certain types of games to be on cartridge, and not on CD.

 

Believe me, as a Jag CD owner I'm right there with you. I wish everything was on Jag CD and cost $30-$40 bucks and was widely available. But I do understand where the developers are coming from on this one, and I don't think its about prestige or manipulating the market in any way. It must be hard enough for some of these folks to just scrape together 50 carts to do a run..

[Zerosquare]

I just get the feeling many are purposely making new Jag releases limited since Battlesphere starting going crazy 10 years ago on ebay... It gives more prestige and value to a game if its rare and valuable and I think a lot of homebrewers are taking advantage of this.

I get the feeling you have no idea on what you're talking about.

[racerx]

I will start with Battlesphere, why haven't new copies been made in the last 10 years? How ridiculous is that? Obviously there is huge interest and demand for the game. Its simply cus the guy/people who made it would rather the game be a holy grail, rare, desireable, than more common and easily available to purchase at any time for a more reasonable price, like $150. That kinda irks me........ Too many Jag games are just too rare and expensive when they don't have to be.

 

See, I just don't understand this line of thought. Like, at all.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a Ferrari 250 GTO or a Pinto...the production is done. Finished. You either pay the going rate or you don't, but Ferrari isn't going to make any more GTOs and Ford isn't going to make any more Pintos. I guarantee the demand is there for more GTOs. Or upside-down airplane postage stamps. Or G1 Transformers. Or Wurlitzer bubbler jukeboxes.

 

The game came out. You either got one while the getting was good or you didn't. Pay the going rate for an example or move on.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

See, I just don't understand this line of thought. Like, at all.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a Ferrari 250 GTO or a Pinto...the production is done. Finished. You either pay the going rate or you don't, but Ferrari isn't going to make any more GTOs and Ford isn't going to make any more Pintos. I guarantee the demand is there for more GTOs. Or upside-down airplane postage stamps. Or G1 Transformers. Or Wurlitzer bubbler jukeboxes.

 

The game came out. You either got one while the getting was good or you didn't. Pay the going rate for an example or move on.

 

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment, the examples you gave are non-trivial to recreate/get back into production, while something like a Battlesphere or almost any other computer or videogame are easily reproduced. In many ways, it really is an artificially created limitation.

[racerx]

Is it? Every game was produced for a certain time, in a certain quantity, by a certain group of developers, for a certain company. It isn't up to some jilted collector to decide if more copies should be made or how easy it would be.

 

I don't see physical copies of any game for any obsolete platform being remanufactured just because there's some small demand.

Edited August 1, 2014 by racerx

[kevincal]

I don't see physical copies of any game for any obsolete platform being remanufactured just because there's some small demand.

 

 

Wow really how clueless are some of you? Tell me many Jag cart games are not being reproduced and ALWAYS available in the last 10+ years? HMM LETS SEE:

 

Protector, Protector SE, HyperForce, Skyhammer, Soccer Kid, Phase Zero, Brett Hull Hockey, Arena Football, Iron Soldier 2, Towers II, BreaKout 2000, AirCars, Zero 5, Worms, SpaceWar 2000, Barkley Shut Up and Make More Carts,

 

If you guys have problems making enough carts, then why haven't you contacted Songbird and or B&C and or Telegames to help you out?!!?!?!?!?!! Or hell even the Jaguar community? I think its more a case you just don't want to bother with another run and you like that your creation is a bit limited and increasing in value (Mostly I feel this is the case with Battlesphere..)... I don't totally blame you but still... Many of the games released for the Jag in the last 10 years shouldn't be nearly as rare or valuable as they are.

 

Its just a slap in the face to many of us who cant afford sometimes to buy the newest release right when it comes out, because they almost always come out without warning, but then some weeks or months later we then can afford it, its totally gone by then. It sucks.

 

So again I will say thanks to Carl Forhan and Bruce at B&C for their solid efforts in the last decade to pretty much always have their games available for purchase!!! They rock for that. Even Telegames is pretty good about making up new batches in a timely manner....

Edited August 1, 2014 by kevincal

[+madman]

If you guys have problems making enough carts, then why haven't you contacted Songbird and or B&C and or Telegames to help you out?!!?!?!?!?!! Or hell even the Jaguar community? I think its more a case you just don't want to bother with another run and you like that your creation is a bit limited and increasing in value... I don't totally blame you but still... Many of the games released for the Jag in the last 10 years shouldn't be nearly as rare or valuable as they are.

Wow, just wow. Way to shit on the guys that work hard to create new games for the Jaguar community. Why don't you create your own game and do a run of 1,000 carts if it's so easy?

[Albert]

*Cough*

 

Please keep this civil.

[kevincal]

Wow, just wow. Way to shit on the guys that work hard to create new games for the Jaguar community. Why don't you create your own game and do a run of 1,000 carts if it's so easy?

 

Funny how you guys like to jump from the number 200 to 1000. blowing things out of proportion. If it were 400 instead of 200 that would be a lot better. Since there are probably much less than 1000 hardcore Jag fans out there that would pay 100 bucks for a new cart game, the number is probably closer to 500 of us. So obviously a run of 200 isn't enough. I bet both Battlesphere and BSG were also runs of 200 or 300.

 

Throughout history the big companies like Sega Sony Nintendo also do the same thing to hype up their new products. Always saying numbers at launch are limited (when they could probably easily make more or DO have more and are just waiting months to release the 2nd batch..). Ya sure, because that sparks frenzy and people feeling the need to buy it right away or else it would never be had! Also when someone is selling something and says its limited, it helps a lot to sell it when the price is rather high. Im just saying its a classic sales tactic "HURRY IN, LIMITED TIME OFFER ONLY!!!!" Ya... I know all about sales trust me.

[+madman]

 

Throughout history the big companies like Sega Sony Nintendo also do the same thing to hype up their new products. Always saying numbers at launch are limited (when they could probably easily make more or DO have more and are just waiting months to release the 2nd batch..). Ya sure, because that sparks frenzy and people feeling the need to buy it right away or else it would never be had! Also when someone is selling something and says its limited, it helps a lot to sell it when the price is rather high. Im just saying its a classic sales tactic "HURRY IN, LIMITED TIME OFFER ONLY!!!!" Ya... I know all about sales trust me.

Now you're comparing people who homebrew for dead video game consoles to Nintendo and Sony?

[Zerosquare]

Put your money where your mouth is. The next time someone plans to release an homebrew cartridge game, give them enough money to manufacture 400 carts immediately, and spend your weekends programming them, folding cardboard, sending boxes, etc. for free.

 

If you can't do that, I don't see why we should have to listen to your rants.

[racerx]

 

 

Wow really how clueless are some of you? Tell me many Jag cart games are not being reproduced and ALWAYS available in the last 10+ years? HMM LETS SEE:

 

Protector, Protector SE, HyperForce, Skyhammer, Soccer Kid, Phase Zero, Brett Hull Hockey, Arena Football, Iron Soldier 2, Towers II, BreaKout 2000, AirCars, Zero 5, Worms, SpaceWar 2000, Barkley Shut Up and Make More Carts,...

 

Its just a slap in the face to many of us who cant afford sometimes to buy the newest release right when it comes out, because they almost always come out without warning, but then some weeks or months later we then can afford it, its totally gone by then. It sucks.

 

None of those has ever ceased "production," and the rights to them were scooped up early on.

 

To continue my automotive analogy, VW produced the original Beetle for 65 years. But now they don't, and you can't get one, unless you pay market price for a used one. See how that works? Stomp your foot in a tantrum all you want. It's just the way it is. I missed out on Mad Bodies, Painter, and a lot of the JSII stuff. No one owes me a copy of any of that.

 

 

Funny how you guys like to jump from the number 200 to 1000. blowing things out of proportion. If it were 400 instead of 200 that would be a lot better. Since there are probably much less than 1000 hardcore Jag fans out there that would pay 100 bucks for a new cart game, the number is probably closer to 500 of us.

 

Yeah, and then the 501st person would bitch and moan about how there aren't enough copies.

 

Bruce and Carl, and to a lesser extent Telegames are anomalies. They should be appreciated for what they are, but they aren't the norm. You aren't going to find newly produced copies of Radiant Silvergun, or Stadium Events, or Virtual Bowling. They came, they went, and they're gone.

[+CyranoJ]

You seem to forget that in order to mitigate the limited supply (caused mostly by production costs) that most home brews are also released for free downloads.

 

You should consider yourself lucky that you can get the game for free instead of bitching about limited supply and slapping the developers in the face with attitude.

[SuperDork3000]

Songbird Productions,Telegames and B&C are proof that new Jaguar carts can be made steadily available. Scatologic and others could easily subcontract one of those 3 companies to make more copies of their games, but they don't and that's unfortunate. Their are many excuses why they don't, like quality assurance and whatnot, but most likely comes down to money and greed that's stopping them from doing it.

 

I'd say it would be better to make a little less money on your game by subcontracting out, then to make no money at all.

 

It's really a shame.

[+CyranoJ]

LOL, there is no money to be made from the games. Unless you go down the gouge route.

 

There is an unhealthy amount of delusion in this thread.

 

 

I'd say it would be better to make a little less money on your game by subcontracting out, then to make no money at all.

 

[SuperDork3000]

LOL, there is no money to be made from the games. Unless you go down the gouge route.

 

There is an unhealthy amount of delusion in this thread.

 

 

So Songbird, Telegames and B&C isn't making a penny on each Jaguar game they sell? Their just doing it because they're nice people? Come on man...

[+madman]

Put your money where your mouth is. The next time someone plans to release an homebrew cartridge game, give them enough money to manufacture 400 carts immediately, and spend your weekends programming them, folding cardboard, sending boxes, etc. for free.

 

If you can't do that, I don't see why we should have to listen to your rants.

The ironic thing is part of his complaint is that he doesn't have enough money to order one of these carts when they're released. But he's upset home brewers don't have the money to make 200-400 carts. No logic with him, just complaints.

Edited August 2, 2014 by madman

[NeoGeoNinja]

As has been said, individuals like Carl still avidly supporting the Jaguar are anomalies. But, from the standpoint of the average consumer, such as myself, it's sometimes difficult to understand (for example) why individuals go to the efforts of developing a title throughout, have the PCB's/Chips created, create the artwork, have the necessary materials produced, and only produce 100-200 of them FULL STOP, ever (vs the amount of effort) whilst other titles are constantly available via Songbird, for example. The devs/producers obviously just risk manage the production down to 200 and take a 'once we've sold 200, that's that and we're happy with our take home'. Which makes sense, but...

 

Why can't such titles be subcontracted out for continuous production, much like music and films are to new mediums, whilst giving the original devs a continuous percentage cut for the original dev/design material used.

 

For example, with the forthcoming Rebooteroids, why can't we have an initial run of 200x L.E.s direct from Reboot themselves, and then offer up the IP for a fee for someone like Carl to handle for continuous cart production whilst giving Reboot a continuous percentage thereon? Same goes for any further production of Another World after the upcoming 2nd Run.

 

Before the word 'ignorance' gets banded about unfavourably in my direction, I'm just putting that perspective out there, as I'm sure the non-dev folk, who are simply (literally simple-minded) just consumers don't think dis-similarly.

 

Just to clarify, I'm in no way meaning any disrespect to any current Jag devs who take exception to what I've mentioned here. I've tried to word the matter in as respectful manner as possible (without getting it proofread by a psychologist for inconsistency!) and am not trying to bring a barrage of pain down upon myself. Just likewise respectful discussion.

[JagChris]

we already discussed this, the way the game is made is not suitable for cd.

 

 

No 'we' didn't discuss it. I discussed it with SebRMV.

[+madman]

Songbird Productions,Telegames and B&C are proof that new Jaguar carts can be made steadily available. Scatologic and others could easily subcontract one of those 3 companies to make more copies of their games, but they don't and that's unfortunate. Their are many excuses why they don't, like quality assurance and whatnot, but most likely comes down to money and greed that's stopping them from doing it.

 

I'd say it would be better to make a little less money on your game by subcontracting out, then to make no money at all.

 

It's really a shame.

I don't know what your development background is, but I suspect it is very limited. Most folks who do homebrew development do it as a hobby in their free time for the fun of it. They're not corporations out for profit. To say that homebrewers develop a game for a dead system like the Jaguar for money and greed is ridiculous. In the 90s I was very big into the console dev scene and we never did anything for money, it was for the fun of it. None of us made money on anything we wrote and we didn't care.

 

In my opinion it's very generous that homebrewers today spend their time and money to not only develop a full game, but to make a cartridge release available that rivals those of the original Jag games. If I miss out on a game, so be it, but I don't think any of these developers are "greedy". If they are motivated by greed, developing games for the Atari Jaguar is not the best way to fulfill that desire.